WatcherZero
Established Member
- Joined
- 25 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 10,272
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
First Group: General Discussion
- Thread starter overthewater
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Schnellzug
Established Member
I know London things might be expect to fetch more, but 2.8 mill for north devon doesn't seem bad.
So a rule of thumb might seem to be, you could expect to fetch about the same as (/10) the number of Buses you have at any place. So the so far vague "Somerset" might be hoped to fetch approx 16 mill?
Schnellzug
Established Member
Considering the age profile of most of the fleets at most of those places outside london, someone would seem to have made a very shrewd decision there...
Stagecoach are withdrawing from the North Devon acquisition due to the decision by the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) today to refer the anticipated acquisition to the Competition Commission due to "concerns the merger will reduce competition in local bus services in the area".
http://otp.investis.com/clients/uk/stagecoach/rns/regulatory-story.aspx?cid=273&newsid=256311
http://otp.investis.com/clients/uk/stagecoach/rns/regulatory-story.aspx?cid=273&newsid=256311
Schnellzug
Established Member
Ah, congratulations, another triumph for "Free Market" Dogma. :roll: Don't these buffoons realise that the Free Market only works if there is competition? Now I suppose they'll be left with either Frist having to carry on, even though they don't want to (so cuts, fare increases and all the relatively modern equipment going elsewhere) or just witdhrawing completely and no one else taking over.
Someone remind me again, why should Government be responsible for public Transport, given the manifest dogma-driven incompetence they display every single day? :roll:
WatcherZero
Established Member
- Joined
- 25 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 10,272
Probably why Wigan is a good fit for Stagecoach, very few operations here since it acquired the other half of GM buses, would also allow it to become a truly county wide operator and sell itself as such in ticketing/promotional sense.
Ivo
Established Member
Barnstaple isn't big enough - both as a town and as an operation - for that response to be valid in my opinion. Competition is minimal anyway.
Nothing on First's website that I can see.
Nothing on First's website that I can see.
I get the feeling this may become a theme during these sell offs.
If operators struggle to get the takeovers approved, it's putting jobs and services at severe risk. I wouldn't expect the OFT to understand this though - they've already proved that they have little understanding of the realities of bus operation.
tbtc
Veteran Member
My thinking exactly.
But if this is a "monopoly" then we can kiss goodbye to any dreams of Stagecoach running the whole show in Northampton or various other "suggestions" on here...
robertclark125
Established Member
Well, not exactly. As someone stated above, what if First gave 6 months notice it was withdrawing, to allow other firms to take on the work, and/or the local authority to pay for replacement services, and Stagecoach suddenly said it would provide a replacement network. Now, nothing there the OFT can do. A firm has made a commercial decision to close, and another has made a commercial decision to replace.
First don't get any money for selling the company, but may get some money from selling the depot and buses.
Arriva did this back around 1999 when they deregistered their whole Crawley and most of their Surrey operations. Metrobus then stepped in and registered their own network and bought the depot from Arriva. Metrobus used their own buses, though.
tbtc
Veteran Member
True, but First aren't going to raise the millions of pounds that First want. They might make a few quid in selling depots off (bearing in mind that they seem very reluctant to sell buses on to other organisations), but they wouldn't be able to get any money for the actual business (a fairly stable revenue stream) which would defeat much of the point of this "sale" (or mean they have to get rid of much more).
For example, look at Dalkeith/ Mussleburgh - they've surrendered some routes with reasonable revenue (44, 86) for £0 - there was no need for Lothian to purchase any land from them or any buses from them. Not great business, especially if they do this in other locations.
overthewater
Established Member
- Joined
- 16 Apr 2012
- Messages
- 8,185
First and lothian went to CC before it went public, I wonder why there did not do the same with North Devon? How many other companies have went to the CC in private to get advise?
I still believe depots will still get return if sold, in the likes of Northampton.
MCW
Member
in all honesty I think Centrebus should get Northampton or at least part of, with the rest being stagecoach. Let's face it, Centrebus do run numerous routes in that county
I wonder if we're about to see a new entrant in the Northampton area.....
http://www.northamptonshire.gov.uk/...sport/pubtrans/pages/bus-service-changes.aspx
Take a look at the changes for 1st September....
MCW
Member
now that is quite interesting.
However, How does this effect the situation with First? Uno may not be in a position to take over the first operations? either way the more competition the better... we might be seeing a Bus war of some kind.
MK Tom
Established Member
That's very interesting. It'll certainly bring a splash of colour to Northampton. It should be noted though that the 18, 19 and 21 are all services for the university (the 18 links park campus with the college whilst the 19/21 are the same route and link both campuses to the town centre). Whether Uno are in a financial position to buy First's operation is something I'd be very interested to hear opinions on.
WelshBluebird
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Jan 2010
- Messages
- 4,924
I don't know.
From my perspective anyway, fares on both the Stagecoach and First routes between Bideford and Barnstaple seem quite low, and I can only think that the competition between both companies has forced the fares to that level.
However, there was a local rumour that as a result of the sell off to Stagecoach not going ahead that First are not looking to scrap their routes in North Devon asap. First have denied this, but you never really know.
An alternative would be Lothian running back out to the "Ferry" as it is part of Edinburgh Council area and who is the largest shareholder at Lothian?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Lithgy depot has been up for sale for a number of years.Livi and the surrounding areas have been hit by Horburghs competition so both depots may be under threat.As for the rest of East Lothian that First run the future isn't looking too rosey if the rumours form their drivers are to be believed with many already deserting the sinking ship so to speak
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A lot of the problems in East Lothian were of First making with them pricing their services too high outwith the Lothian bus area that passengers didn't travel,using older buses and having an unreliable service which made it unattractive for intending passengers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
No they didn't First offered the service to Lothian and Lothian said no because they were suffering themselves and had cut services thanks to Edinburgh Councils vanity project so as the depots at Mussie and Dalkeith were already sold First just withdrew services after the satutory 3 months notice
Blindtraveler
Established Member
What are first EL drivers saying? Not looking good?
overthewater
Established Member
- Joined
- 16 Apr 2012
- Messages
- 8,185
Lithgy depot is no longer up for, if you know what I mean since the Bo'ness deal fell through. What Horburghs competition? there got rid of all non contracted work and from what I heard there either going to have to spend some substantial cash or drop said contracted work.
There is talk that Another one of First scottish depots has been sold.....
Would that not make them to powerful in the area?
I don't believe it will NX don't go anywhere near Redditch currently.
There's a lot of work out of the Redditch Depot, I have a feeling the routes & buses will be split.
Redditch depot on the last of my knowledge ran these long distance county routes :
Redditch - Kiddiminister (X3)
Redditch - Birmingham (146)
Redditch - Evesham (247)
I would give the 146 to NXWM, the 247 to Stagecoach.
With regards to the X3, all dependant on what happens with the Kiddminster depot.
With regards to the town services i have a feeling that Diamond will take over.
Worcestershire County Council seem to have allowed Diamond into Worcestershire a few years ago, there was a lot of uproar with them when they first arrived, but they have built themselves a decent book of contracts within Worcestershire.
It's all down to relevant parties as to what happens, but i hope people get the same bus services as before.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
And so the mass swap of B7Ls/L113CRBs/L94UBs continues
[FONT="]06/06/2012, L94, 65572, S572TPW, prep to NT service.
08/06/2012, B7L, 66346, NV02VCZ, Northampton to Norwich.
08/06/2012, L113, 65562, R262DVF, Norwich to NT
15/06/2012, B7L, 66347, MV02VDA, NT to Nor.
15/06/2012, L113's, 65560/1, R260/1DVF, Nor to NT.
15/06/2012, L94, 65567, S567TPW, Nor to NT.
19/06/2012, 65560/1/7, prep to NT service.
20/06/2012, B7L's, 66338/9/40, MV02VCN/O/P, NT to Nor.
20/06/2012, L113, 65554, R554CNG, Nor to NT.
20/06/2012, L94's, 65574/87, S574TPW, V587DVF, Nor to NT.
21/06/2012, B7L's 66328/43, MV02VBC/VCW, NT to Nor,
21/06/2012, L94's, 65568/77/80, S568TPW, T577/80JNG, Nor to NT.
22/06/2012, B7L, 66326, MV02VBA, NT to Nor.
25/06/2012, L113, 65559, R259DVF, Nor to NT.
25/06/2012, 65568/80, prep to NT service.
26/06/2012, B7L, 66336, MV02VCC, NT to Nor.
26/06/2012, L94, 65565, S685TPW, Nor to NT.
26/06/2012, 65554, prep to NT service.
27/06/2012, B7L, 66335, MV02VCA, NT to Nor.
27/06/2012, L113, 65556, R556CNG, Nor to NT.
27/06/2012, 65577, prep to NT service.
28/06/2012, B7L, 66333, MV02VBY, NT to Nor.
28/06/2012, L94, 65573, S573TPW, Norwich to NT.
28/06/2012, 65559, prep to NT service.
29/06/2012, B7L, 66348, MV02VDC, NT to Nor.
29/06/2012, L113, 65563, R253DVF, Nor to NT.
29/06/2012, 65556, prep to NT service.[/FONT]
[FONT="]06/06/2012, L94, 65572, S572TPW, prep to NT service.
08/06/2012, B7L, 66346, NV02VCZ, Northampton to Norwich.
08/06/2012, L113, 65562, R262DVF, Norwich to NT
15/06/2012, B7L, 66347, MV02VDA, NT to Nor.
15/06/2012, L113's, 65560/1, R260/1DVF, Nor to NT.
15/06/2012, L94, 65567, S567TPW, Nor to NT.
19/06/2012, 65560/1/7, prep to NT service.
20/06/2012, B7L's, 66338/9/40, MV02VCN/O/P, NT to Nor.
20/06/2012, L113, 65554, R554CNG, Nor to NT.
20/06/2012, L94's, 65574/87, S574TPW, V587DVF, Nor to NT.
21/06/2012, B7L's 66328/43, MV02VBC/VCW, NT to Nor,
21/06/2012, L94's, 65568/77/80, S568TPW, T577/80JNG, Nor to NT.
22/06/2012, B7L, 66326, MV02VBA, NT to Nor.
25/06/2012, L113, 65559, R259DVF, Nor to NT.
25/06/2012, 65568/80, prep to NT service.
26/06/2012, B7L, 66336, MV02VCC, NT to Nor.
26/06/2012, L94, 65565, S685TPW, Nor to NT.
26/06/2012, 65554, prep to NT service.
27/06/2012, B7L, 66335, MV02VCA, NT to Nor.
27/06/2012, L113, 65556, R556CNG, Nor to NT.
27/06/2012, 65577, prep to NT service.
28/06/2012, B7L, 66333, MV02VBY, NT to Nor.
28/06/2012, L94, 65573, S573TPW, Norwich to NT.
28/06/2012, 65559, prep to NT service.
29/06/2012, B7L, 66348, MV02VDC, NT to Nor.
29/06/2012, L113, 65563, R253DVF, Nor to NT.
29/06/2012, 65556, prep to NT service.[/FONT]
Bye-bye First in East Lothian hello expansion of Perrymans and East Lothian Buses
90019
Established Member
Well, when I was last out that way, there were no shortage of Lothian's Tridents in storage at Broxburn that could be brought back out and refurbished for East Lothian services.
Blindtraveler
Established Member
dunbar on a Trident? No thanks!
Shuffle things round a bitty putting tridents on city work. Periman will have to get something bigger than Solos to cope with loadings too as his 17:10 Mon-Sat off the bus station are always full
as are a few others.
Shuffle things round a bitty putting tridents on city work. Periman will have to get something bigger than Solos to cope with loadings too as his 17:10 Mon-Sat off the bus station are always full
as are a few others.
This rate of progress, Northampton's fleet will have little more than scrap value....
And I reckon these swaps will make it less likely that Stagecoach will be interested, since their fleet is both far newer and, I think, is more Volvo than Scania - so taking on a load of elderly L94s and L113s wouldn't make much sense.
Stagecoach's fleet is majority Cummins engined rather than Volvo, which is second. Scania barely features.
I've heard elsewhere that the OfT have said that if Stagecoach bid for Northampton it will be shipped off to the CC, so I can't seeit being sold as a going concern.
I think it likely that all the routes will be cancelled, with the depot sold to Stagecoach who will then register their own version of the routes.
I've heard elsewhere that the OfT have said that if Stagecoach bid for Northampton it will be shipped off to the CC, so I can't seeit being sold as a going concern.
I think it likely that all the routes will be cancelled, with the depot sold to Stagecoach who will then register their own version of the routes.