FirstGroup vies with Virgin in west coast rail bidding war

[tbtc]

Eagles suggested that Virgin had lost in her Newsnight interview this evening

 

[ItchyRsole]

Why would they rename it 'Horizons' and not First?

Also someone mentioned if First win the bid it will effect the FCC branch of their operation. True? if so how & why?

 

[neilm]

Why would they rename it 'Horizons' and not First?

Also someone mentioned if First win the bid it will effect the FCC branch of their operation. True? if so how & why?

Can't see how since the FCC franchise comes to an end soon now anyway And merges with the southern franchise they are rebidding for it again.

 

[ainsworth74]

Also someone mentioned if First win the bid it will effect the FCC branch of their operation.

Who mentioned it and where did they do so? I can't imagine FCC being affected at all by First gaining ICWC.

 

[ItchyRsole]

Can't see how since the FCC franchise comes to an end soon now anyway And merges with the southern franchise they are rebidding for it again.

I thought that.

Who mentioned it and where did they do so? I can't imagine FCC being affected at all by First gaining ICWC.

I work for FCC & a manager said it today. It baffled me. They are pushing everyone to give an extra 10% to help them win the new franchise so it confused me a bit. Maybe he has his wires crossed.

Horizon though???? What's all that about?

 

[Pumbaa]

Why would they rename it 'Horizons' and not First?

I wrote this earlier in the thread, and as its well over 20 pages long, it will have been easy to miss. I think this is fairly close to the money, but then again I wrote it so I may be biased

Just to dispel a previous posters assertion of my preferences for the WC - I have never been a silver and red pompom waving Branson worshipper, and as far as I'm concerned they're all as bad as each other. Whoever gets it (but we all know its First) was going to have severely change the game plan. It's pointless denying it otherwise.

Despite the speculation that VRG are gearing up for a Judicial Review of the process, I doubt they will. All that will emerge is that the bid process will re-run, First will rebid and probably win again. VRG p*ss everyone else off and subsequently have their bids rejected on technicalities etc. I fully expect VRG to hand a poisoned chalice over, as they did with XC and launch a media salvo about what a massive mistake awarding the franchise to First is.

I personally think the branding of 'Horizon' carries weight. First will have recognised, and rightly so, that a small but significant number of people choose to travel by Virgin because they can associate with the brand. Virgin were successful in that quarter because they were 'different' to Joe Bloggs, and appeared innovative, stylish and 'edgy' for business. Stepping into a Pendolino vestibule is rather futuristic themed for a reason! Regardless of how much you despise VRG, you have to give credit where credit is due - with the Virgin brand they have created a desirable image for rail travel to Joe Bloggs and people travel because of it.

And I think thats what First want to emulate with the Horizon brand - it will do pretty much the same thing - or at least they hope.

 

[ItchyRsole]

Thanks interesting post, makes sense to.

As an employee for First I'm hoping IF we win it having it named Horizons won't effect our company privileges! Surely if First own it we should get to travel free on it right? (First boxes or £5 vouchers)

 

[HH]

It will be announced in the morning that First have won it.

 

[Pumbaa]

It will be announced in the morning that First have won it.

In other news, bears defecate in nearby woodland.

Apparently that is news to some. I think I should let this SHOCK announcement settle in first before I claim my £5... I cast it a long time ago.

 

[Sadsmileyface]

Thanks interesting post, makes sense to.

As an employee for First I'm hoping IF we win it having it named Horizons won't effect our company privileges! Surely if First own it we should get to travel free on it right? (First boxes or £5 vouchers)

Dunno. Neither are valid on the Sleeper and for some reason, with nothing to back it up, I suspect it'd be the same.

Or maybe I'm just a pessimist.

 

[HH]

Apparently that is news to some.

Trust me, it is news to some. :roll:

 

[Realfish]

Eagles suggested that Virgin had lost in her Newsnight interview this evening

Despite the writing being on the wall and all of the press speculation, for a senior politician to say this ahead of the formal announcement is shamefully disrespectful to Virgin staff.

 

[Pumbaa]

Trust me, it is news to some. :roll:

I don't doubt. Currently picking up assorted dummies and small items for child amusement decamped from perambulators.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Despite the writing being on the wall and all of the press speculation, for a senior politician to say this ahead of the formal announcement is shamefully disrespectful to Virgin staff.

How exactly?

If you've got a full time job with them, great - TUPE. If not, you had an end date on your contract anyway. No-one *really* knows the full plans, we have bits of it.

If I was on a fixed length contract, I'd have been glad of the extra warning and would currently be throwing myself into the job market.

 

[ItchyRsole]

Dunno. Neither are valid on the Sleeper and for some reason, with nothing to back it up, I suspect it'd be the same.

Or maybe I'm just a pessimist.

Hmmmm true.

Bloody hope not.

 

[WatcherZero]

Just because the bidding company is called Horizon theres no guarentee the trading name will be that.

 

[yorkie]

Dunno. Neither are valid on the Sleeper and for some reason, with nothing to back it up, I suspect it'd be the same.

Or maybe I'm just a pessimist.

The Scotrail seated accommodation is very limited, therefore the passes are only valid in the berths, for which a berth supplement is payable... but the travel itself is free.

(By the way a new thread will be created when the announcement is actually made, to discuss the winners plans)

 

[dvboy]

Metro has called it for First
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/908569-richard-branson-to-lose-west-coast-line-after-15-years

Richard Branson ‘to lose’ West Coast line after 15 years

Virgin Rail has been outbid by transport giant FirstGroup in the new franchise battle to run the London to Scotland line.

The announcement, expected imminently, will mean an end to Virgin’s 15 years of operating the line which serves Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool and Glasgow. Its high speed trains carry 31million passengers a year.

FirstGroup, which already runs routes including Great Western and ScotRail, is believed to have bid as much as £7billion for the new 14-year franchise which will begin in December. It is thought the company could operate West Coast under the name Horizon Trains Limited.

RMT union general secretary Bob Crow said the franchise was linked to a ‘gold-plated’ contract that would see ‘massive’ cuts to jobs and passenger services and big increases in fares.

Personally I think Horizon Trains is an awful name - where has this come from other than a domain name registration? I'd have thought First would want their name on the franchise like they have everything else they run.

 

[David10]

How exactly?

Because as a courtesy the Minister's office has probably kept her informed, yet she has decided to ignore the embargo. She was one of the grubs who wanted MP's expenses exempt from FOI. It's one thing for Bob Crow to speak out based on the contents of a newspaper article, its another for a MP who is likely to have been formally advised.

Fair play that she was on Newsnight re ticket increases, but she should have stated she wasn't in a position to comment re the WC franchise.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Metro has called it for First
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/908569-richard-branson-to-lose-west-coast-line-after-15-years

Nothing new, just a rerun of yesterday's Evening Standard story.

 

[Pumbaa]

Because as a courtesy the Minister's office has probably kept her informed, yet she has decided to ignore the embargo. She was one of the grubs who wanted MP's expenses exempt from FOI. It's one thing for Bob Crow to speak out based on the contents of a newspaper article, its another for a MP who is likely to have been formally advised.

Fair point re privy info - although I think its hard for anyone to act like the cat hasn't been let out of the bag, when clearly the tiger has jumped out, turned round and eaten the bag.

 

[Skimble19]

I almost hope Virgin get it now just to make the papers look dumb

As for Horizon Trains, what a horrible name - hopefully its just the bid name.

 

[rail-britain]

Personally I think Horizon Trains is an awful name - where has this come from other than a domain name registration?

First Group have not registered the Domain Name (specifically)
What is registered is a Limited company by the same name and in turn a TradeMark

 

[Class377/5]

Thanks interesting post, makes sense to.

As an employee for First I'm hoping IF we win it having it named Horizons won't effect our company privileges! Surely if First own it we should get to travel free on it right? (First boxes or £5 vouchers)

It'll be our boxes just like with TPE, Hull Trains etc.

Dunno. Neither are valid on the Sleeper and for some reason, with nothing to back it up, I suspect it'd be the same.

Or maybe I'm just a pessimist.

I believe our boxes are valid in the non sleeping car. Getting a sleeping berth is different and you have to pay something.

Why would they rename it 'Horizons' and not First?

Also someone mentioned if First win the bid it will effect the FCC branch of their operation. True? if so how & why?

The WC bid won't affect FCC in anyway. We're currently too busy working on other things like the new bid anyway.

 

[ssray]

First have it, not very happy staff on the 0529 from new street,
to be announced later
Ray

 

[gazthomas]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19264614

 

[Zoe]

It's official, First have won. I've started a new thread at http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1181177#post1181177

First Group have not registered the Domain Name (specifically)

The domain has been registered by FirstGroup.

Domain name:
horizontrains.co.uk

Registrant:
FirstGroup plc

 

[Skimble19]

BBC just announced it on Breakfast too.. Very sad news for Virgin, but to all Virgin staff - wait until the full details are released before fearing the worst.

 

[PR1Berske]

Damn, knew I should have put a bet on

 

[matt]

As the new operator has been announced can you use the new thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1181177

 

[Crompton Karl]

Still no official announcemt and I don't expect one till after 8-9am. The BBC reporting that virgin are 'set' to lose wcml. I notice nothing on Sky, they usually get the scoop nowadays and the beeb pick it up 15 mins later.