Class 319's Brochure

[talltim]

It hink the issue with the cabs is that they are an awkward halfway house, the front door give all the issues of a corridor connection (cramped desk, draughts etc) without actually providing the benefits of a connection.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The only other option I can think of is the busiest workings would have to be 6 car 150 workings on fully electrified services, which partly defeats the point of the electrification work!

There's a reference in the CP5 plan to some 6-car DMU working on Manchester-Scotland even after electrification, at peak times. (ie 2x185).
This is because 1x350 is not enough and there aren't enough units for 2x350.

 

[tbtc]

They could of course significantly increase the amount of via Bolton EMUs by extending electrification from Lostock Junction to Wigan South Junctions

Yes, but they're not going to do this in CP5 so it goes into the "wishlist" category.

possibly cut Kirkby back

My understanding was this this was happening?

 

[Class377/5]

There's a reference in the CP5 plan to some 6-car DMU working on Manchester-Scotland even after electrification, at peak times. (ie 2x185).
This is because 1x350 is not enough and there aren't enough units for 2x350.

There was an interview with someone from TPE last year stated 4, 6 & 8 car Scottish services depending on crowding levels in an interview with Modern Railways. It's not new info.

 

[pemma]

There's a reference in the CP5 plan to some 6-car DMU working on Manchester-Scotland even after electrification, at peak times. (ie 2x185).
This is because 1x350 is not enough and there aren't enough units for 2x350.

The 350 situation is a bit all over the place.

There's suggestions the TPE 350s will go to LM to replace the 321s eventually but there's also proposals for commuter IEP to replace 350/1s. There also may or may not be Liverpool portions added on to Manchester-Scotland services.

Once a firm decision has been made on those 3 things it should be easier to get either a larger replacement EMU fleet for North West-Scotland services or additional 350s.

A 6 car 150 would be more wasteful than a 6 car 185 (unless it was the two prototype 3 car units doubled up) due to having 4 redundant driving cabs. A 6 car 185 would also provide a consistent number of seats, while a 6 car 150 using 3 random units out of the current Northern pool will provide many varying numbers of seats.

 

[sprinterguy]

A 6 car 150 would be more wasteful than a 6 car 185 (unless it was the two prototype 3 car units doubled up) due to having 4 redundant driving cabs. A 6 car 185 would also provide a consistent number of seats, while a 6 car 150 using 3 random units out of the current Northern pool will provide many varying numbers of seats.

I know that it doesn't do anything for the number of redundant cabs, but I wonder whether Newton Heath would be inclined to form up some hybrid 3-car 150s again once there is some more rolling stock to play with post-electrification. At least there would be more consistency in their capacity.

 

[pemma]

I know that it doesn't do anything for the number of redundant cabs, but I wonder whether Newton Heath would be inclined to form up some hybrid 3-car 150s again once there is some more rolling stock to play with post-electrification. At least there would be more consistency in their capacity.

Given that there's 27 x 2 car 150s at Northern with accessible toilets and 33 x 2 car 150s without and the 150s they could permanently make up 27 x 4 car units each with an accessible toilet to bring down the cost of making them DDA compliant. Obviously which services get 150s may need to be changed as some services that get 2 car 150s don't need that much extra capacity.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....You haven't stated how you would deal with the potential problem of getting too many passengers for a 4 car 319 on some services and not having enough paths for more services or long enough platforms for 8 car workings....

That's because I don't think there is one solution to suit every issue created here, but equally I don't believe reducing the 319s to 3-car units is the way forward.

 

[sprinterguy]

Given that there's 27 x 2 car 150s at Northern with accessible toilets and 33 x 2 car 150s without and the 150s they could permanently make up 27 x 4 car units each with an accessible toilet to bring down the cost of making them DDA compliant.

Perhaps I have overlooked something, but I am only able to count a total of 58 class 150s in use with Northern: 30 x Class 150/1s (18 of which are former FNW, and hence partially DDA compliant, units) and 28 x Class 150/2s (11 of which are former FNW units).

 

[b0b]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if there is consideration for using 350's on the anglo-scottish runs, couldn't you use "all new" 319s instead? presumably the 100mph top speed is the same a 350 manages?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if there is consideration for using 350's on the anglo-scottish runs, couldn't you use "all new" 319s instead? presumably the 100mph top speed is the same a 350 manages?

Rather not use them on 250 mile expresses thanks.

 

[sprinterguy]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if there is consideration for using 350's on the anglo-scottish runs, couldn't you use "all new" 319s instead? presumably the 100mph top speed is the same a 350 manages?

I’m not entirely sure, but I think that Transpennine’s 350/4s might be 110mph capable. The new 350s have also already been ordered at this point, so any suggestions about using alternate rolling stock on the Manchester to Scotland services initially is moot.

 

[pemma]

I’m not entirely sure, but I think that Transpennine’s 350/4s might be 110mph capable. The new 350s have also already been ordered at this point, so any suggestions about using alternate rolling stock on the Manchester to Scotland services initially is moot.

The 350/4s will be 110mph. It was originally proposed that the 110mph testing using the 350/1s would be done between Preston and Scotland to see if that was a suitable solution for Manchester Airport to Scotland.
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Perhaps I have overlooked something, but I am only able to count a total of 58 class 150s in use with Northern: 30 x Class 150/1s (18 of which are former FNW, and hence partially DDA compliant, units) and 28 x Class 150/2s (11 of which are former FNW units).

I used Wikipedia but I'll work it out logically.

27 x 150s from FNW
10 x 150s from ATN
6 x 150s from LM as replacement for the 180s
4 x 150s from LM as replacement for the 4 x 156s that went to EMT
8 x 150s from LM as extra capacity

I don't even get 58!

 

[455driver]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if there is consideration for using 350's on the anglo-scottish runs, couldn't you use "all new" 319s instead? presumably the 100mph top speed is the same a 350 manages?

They might have the same top speed but what about acceleration and hill climbing rates.

My car can get up to 90mph, eventually but point it at a hill and I have to play row row row your boat with the gear stick because it is so under-powered, but does do a real world 57mpg!

 

[sprinterguy]

I used Wikipedia but I'll work it out logically.

27 x 150s from FNW
10 x 150s from ATN
6 x 150s from LM as replacement for the 180s
4 x 150s from LM as replacement for the 4 x 156s that went to EMT
8 x 150s from LM as extra capacity

I don't even get 58!

This is what I believe is the appropriate total:

150/1 – Ex-FNW: 18 units (150133 – 150)
150/1 – Ex-LM: 12 units (150103, 110 – 119, 132)

150/2 – Ex-FNW: 11 units (150201/203/205/207/211/215/218, 222-225)
150/2 – Ex-LM: 6 units (150204/06/10/14/20/26)
150/2 – Original seating: 11 units (150228, 268-277)