Would this not technically be in breach of a bylaw and place you at risk of prosecution?
Technically yes but you'd be brave to prosecute I think!
Would this not technically be in breach of a bylaw and place you at risk of prosecution?
Perhaps you could point out the significant cost benefits you feel will be achieved be exchanging a name bagde which says 'Conductor' for one which says 'OBS'?
Alternatively, perhaps you might like to consider how much has been spent attempting to batter staff into submission, on court cases, on the PR propaganda war and on everything else, and then have a think about whether it would have been worth all of that if the only intention was to let Drivers 'do the doors'. There is an end game here. It really isn't difficult to see it. The 'conspiracy' is the repeated refusal to admit that the cost savings are going to come from destaffing the railway.
Politicians abstain from voting when they disagree with the government but don't want to publicly do so.The 24hr booking system makes a mockery of everything done to offer equality between Disabled and Non-Disabled passengers. Where I am you currently have a situation where a Disabled user can use the train virtually like any other passengers, turn up and go, with the Guard always being there to enable this. The only exception to this is for wheelchair users where travel is to or from the few stations where infrastructure like lifts and ramps to avoid step aren't provided. Even in those cases where the destination is the problem though it is the Guard who normally liaises with the Disabled passenger and control to make alternative arrangements. To take away this existing provision from these passengers, forcing a system where people, some of whom commute to and from work every day in a wheelchair, will now have to book specific trains 24hrs in advance for every day, even then without an absolute guarantee of being able to travel on their desired train, is completely against the spirit of what the DDA/Equalities Act tries to achieve.
Given the lengths many industries/companies/businesses have had to go to comply with the DDA/Equalities Act, with serious money being involved, it would seem ridiculous that the railway can seriously reduce its provision to Disabled passengers...
This ignores the circumstances of the second vote though. I appreciate that various people have played up that 'only' 54% voted no, but to me it ignores the real significance of ASLEF members having to vote no against the recommendation of ASLEF. Where I am the Drivers voting against something recommended and supported by ASLEF would be considered incredible! Going by what Drivers are saying where I am, the main reason they'd have voted yes to accept that deal (the majority wouldn't have anyway) was not because they supported the deal, but largely because that was what ASLEF recommended. I think this is also why the turnout was lower this time around, as not voting avoided voting against ASLEF's recommendation... As such, I wouldn't underestimate the continued feeling against this deal/DOO.
I think you need to get a TV camera crew with you to make a documentary. You couldn't do every day live as they might make an effort just for TV.Even on trains with guards, booking in advance makes scant assurance that assistance will be available. I book my weekly commuting journeys on a Saturday for the following week. This week there was no assistance on Wednesday, Thursday and today and I was helped onto the train by another passenger each time. This isn't that unusual and last week I had to get myself and my wheelchair off the train to avoid being carried back the way I'd come. If the situation is like this now with guards on the train, I dread to think what it's going to be like once they've gone.
Unfortunately they didn't stick the disabled space by the drivers cab. Now you might say they were stupid idiots for not doing so when they designed the rolling stock. However that is with hindsight.In Berlin on the U-Bahn(5 minute headway, stops every 1-2 minutes) and the S-Bahn(5-10 minute headway, stops every 2-3 minutes in the centre), they load and unload wheelchairs every day without station staff or a conductor.
The wheelchair user waits by the front cab door. The driver sees them, then while people are getting on and off he sets up the ramp stored on the platform adjacent to the first passenger door, and the wheelchair goes on. Then he puts the ramp back and off the train goes. This video shows the procedure : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olyphv8lEGY
They can also do DOO dispatch from the platform on the S-Bahn. In the cab there is a microphone on a long cord. The driver stands on the platform, announces he is closing the doors, presses a button on the microphone to trigger the door closure, and then gets back in the cab and drives off. Safety problems solved.
So there are other options if you think outside the box a bit, and see the driver as a flexible human worker, not someone strapped into a chair. I doubt this could ever be implemented in Britain though. If ASLEF were told their members had to work harder and the in process make on train staff redundant they would go ballistic.
It was found that one law the government had written was against EU Law so the law was found to be illegal. I don't have the details of the law to hand but it highlights how a law could be ruled illegal. This occurred within the last couple of years.What case law are you talking about? Have there been any cases about disabled passengers turning up to go and their right to get on a train? AFAIK Bestwestern is correct, DOO has been in place elsewhere without any such cases.
Anyway Parliament is supreme, the judiciary may overrule the Goverment (as it has recently in the Article 50 case) but it can't overrule parliamentary law.
It really is grasping at straws to believe otherwise.
I'd love to see that go to court.Would this not technically be in breach of a bylaw and place you at risk of prosecution?
If drivers were to do the ramps, as they're leaving the cab to walk down the train, the cab would have to be shutdown and secured (The Signaller informed etc). Then load the passeenger, stow the ramp, return to the cab and set up (contact the signaller again).. and then proceed... easily several minutes added.
Of course it is about saving money! You say this as though this is a revelation of a sinister conspiracy between the DFT and the Franchise holders.
Would this not technically be in breach of a bylaw and place you at risk of prosecution?
More likely reason is that its about making sure every service that can impact on the Thameslink 2018 timetable has the most efficient possible dwell time - not that there's much chance of that timetable working anyway unless DfT has a complete rethink and recasts it as a short distance metro-style timetable.
As mentioned upthread, the uncertainty can be really stressful, especially where you are doing the journey frequently and this is on top of the usual commuting stresses
Why is all that necessary on the GB rail network but seemingly not on the Berlin U-Bahn?
Why is all that necessary on the GB rail network but seemingly not on the Berlin U-Bahn?
Why is all that necessary on the GB rail network but seemingly not on the Berlin U-Bahn?
You are trying to compare one underground system in one German city against the whole national network in the UK, surely the comparison your looking for is one national network ie Germany against one national network ie UK.
It's a hypothetical question. The disabled area isn't placed behind the driver on most British trains, and no-one is seriously suggesting that train drivers should regularly provide assistance to wheelchair users as far as I know.Well, why not explain why, if the disabled area was placed behind the driver, that the driver couldn't perform that assistance 99% of the time on the GB national network?
It's a hypothetical question. The disabled area isn't placed behind the driver on most British trains, and no-one is seriously suggesting that train drivers should regularly provide assistance to wheelchair users as far as I know.
Is it beyond the power of man to design a wheelchair which can be easily moved on and off a train by the user without assistance, or alternatively fit trains with retractable ramps which could be monitored from the cab by CCTV?
Even on trains with guards, booking in advance makes scant assurance that assistance will be available. I book my weekly commuting journeys on a Saturday for the following week. This week there was no assistance on Wednesday, Thursday and today and I was helped onto the train by another passenger each time. This isn't that unusual and last week I had to get myself and my wheelchair off the train to avoid being carried back the way I'd come. If the situation is like this now with guards on the train, I dread to think what it's going to be like once they've gone.
There is no intention to remove OBSs in the short term anyway and Southern have said this, in writing,
So where is the money saving if Southern are keep the OBS on the trains?
Fewer delay or cancellation fines from having to cancel trains if no guards are available.
Why isnt there a guard available in the first place?
Apart from the ongoing dispute on Southern when was the last strike?Could be they're on strike, or an incident somewhere has left staff in the wrong place. On the former point, I'd expect that reducing the ability of the RMT to shut down the network is one of the motivations for DOO.
Lots of things are different in Europe. I Holland coffee shops allow people to buy and smoke certain substances. Do that here and you might get arrested. So the world is full of cultural differences.Well, why not explain why, if the disabled area was placed behind the driver, that the driver couldn't perform that assistance 99% of the time on the GB national network?
Of course, the driver currently has to secure his cab, etc, but on several Western European systems we've read now, that is not deemed necessary. It seems to be a mix of culture and risk appetite. Trains which have a large window into the cab from the passenger saloon don't exist on the GB network, but do elsewhere in Europe, which I have often ascribed to cultural differences.
Apart from the ongoing dispute on Southern when was the last strike?
You lot make it sound as if its a weekly occurrence! :roll:
Its more likely to be because the company have not kept up with recruitment as guards have moved on or retired which I dont see as a valid reason to get rid of the grade, unlike some on here.
What about the cancellation costs due to lack of drivers? That affected both the Uckfield and Milton Keynes lines today.Fewer delay or cancellation fines from having to cancel trains if no guards are available.
What about the cancellation costs due to lack of drivers? That affected both the Uckfield and Milton Keynes lines today.
Carry a wedge/block with you to keep the doors open until help arrives.
Would this not technically be in breach of a bylaw and place you at risk of prosecution?