TOCs being anti bike?

[island]

Buggies are supposed to be folded before boarding. Try telling that to some.

HSTs are magnets for badly-parked buggies.

 

[The Ham]

Two main points:

Firstly, oftern there are not enough cycle parking spaces, for instance when SWT's brought in their cycle ban they didn't increase the number of cycle spaces, even though there was then an increased demand for cycle spaces.

I once was told that there used to be x cycle spaces leaving Waterloo at some point in the past on a Sunday because of the old style rolling stock (implying that things were beter in the past), however becuase of the extra number of services, even with only 2 spaces per train (assiming a single class 450 for each and every service) I worked out that there would have been more cycle spaces than was stated.

 

[AlexS]

The cycle spaces previously were a consequence of the provision of the guard's van for all sorts of things. This included parcels, luggage (less racks in the saloon on MK1 vehicles, overhead ones only), cycles if they appeared and pretty much anything else you could think of from internal railway deliveries such as signalling parts upwards.

It wasn't provided specifically for cycles and as the other usages that it was provided for have declined or disappeared, it would seem odd to provide a quarter or more of a carriage on already busy trains just for cycles. Buggy users wouldn't use it as they gasp in horror already at the idea of taking their child out of their conveyance and hang around blocking the aisles and vestibules instead.

Saying 'you could get 50 bikes on a train in 1980' is one thing, but the space wasn't designed to carry 50 bikes, it was designed to carry a few tonnes of parcels. The same applies to HST vans in the TGS and powercars.

 

[ert47]

Why not install Bike Racks on the front and rear of the train and maybe the roof as well?

Might as well! The panto wells on some DC stock wont be in proper use for some years*

*patent pending

 

[Taunton]

Have you actually thought this through-
the train does not exist,
where is it going to be kept,
who is going to maintain it,
who is going to be trained to use it,
what is going to pull it,
where is it going to be loaded/unloaded and by whom,
who is responsible for the bikes while in transit?

That is enough for now.

I can answer these. Because I was actually involved with the London-Brighton bike ride back in the early 1990s. At the conclusion of the race everyone went on their bikes up to Brighton station.

There, Network SouthEast had provided complete special trains, 12-EPB, back to London. These trains were of course from the London suburban fleet. The rear six cars were just used for the dumping of bikes by their riders, all through the saloon etc, must have been about 60 per carriage. The front six cars were for the fare-paying passengers. Special ticket office set up to sell single tickets back to London. Trains left generally full.

 

[NSEFAN]

I can answer these. Because I was actually involved with the London-Brighton bike ride back in the early 1990s. At the conclusion of the race everyone went on their bikes up to Brighton station.

There, Network SouthEast had provided complete special trains, 12-EPB, back to London. These trains were of course from the London suburban fleet. The rear six cars were just used for the dumping of bikes by their riders, all through the saloon etc, must have been about 60 per carriage. The front six cars were for the fare-paying passengers. Special ticket office set up to sell single tickets back to London. Trains left generally full.

I think the point was that trains such as EPBs don't exist anymore on the mainline. Using what we've got, what stock is both easy to get hold of and capable of carrying bikes?

 

[455driver]

I can answer these.

UH no you havent, that is what happened back in the 80s, there are no EPBs (or HAPs or CAPs or SAPs etc) so what do you propose to use now! :roll:

edit-

NSE fan understood my simple post and beat me too it!

 

[The Ham]

I think the point was that trains such as EPBs don't exist anymore on the mainline. Using what we've got, what stock is both easy to get hold of and capable of carrying bikes?

not sure how easy to get hold of, but wouldn't the Overground trains make a good bike carrying train?

As they have very little in the way of internal fittings, so there should be plenty of space for cycles on them.

 

[Beveridges]

Some TOC's are very anti-bike, most notably Virgin. I received dreadful, absolutely Dreadful customer service from Virgin on attempting to take my bike by train.

Bikes should get the same priority as mothers with prams, no less.

 

[TOCDriver]

Some TOC's are very anti-bike, most notably Virgin. I received dreadful, absolutely Dreadful customer service from Virgin on attempting to take my bike by train.

Bikes should get the same priority as mothers with prams, no less.

And Virgin are quite right too. 390's and 220's were never designed for bikes. You can at least fold a pram up

 

[Eagle]

Bikes should get the same priority as mothers with prams, no less.

So you mean, if you can't fold it up you're not getting on.

 

[Qwerty133]

And Virgin are quite right too. 390's and 220's were never designed for bikes. You can at least fold a pram up

virgin operate 221s not 220s

 

[DynamicSpirit]

As many have said cycling is a big part of commuting these days, that I accept. But why do cyclists (in my area at least) seem to be allergic to buying fold up bikes? Everyone seems to need not only a full size bike, but a full size road bike with those massive handle bars that double the width of the bike and reducing the bike capacity.

Folding bikes are less stable to ride because of their smaller wheels - my personal view is that makes them significantly more dangerous to ride. They are also harder work to ride - in my experience, OK for short distances only. And they are more expensive because of the more complicated engineering that has to go into them. I have had a folding cycle in the past but I doubt I'd get one again unless the main purpose was to be able to take it on public transport AND the rides at each end of the journey were very short.

Sticky-out handle bars. Admittedly part of the reason why they are so common these days is fashion - and availability. I don't have them but when I bought by current cycle, I had go to some effort to obtain a suitable bike that didn't have them! But having said that, some cyclists will choose those larger handlebars because they find them safer when riding.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

not sure how easy to get hold of, but wouldn't the Overground trains make a good bike carrying train?

As they have very little in the way of internal fittings, so there should be plenty of space for cycles on them.

lol, that's the first reason anyone has ever given to make me feel anything other than undying loathing towards longitudinal seats.

However, although there may be more space for bikes, it also presumably means there's almost nothing to stand the bikes against - since you wouldn't really want bikes up against the fronts of the seats.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And Virgin are quite right too. 390's and 220's were never designed for bikes. You can at least fold a pram up

An unfortunate oversight in the design Worth pointing out that the relative lack of space on Pendolinos for luggage also causes problems for people with suitcases.

 

[Flamingo]

Some TOC's are very anti-bike, most notably Virgin. I received dreadful, absolutely Dreadful customer service from Virgin on attempting to take my bike by train.

Bikes should get the same priority as mothers with prams, no less.

Are you seriously comparing a bike with a child?

 

[jopsuk]

This.

I've worked a train recently during a known cycling event where the trains are not big enough to take the people, the TOC, crew, cyclists and organisers know this. The organisers even make it known the capacity of local trains is not great for bikes.

Yet as I turned away cycle after cycle as I am full I get the same comment; "this happens every year"....

This will be GA, who where possible do put on extra capacity for cyclists- obviously on that nline it just isn't possible. The following weekend they strengthened services and added extra stops at Ponders End in support of the London to Cambridge bike ride. By my estimate (I was one that used it) by the time the 0732 from Cambridge left Bishops Stortford there were 30 bikes in every carriage. On an 8 carriage 317. Again, this train had been doubled from 4 carriages and the stop at Ponders End was extra.

 

[bAzTNM]

Got to feel for you ticket examiner guys who have to put up with cyclists on their train. I've put my cycle away and took it apart just because of other cyclists. Some of them are the most smuggest, cheekiest, nutterish people I've ever met. They'll verbally snap on you at a moment's notice.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Got to feel for you ticket examiner guys who have to put up with cyclists on their train. I've put my cycle away and took it apart just because of other cyclists. Some of them are the most smuggest, cheekiest, nutterish people I've ever met. They'll verbally snap on you at a moment's notice.

As a cyclist myself, there's nothing I hate more than a cyclist on a train. We have two spaces, so they are doing bloody well to be on the train in the first place!

 

[Hellfire]

Some TOC's are very anti-bike, most notably Virgin. I received dreadful, absolutely Dreadful customer service from Virgin on attempting to take my bike by train.

Bikes should get the same priority as mothers with prams, no less.

And where exactly do you suppose you can put your bike on a 390?

More space for bikes means less space for passengers and their luggage. How many seats would you like removed from trains that are often at capacity between Preston and London? How much are you prepared to pay to have your bike carried in order that the TOC can afford to provide more space?

Even if space were found, someone loading and unloading a bike takes more time than a passenger hopping on and off so dwell times go up.

I think you are just going to have to accept that the idea of carrying cumbersome bits of kit on the railways, using current passenger rolling stock, is not going to happen, particularly as you pay nothing for the extra service.

 

[NJTom]

Bikes should be carried at a special freight rate at maybe 3x passenger fare. You love your bike so much, why are you on a train???

 

[Comstock]

I would try to point out that as well as hobby cyclists there are people who take a bike on the train simply because they can't afford a car and the train doesn't take them close enough to their final destination to walk.

That was me, until quite recently. Cross country between Nottingham and Cardiff have space for 3 bikes on each train, which is normally enough, but some trains are so crowded people are stood in the bike spaces. Unsurprisingly, things were much worse when a train only consisted of 2 coaches rather than 3.

I certainly wouldn't expect TOCs to cater for more than 3 bikes per service, but by the same token, perhaps restrict standing in the bike area.

As I found myself having to make more and more journeys at peak time (especially Friday nights) I bit the financial bullet and brought a car.

 

[jopsuk]

Bikes should be carried at a special freight rate at maybe 3x passenger fare. You love your bike so much, why are you on a train???

If I want to go cycling somewhere away from home (say, go cycling in Scotland rather than Cambridgeshire) and don't have the week spare each way to get there?

 

[tsr]

Bikes should be carried at a special freight rate at maybe 3x passenger fare. You love your bike so much, why are you on a train???

Are you serious? There are some journeys of lengths where it is perfectly practical to cycle at either (or one) end, but the rest has to be undertaken by another mode (with exceptions if you are seriously competitive or part of a major event - e.g. a London to Brighton ride). Given that the train, if booked suitably, can be a "green", comfortable and not overly difficult method of long-distance travel, I would suggest it can be the ideal accompaniment. Not only that, but you will notice that a number of cycle trains and TOCs promote bike+train travel at certain times of the day/week.

The problem for cyclists to overcome is that there is little built-in flexibility to carry bikes on many routes' stock, and won't be for a long while (if ever). Booking should not be seen as a major inconvenience, nor a reasonable extra fee, but I doubt any company with environmentally-friendly or leisure travel in mind would dream of charging 3x passenger rate! Large cycling events are rather different, but one or two cyclists per service, where permitted, should not be penalised if they have the right attitude.

 

[jopsuk]

Some TOC's are very anti-bike, most notably Virgin. I received dreadful, absolutely Dreadful customer service from Virgin on attempting to take my bike by train.

Bikes should get the same priority as mothers with prams, no less.

Presumably this was attempting "turn up and go" when, in common with other long distance operators, Virgin require you book one of the small number of dedicated spaces?

 

[DeeGee]

Presumably this was attempting "turn up and go" when, in common with other long distance operators, Virgin require you book one of the small number of dedicated spaces?

Which is lovely until railway delays mean that, through no fault of your own, you miss your booked connection...

 

[142blue]

Trains are there to carry people, not bikes. The fact they have space for bikes is a nice bonus but shouldn't be taken for granted. I was on a London bound train from Manchester but a bike user on it to Stockport so instead of the Train manager chasing fare dodgers hiding in the middle of the train / First Class they have to be down the back releasing the door to get a bike off.

 

[transmanche]

I was on a London bound train from Manchester but a bike user on it to Stockport so instead of the Train manager chasing fare dodgers hiding in the middle of the train / First Class they have to be down the back releasing the door to get a bike off.

That's not the passenger's fault. That's poor design.

 

[TheEdge]

...but one or two cyclists per service, where permitted, should not be penalised if they have the right attitude.

No one is complaining about this sort of thing. A 156 will carry 4 bikes officially, at a push a few more.

As I've said before the problems comes when 14 cyclists turn up for a peak train which is already full of passengers and expect to get all 14 cycles on. And then complain that they cannot by put in doors, across aisles and generally in other antisocial (and dangerous) places.

 

[Anvil1984]

No one is complaining about this sort of thing. A 156 will carry 4 bikes officially, at a push a few more.

As I've said before the problems comes when 14 cyclists turn up for a peak train which is already full of passengers and expect to get all 14 cycles on. And then complain that they cannot by put in doors, across aisles and generally in other antisocial (and dangerous) places.

The problem is when their are certain cycle routes which are very popular in the summer and groups of passengers decide to use them. A couple of weeks back I carried 10 bikes on a 156 which had space for 6 (this at 6:30 in the morning on a route suggested in another thread for being 153 suitable). 2 groups of 5 people. I would so much of minded if it was 5 groups of 2. At least then you can say they've read cycle policy and have been unlucky. But when someone from one of the groups says cycle policy is 2 per person you start to get frustrated (especially when policy doesn't say that anywhere)

 

[Muzer]

And Virgin are quite right too. 390's and 220's were never designed for bikes. You can at least fold a pram up

I was on an XC 220 the other day and was rather surprised to see space for a few bikes (2 or 4, I can't remember) in the vestibule. Does this space not exist on Virgin Voyagers?

 

[bb21]

I was on an XC 220 the other day and was rather surprised to see space for a few bikes (2 or 4, I can't remember) in the vestibule. Does this space not exist on Virgin Voyagers?

XC removed the onboard shop to provide additional luggage and bike space.