Routeing Guide and Season Tickets

[johnnycache]

I work for Southern (just about, i'm leaving on 16 March)

I thought i'd got my head around the routeing guide but there's something i'm having doubts about...season tickets

The simplest kind of ticket is a single...so the validity is:

direct train
shortest route
shortest route + 3 miles
mapped route with no double backs except double backs permitted inside intermediate routeing point groups and where easements allow them

The next simplest kind of ticket is a return...

the validity is the same as for a single on each leg but being a return there are also some extra possibilities available to the holder of a return ticket that are not available to the holders of two singles for example:

London Terminals to Beckenham Junction

This ticket could be used for a journey London Bridge - Petts Wood - Bromley South - Victoria and the train need not stop at Beckenham Junction

This was confirmed (as a general rule) at ATOC Fares and Retail Group in January 2013 and is reasonable because although there are rules setting out what is allowed when more than one ticket is held there are no rules about what can be done with just one ticket - so one works on the principle that something is allowed unless its expressly forbidden

My question to the forum is....is there anything else that a season ticket allows that would not be available to the holder of a return ticket for the same journey (other than the ability to make multiple trips) ?

 

[telstarbox]

A season ticket allows unlimited break of journey in both directions, which is not allowed for all return tickets.

 

[maniacmartin]

A season ticket can be combined with non-seasons without calling at the interchange station

A season ticket holder can switch between different permitted routes on a single journey at intermediate stations when the whole route taken may not in itself be permitted.

A season ticket can be changed over for another totally unrelated season ticket, whereas a non-season can usually only be excessed to a ticket that covers the same journey or incorporates it

 

[LexyBoy]

A season ticket holder can switch between different permitted routes on a single journey at intermediate stations when the whole route taken may not in itself be permitted.

Whether this is permitted only when the train calls at the station where the passenger changes from one route to another, or is allowed even on non-stop trains, is still not clear, however FGW stated that the train does not need to call. I'd not take this as a universal rule however.

 

[johnnycache]

Restating the principle above

If a passenger has a season ticket for journey AC for which the maps are

WX
YZ

If station B is on one or more mapped routes on both map WX and YZ

Then when the passenger arrives at station B on one of those mapped routes from map WX they can also continue their journey on any of the mapped routes on map YZ

The unresolved issue is whether the train needs to call at station B in every case

 

[bb21]

The unresolved issue is whether the train needs to call at station B in every case

There is no requirement for the train to call.

 

[Brucey]

Considering a similar scenario, I wonder whether the train would need to stop.

My ticket, from station B to London has valid routes via either A or C, i.e.

London ==== A ==== B ==== C ==== London

If I wanted to travel from A to C, or C to A, would the train need to stop at B?

 

[johnnycache]

I brought up this very scenario at ATOC Fares and Retail Group and it was agreed that if a season ticket was held a train could be caught from A to C whether it called at B or not and likewise if a return ticket was held from London to B

 

[RJ]

I brought up this very scenario at ATOC Fares and Retail Group and it was agreed that if a season ticket was held a train could be caught from A to C whether it called at B or not and likewise if a return ticket was held from London to B

Is there any mileage in having decisions like this compiled and published as an addendum to the National Routeing Guide? Or is it better to keep it as it is now, whereby arrangements which rest on undefined elements of the NRG are considered on an individual basis?

 

[johnnycache]

My view is that the minutes of those meetings could be published with just a few things of a commercially confidential nature redacted
I'm working on that

 

[All Line Rover]

My view is that the minutes of those meetings could be published with just a few things of a commercially confidential nature redacted
I'm working on that

Additions or alterations to the Routeing Guide instructions would always be preferable to minutes. The RG is referenced in the NRCoC. Minutes from ATOC meetings are not.

 

[34D]

I work for Southern (just about, i'm leaving on 16 March)

Good luck with your future career, and thanks for all the assistance you've given folks on here.

The next simplest kind of ticket is a return...

the validity is the same as for a single on each leg but being a return there are also some extra possibilities available to the holder of a return ticket that are not available to the holders of two singles for example:

London Terminals to Beckenham Junction

This ticket could be used for a journey London Bridge - Petts Wood - Bromley South - Victoria and the train need not stop at Beckenham Junction

This was confirmed (as a general rule) at ATOC Fares and Retail Group in January 2013 and is reasonable because although there are rules setting out what is allowed when more than one ticket is held there are no rules about what can be done with just one ticket - so one works on the principle that something is allowed unless its expressly forbidden

I think this is a new concept for this forum. Its certainly logical, but I don't think its cropped up before. One initial thought would be that OUT and RET are two separate tickets, but its good that ATOC have already decided in the passengers' favour.

 

[soil]

I think this is a new concept for this forum. Its certainly logical, but I don't think its cropped up before. One initial thought would be that OUT and RET are two separate tickets, but its good that ATOC have already decided in the passengers' favour.

I mentioned it this exact issue here, expressing the opposite view:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1371468&postcount=35

It is unfortunate that there are so many ambiguities in the rules, and that these ambiguities have apparently been discussed by those responsible for them, but no attempt has been made to publicise the results of these discussion, or eliminate the ambiguities.

 

[RJ]

To be fair, ATOC do tend to support the passenger where "ambiguities" are concerned and it may well be in the interest of their members to do so.

I'm not a fan of those who send them reams of pointless hypothetical questions for journeys types they have no intention of undertaking however!