FirstGroup vies with Virgin in west coast rail bidding war

[David10]

Finally with regards to Roger Ford, rather than idolising him, I respect him.

Agree all this stuff making him God like is a bit over the top.

In this instance, his info for WC is from Tony Miles rather than first hand from DfT, who is another first class railway journalist.

Who was thoroughly unprofessional on wnxx by announcing office closures resulting in brown stuff hitting the fan on that forum.

 

[All Line Rover]

If First manage to replicate an FGW-style service...

1. Travelling Chef on a significant proportion of services, serving excellent quality food to both First and Standard Class passengers*
2. A Restaurant with expensive but sumptuous food on a handful of peak-time, business-oriented services
3. Have reasonable advance fares (not cheap, but not astronomical either) on peak-time services, if booked sufficiently in advance

and also...

1. Keep "The Shop" open (related to the first point, really)
2. Keep the First Class lounges
3. Continue to have an excellent Customer Relations department
4. Perform long overdue station upgrades
5. Maintain a reputable, "quality" image

...whilst having a lean and efficient workforce and the benefit of modern rolling stock, I will be impressed. Yes, we'll loose some "perks" but no other TOC has them, they aren't sustainable, there is no requirement to keep them and I doubt any sane bidder would have done so.

*(How they'd manage to get the food from the kitchen to Standard Class I've no idea but, where there's a will, there's a way!)

If, on the other hand, ICWC is reduced to the likes of AXC...

 

[Greenback]

Really?

So he didn't recommend longer franchises (which is being implemented), devolution of decisions (which is being implemented), closer relationships between TOCs and NR (which is being implemented) to name just a few.

Just a 304 page report stating staff should lose their jobs?

I did not say that is all McNulty recommended. But its worth pointing out, yet again, that it is the structure of the industry that has contributed to the increase in costs (even with regard to pay increases), and the structure was not addressed at all in the ifnamous report.

Clearly, if the government was interested in cutting costs, one of the first places they should look to are the interfaces between the companies in the fragmented railway world and the costs inherent in things such as bidding.

That the report did not address these areas properly makes it look very much as if McNulty had been told what he should focus on (shock horror, the government had already indicated it was in favour of longer franchises!)

 

[Ferret]

Who was thoroughly unprofessional on wnxx by announcing office closures resulting in brown stuff hitting the fan on that forum.

It wasn't even announcing, more wild speculation from what I saw of it. Based on what might happen here or there, with no actual facts behind his string of assumptions. It was unusually poor by his standards, but he did apologise.

 

[route:oxford]

When is the announcement? I thought it was early Monday 13th but everyone now seems to be quoting 0700 on Tuesday 14th...

That will all depend on what has been happening on the background today...

If major announcements, that could affect share prices, have been leaked by newspapers at the weekend the city will be very unimpressed.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If major announcements, that could affect share prices, have been leaked by newspapers at the weekend the city will be very unimpressed.

Is what you describe covered by an offence in law ?

 

[Pumbaa]

Is what you describe covered by an offence in law ?

No. Unless undeniably engineered to inflate the share price to allow shorting, and even then not in most financial centres. But absolute proof would be nearly impossible. It happens all the time in reality.

 

[Pumbaa]

Who was thoroughly unprofessional on wnxx by announcing office closures resulting in brown stuff hitting the fan on that forum.

Yes - bad call on his behalf. Although he is well informed and I dont doubt that the issue he raised is truthful. Besides it seems to happen everytime the franchise changes hands - EC, LM, EMT, GW, TP and NT franchises have all shuffled their HQ and service departments since 2006. I don't think it is unexpected.

 

[richw]

No. Unless undeniably engineered to inflate the share price to allow shorting, and even then not in most financial centres. But absolute proof would be nearly impossible. It happens all the time in reality.

It is however an offence to trade stocks and shares using inside information. At my work I have to sign confidentiality agreements, and conflict of interest declarations annually.

 

[Pumbaa]

It is however an offence to trade stocks and shares using inside information. At my work I have to sign confidentiality agreements, and conflict of interest declarations annually.

Yes - most will to an extent. However when something is published in the media, it is no longer 'insider' information or information for profit. As the Graun for example have made it freely available for anyone to read on their website, as well as the FT and Telegraph running stories, it's all very much a non-point.

 

[richw]

Would the person who the "leaked" the information being liable for any potential offence being committed?

 

[Pumbaa]

Would the person who the "leaked" the information being liable for any potential offence being committed?

Don't know. If they signed the full works and did so without any form of consent from their employer, eg DfT and as such the state, then after internal procedures have dealt with the matter, if they had potential financial gain ie stocks with First or were paid to leak by other parties, then quite probably.

If on the other hand they had even implicit permission from DfT to stir the press into action or get the markets reminded of the major announcement coming up, then nothing would come of it.

 

[Wath Yard]

Yes - bad call on his behalf. Although he is well informed and I dont doubt that the issue he raised is truthful. Besides it seems to happen everytime the franchise changes hands - EC, LM, EMT, GW, TP and NT franchises have all shuffled their HQ and service departments since 2006. I don't think it is unexpected.

Hmmm, perhaps you should look back at some of his announcements regarding Abellio taking over Greater Anglia. They weren't exactly accurate and his story was even rejected by the Evening Standard. Also when it comes to Virgin, its detractors and its competitors he isn't exactly objective.

 

[bnm]

With regard to the Railcard issue on ICWC, yes that is a particular Virgin 'special offer', but, if the cold hard financial numbers stack up, who's to say the incoming operator won't continue the offer?

Bums on otherwise empty seats.....

The offer will have to remain in place until at least the first 'fares round' after the new TOC goes live. That new TOC will also have to advise widely of the withdrawal and face all the negative publicity that entails.

 

[David10]

Would the person who the "leaked" the information being liable for any potential offence being committed?

Technically yes, but when did you last read of somebody being prosecuted? Worst case scenario would probably be termination of employment.

If the source was someone within the DfT with half a brain, they would have waited till the pool of people with information was large enough for it to be difficult to pinpoint and used a method of communication not detectable.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes - bad call on his behalf. Although he is well informed and I dont doubt that the issue he raised is truthful. Besides it seems to happen everytime the franchise changes hands - EC, LM, EMT, GW, TP and NT franchises have all shuffled their HQ and service departments since 2006. I don't think it is unexpected.

True, but giving specific details on which offices may close shouldn't be revealed on an internet forum regardless of the validity of the information and as an experienced journalist he should know better.

 

[spyontheinside]

When is the announcement? I thought it was early Monday 13th but everyone now seems to be quoting 0700 on Tuesday 14th...

Correct, 14th at 0700 or thereabouts, to coinside with the opening of the stock market.

 

[merlodlliw]

The announcement will be by the DFT, however their "Harry" Belafonte bucket will do an excellent job with the leaks.

Both VT & FGW will be officially told prior to 0700, so it seems First will return to North Wales again.

Perhaps no bad thing, FNW were OK

 

[WestCoast]

Interesting that the WCML north of Crewe will allegedly now be a 'FirstGroup area', since the Manchester Airport - Barrow/Windermere/Edinburgh/Glasgow services are currently in the hands of First as well as the Sleeper. Of course, it's First again north of the border.

 

[tbtc]

Interesting that the WCML north of Crewe will allegedly now be a 'FirstGroup area', since the Manchester Airport - Barrow/Windermere/Edinburgh/Glasgow services are currently in the hands of First as well as the Sleeper. Of course, it's First again north of the border.

A Pedant writes - don't forget Northern (e.g. Wigan to Preston)

 

[WestCoast]

A Pedant writes - don't forget Northern (e.g. Wigan to Preston)

Quite, but I'd excluded the 'local hops' on Northern, since they are fairly insignificant for the purpose of long distance travel along the WCML.

I wonder if we'll ever get a real stopping service for the North West section of the WCML (i.e. LM's rejected Preston - Birmingham service which would e.g. link Hartford/Winsford/Acton Bridge to Warrington among other absent links).

 

[tbtc]

Quite, but I'd excluded the 'local hops' on Northern, since they are fairly insignificant for the purpose of long distance travel along the WCML

Fair enough. At least this will stop the claims about one TOC not being allowed to run all trains between two stations.

I guess there's potential for the TPE services through Carlisle to move to the West Coast franchise in a couple of years (post electrification and the remapping of franchises in northern England)

 

[The Ham]

From the BBC's today program:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9744000/9744375.stm

Bow Crow stating that station staff will be cut, so that rules out more stations with ticket barriers then!

 

[Stats]

Correct, 14th at 0700 or thereabouts, to coinside with the opening of the stock market.

Of course, announcing the franchise award tomorrow will have nothing to do with deflecting attention away from the news on next January's fare rises which will be based on tomorrow's inflation figures.

 

[RPI]

From the BBC's today program:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9744000/9744375.stm

Bow Crow stating that station staff will be cut, so that rules out more stations with ticket barriers then!

amazing how Bob Crow obviously has inside information

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Of course, announcing the franchise award tomorrow will have nothing to do with deflecting attention away from the news on next January's fare rises which will be based on tomorrow's inflation figures.

Or all three party leaders being out of the country...

 

[krisk]

What a surprise

Let's just see

 

[SprinterMan]

If First do win and use the "Horizon Trains" brand, then I can imagine their logo being something like this. :P

 

[Pumbaa]

That's exactly how I'd imagined it!

 

[Ferret]

amazing how Bob Crow obviously has inside information

I bet you he doesn't.

 

[Buspilot]

If Virgin do lose out, that will almost guarantee them applying for the air routes from Heathrow to Scotland, that BA have to give up after acquiring bmi.

Back to the rail v air wars.