Class 319's Brochure

[anthony263]

Seen a brochure from Porterbrook posted on another forum which some of you might be interested in reading.

It does contain information on the class 319's and some of the proposals by Porterbroook to extend the working life of the class 319's beyond 2020.


Edit: the brochure can be downloaded here: http://www.porterbrook.com/downloads/brochures/319%20Brochure.pdf (PDF format)

The Class 319 EMU is an efficient longer
distance commuter train with performance to
match most diagram requirements.
The suspension provided for its 100mph
capability delivers a better ride than most
commuter stock throughout the speed range.
The unit is the ultimately versatile train.

The vehicle provides excellent interior space,
making full use of the standard C1 loading
gauge. This allows 2 +3 seating or 2 + 2 with
additional standing space.

Passenger boarding and alighting is eased by
1/3 – 2/3 doors and extensive use of bay seating
to ease passenger flow. The vehicle incorporates
a cab end emergency gangway which permits
operation in single-bore tunnels.

Opening windows are provided as air conditioning
is not fitted although this is an option available at
additional cost. Interiors were improved at the
last classified repair providing a bright and clean
environment with good lighting levels.

Most vehicles are still fitted with the original “Ashbourne”
seats although some have been fitted with more
modern Chapman seats. While not compliant to new
seat standards the existing seats have the advantage
of improving visibility assisting passengers in finding
empty seats and improving CCTV coverage.

The trains have been used for Inter City services such
as the Connex “Brighton Express” and inner suburban
services such as the Sutton Loop. They were designed
for the Thameslink service which combines longer
distance running with the inner suburban central
section, emphasising the flexibility of the design.

The units are identical from an engineering point of
view but they have different interior configurations for
each sub-class. The layouts are shown in the technical
information section of this document.

(read more in the PDF document)

 

[Aictos]

Thanks so it is possible to convert them to 3 car trains, wonder if that option would be taken up if they head north?

I do like the proposed works

 

[ukrob]

Well the new cab front sure looks better. Great trains, but ugly beasts at present. Doubt anyone would take the new cab front option though.

 

[455driver]

Why change the cab fronts if it doesnt improve anything (such as fitting end gangways), its a train it isnt in a beauty contest.

If the cabs leak then fair enough but if it aint broke dont fix it!

 

[anthony263]

I thought the class 319's had 23m carriages however from reading the brochure it seems they have 20m carriages. I wonder then if a 3 carriage class 319 could fit into the Marlow platform at Bourne End if the platform is extended slightly including moving the buffer stops.

I wonder as well if Northern will take up the option to re-gear a number of class 319's to give them better acceleration.

 

[ukrob]

Why change the cab fronts if it doesnt improve anything (such as fitting end gangways), its a train it isnt in a beauty contest.

If the cabs leak then fair enough but if it aint broke dont fix it!

As the PDF clearly states, it is to do with customer perception.

 

[455driver]

So the railways are already (perceived as) being too expensive and they are going to spend money on making a train look pretty!

Good use of money then.

Edit-

I think the 455/8s are ugly so can they be "prettied up" as well please as they give me nightmares.

 

[ukrob]

Well no they aren't as I said.

It is about making people in the northwest think they are getting new modern looking trains instead of 'cast offs'.

 

[Pumbaa]

Well the new cab front sure looks better. Great trains, but ugly beasts at present. Doubt anyone would take the new cab front option though.

Did you not see the revised front cab when they released their preliminary findings back in April/May?

They had 2 alternative designs then, the one shown in the brochure and another that looked was flatter and looked fairly similar to the existing front end, just a little more garish.

 

[455driver]

Give them a fresh interior, air conditioning and a decent paint job and it will have the same effect.

A favourite of mine is sitting on an FGW HST and chatting to the person sat beside me (yes I talk to strangers hockand I ask them how old they think the train is, now bear in mind these have slam doors etc, the answer is normally "about 5 years" or something like that and when I say "they are 30 years old" the look on their face is amazement, we then get on about the refurbishment they have had and all the rest of it.

Why would people "in the North" not be any different?

 

[ukrob]

Did you not see the revised front cab when they released their preliminary findings back in April/May?

They had 2 alternative designs then, the one shown in the brochure and another that looked was flatter and looked fairly similar to the existing front end, just a little more garish.

No. Two are mentioned in the PDF - depending on if the end gangway was needed or not.

 

[Pumbaa]

No. Two are mentioned in the PDF - depending on if the end gangway was needed or not.

On the original mock-ups, they showed 2 variations of each design (with and without central egress). The second design with central egress is the one shown in the booklet.

 

[ukrob]

Give them a fresh interior, air conditioning and a decent paint job and it will have the same effect.

A favourite of mine is sitting on an FGW HST and chatting to the person sat beside me (yes I talk to strangers hockand I ask them how old they think the train is, now bear in mind these have slam doors etc, the answer is normally "about 5 years" or something like that and when I say "they are 30 years old" the look on their face is amazement, we then get on about the refurbishment they have had and all the rest of it.

Why would people "in the North" not be any different?

Because people in the North are used to hand downs whilst. London commuter routes get billions of investment?

For the record, I have no problem with the cascade as a Northerner myself. The 319s are great units.

Not sure about your example. The HST still looks modern in design, slam door or not.

 

[455driver]

I would swap our Desiros for 319s at the drop of a hat, Desiros are overweight/ over complicated pieces of, well you get the idea!

Newer isnt always better!

 

[GNER 91128]

Why change the cab fronts if it doesnt improve anything (such as fitting end gangways), its a train it isnt in a beauty contest.

If the cabs leak then fair enough but if it aint broke dont fix it!

Probably to fool passengers in to thinking they've got brand new shiny new trains.

 

[jopsuk]

I thought the class 319's had 23m carriages however from reading the brochure it seems they have 20m carriages.

All the suburban EMUs based on the mark 3- class 317-322, 455, 456- used basically the same 20m long bodyshell, pretty much shared with the 150. Similarly the Networker EMUs are 20m, the 1972 "PEP" EMUs are 20m, as are all the Electrostar EMUs, the Juniper EMUs and the first generation suburban Desiros, plus the 395s. The only current EMUs with longer carriages are the 442, 444, 323, 380 and 390- mainly, but not exclusively, longer distance designs.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Probably to fool passengers in to thinking they've got brand new shiny new trains.

True, a decent refurbishment can easily fool the average passenger- I remember fellow Edge Hill students remarking about whether they'd get a new or an old train on their nights out to Liverpool during the Merseyrail refurbs!

 

[jopsuk]

Why change the cab fronts if it doesnt improve anything (such as fitting end gangways), its a train it isnt in a beauty contest.

If the cabs leak then fair enough but if it aint broke dont fix it!

Read the document- whilst not pictured, it suggests gangways could be fitted.- there's mention of modifying the new lighting clusters to work around the fittings.

 

[pemma]

Some bits I've observed with relation to the 319s moving north.

The Class 319 was designed in the standard
configuration of 4 x 20 metre vehicles which is suitable
for the vast majority of EMU duties in London and the
South East. Recognising that some areas require 3
and 6-car formations to fit platform lengths Porterbrook
has commissioned a detailed feasibility study into
converting the units to 3-cars which has identified the
detail of work required and provided a budget price.

Converting the units to 3-cars improves their power to
weight ratio and ideally would be combined with new
traction described above to improve starting tractive
effort. This would provide better performance on
diagrams with frequent stops. Re-gearing to 75 mph
maximum speed is also recommended to optimise
performance on inner-suburban diagrams.

Obvious question there is what happens to the spare carriages?

Also it mentions a possible 'basic air conditioning system' due to complications with fitting air conditioning on the 319s.

 

[jopsuk]

Multiple options for the spare carriages:
Perhaps unlikely: 43 could be used to replace the older "odd" carriage in the 455/7 fleet
Pretty unlikely: extend one of the other fleets (possibly even those 455s) to 5 car as part of a 10-car upgrade- might have power problems, but then a traction upgrade of those units might solve that.
Most likely: components stripped, body shells scrapped.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Multiple options for the spare carriages:
Perhaps unlikely: 43 could be used to replace the older "odd" carriage in the 455/7 fleet
Pretty unlikely: extend one of the other fleets (possibly even those 455s) to 5 car as part of a 10-car upgrade- might have power problems, but then a traction upgrade of those units might solve that.
Most likely: components stripped, body shells scrapped.

Why not put the spare car in another 319 unit to make 3/4/5-car options.
I wonder if Merseyrail are interested in the 3-car regeared 75mph high-acceleration option?
Depends if the city tunnels can take 319s I suppose.

 

[pemma]

Would seem a waste to throw away the body shells.

With there being the mention of making the 3 car units 75mph running but also line speed improvements on lines being electrified I would envisage the 3 car units being used in single and double formations on stopping services and a 4 car 100mph version remaining for semi-fasts. The semi-fast option could be extended to 5 car but if that was a serious option why wouldn't Porterbrook have put it in the brochure?

 

[Class377/5]

Still wondering why they are being shown in FCC livery when they won't be on Thmeslink once refurished yet early images showed them in Merseyrail colours.

 

[ukrob]

Why not put the spare car in another 319 unit to make 3/4/5-car options.
I wonder if Merseyrail are interested in the 3-car regeared 75mph high-acceleration option?
Depends if the city tunnels can take 319s I suppose.

Almost certainly not considering they are getting brand new stock. Why would they want a handful of old stock which is almost certainly incompatible with whatever they decide on.

 

[ukrob]

Still wondering why they are being shown in FCC livery when they won't be on Thmeslink once refurished yet early images showed them in Merseyrail colours.

Makes more sense to show them in a current livery than one they would never wear in the future surely.

 

[12CSVT]

Still wondering why they are being shown in FCC livery when they won't be on Thmeslink once refurished yet early images showed them in Merseyrail colours.

Even more bizzare that some are still in Southern livery (albeit with FCC branding) even though they transferred to FCC nearly four years ago.

 

[Skimble19]

Don't forget that when they transferred FCC wasn't intending on keeping them for anywhere near as long as it may end up doing..

 

[Wath Yard]

Give them a fresh interior, air conditioning and a decent paint job and it will have the same effect.

Nah, those things would actually improve the passenger experience and we can't have that. Gimmicks is what it's all about, just like the rest of the privatised railway - all smoke and mirrors.

 

[ert47]

Nah, those things would actually improve the passenger experience and we can't have that. Gimmicks is what it's all about, just like the rest of the privatised railway - all smoke and mirrors.

If they raised the seating by a few centimeters, it'll feel like a new train!! (and you wont feel as if you're sat on the floor)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Well the new cab front sure looks better. Great trains, but ugly beasts at present. Doubt anyone would take the new cab front option though.

Sorry, but I think I prefer the existing "maggot" cab front design...