Cambrian hourly service consultation

[Llanigraham]

The 37s would not always be available as they have there own work to do, i.e. Engineering commitments. Not every day by any means, but you would have to have something permanent if you were going to get involved with Timetabled trains.

I also believe that they have a shortage of drivers.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

I am under the impression it was under IWJ stewardship that W & B was devolved to Cardiff, he was sold a pup,I agree,but he accepted the pup

You can keep repeating this until you are blue in the face but you are still wrong. It was devolved to Cardiff before he was a minister in One Wales coalition.

 

[jones_bangor]

I am under the impression it was under IWJ stewardship that W & B was devolved to Cardiff, he was sold a pup,I agree,but he accepted the pup

Rail franchises are currently NOT a devolved matter with responsibility retained at the UK Department of Transport, although the UK Government has hinted that this may be done in the future.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Rail franchises are currently NOT a devolved matter with responsibility retained at the UK Department of Transport, although the UK Government has hinted that this may be done in the future.

You are, of course, correct. My use of the word devolved was to refer to the day to day responsibility vested in the Welsh Government. The process of designing and awarding franchises is, at present, very definitely in the hands of the UK government. The Welsh government have no say at all in the matter. They may suggest or advise but no one in London is obliged to listen.

 

[Rhydgaled]

With all respect if he was rail minded,why spend taxpayer £millions on what was called Iwanair an air route between Anglesey & Cardiff, now a tourist attraction,that was invented in Wales.Even Plaid at its Annual Conference voted against its Leader IWJ over this birdbrained idea.

Of the high-profile transport stuff that I'm aware of, his own private airline (effectively) was his main mistake in my opinion. The second (and only one I'm aware of at this time) mistake was WAG2, the second express Holyhead-Cardiff train worked by a 175 running two hours behind Y Gerallt Gymro. If we had a second express it should have been northbound in the morning and southbound in the evening, as a mirror working to Gerald.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Of the high-profile transport stuff that I'm aware of, his own private airline (effectively) was his main mistake in my opinion. The second (and only one I'm aware of at this time) mistake was WAG2, the second express Holyhead-Cardiff train worked by a 175 running two hours behind Y Gerallt Gymro. If we had a second express it should have been northbound in the morning and southbound in the evening, as a mirror working to Gerald.

Whatever we consider to be 'mistakes', it should be remembered that he would not have had a completely free hand. He was, after all, a member of a largely Labour cabinet.

 

[merlodlliw]

Of the high-profile transport stuff that I'm aware of, his own private airline (effectively) was his main mistake in my opinion. The second (and only one I'm aware of at this time) mistake was WAG2, the second express Holyhead-Cardiff train worked by a 175 running two hours behind Y Gerallt Gymro. If we had a second express it should have been northbound in the morning and southbound in the evening, as a mirror working to Gerald.

You are of course correct,I tend to forget WAG2,this 158 replaced a busy Birmingham service through Wrexham to give it a path,running Holyhead to Cardiff,I used this train a few times, between Shrewsbury & Newport it only carried an handful of passengers,again like Wagair poorly thought out.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Whatever we consider to be 'mistakes', it should be remembered that he would not have had a completely free hand. He was, after all, a member of a largely Labour cabinet.

But IWJ was Rail Minister for WG at the time,It was a Labour/Plaid Cabinet,during his Ministerial position & AM for Anglesey he was the brains behind,

Gerald Wag one Premier Service
Wagair
Wag two
The Fishguard Trials

Some of these were poorly thought out. On his plus side we got him to Ring Fence the money for the Wrexham Redouble,which alas the current Minister Edwina Hart is undoing all the good work,IWJ in fairness to him would never have sidelined questions for months like the current Minister who is most arrogant to anyone who dares question her.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Gerald Wag one Premier Service
Wagair
Wag two
The Fishguard Trials

In fairness, I don't think Gerald itself (apart perhaps from having first class instead of a standard class hot buffet) was a mistake and his original annoucment for Fishguard was 5 trains per day to Carmarthen. I think it was ATW that came up with including an ECS from Clarbeston Road to Fishguard in the '5 extra trains'. As far as the minister was concerned, he only mistake would have been funding them in prefrerance to Cambrian hourly, if the money was indeed nicked from one to pay for the other which is not proven.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

You are, of course, correct. My use of the word devolved was to refer to the day to day responsibility vested in the Welsh Government. The process of designing and awarding franchises is, at present, very definitely in the hands of the UK government. The Welsh government have no say at all in the matter. They may suggest or advise but no one in London is obliged to listen.

Not correct. The UK cabinet has a Secretary of State for Wales (at the time Peter Hain, currently David Jones).
The franchise arrangements would have been reviewed with him and I am sure there would have been WAG input.
There certainly was when the franchise was devolved to the WAG to manage on a day-to-day basis.
That doesn't mean it turned out as anybody wanted.
The SRA which awarded these franchises was not directly accountable to the DfT, and they were facing vast cost pressures with the WCRM programme and others.

The one really bad problem with the W&G franchise was its length at 15 years.
But the belief was that it was not attractive at any shorter length.
It also gave "stability", and was considered a good deal at the time, given the subsidy level involved.
I think Arriva has done a fairly good job, given the constraints.

Recent policy seems to involve the WG at every turn, in the IEP and electrification programmes, rolling stock plans and infrastructure management.
I expect the next franchise will be much more completely devolved (but the area covered might be different).

 

[Gareth Marston]

The Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth Line Liaison Committee are presenting the findings of the survey to Welsh Government Minister Edwina Hart tomorrow Monday 25th.

 

[Squaddie]

My only recent experience of the Cambrian Line is from watching Y Gwyll on S4C for the past few weeks. And, judging by the number of times that DCI Mathias had to wait at the level crossing in Borth for a train to go by, I came to the conclusion that there is a train every 20 minutes or so.

Is that not the case?

 

[Gareth Marston]

My only recent experience of the Cambrian Line is from watching Y Gwyll on S4C for the past few weeks. And, judging by the number of times that DCI Mathias had to wait at the level crossing in Borth for a train to go by, I came to the conclusion that there is a train every 20 minutes or so.

Is that not the case?

Well the Down services that terminates atAberystwyth have a short turnaround and the UP train comes back through Borth about 30 minutes later.

 

[splashoutradio]

My only recent experience of the Cambrian Line is from watching Y Gwyll on S4C for the past few weeks. And, judging by the number of times that DCI Mathias had to wait at the level crossing in Borth for a train to go by, I came to the conclusion that there is a train every 20 minutes or so.

Glad I wasn't the only one to notice that

 

[Gareth Marston]

Glad I wasn't the only one to notice that

The Borth railway museum features in the series interestingly the producers filmed there and built a replica in a hotel basement in Aberystwyth!

PS expect an announcement this week by Welsh Government regarding the survey.

 

[impster]

Some info via Shropshire Star via Welshpool Town Council meeting last night (Wednesday 27/11/13):

http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2013/11/28/hourly-trains-plan-from-shropshire-to-wales-clears-a-major-hurdle/

 

[IKBrunel]

www.welshlabour.org.uk/news/2013/11...xamine-improvements-to-cambrian-railway-line/
says:

Group set up to examine improvements to Cambrian railway line
28th November 2013

Welsh Labour’s Transport Minister, Edwina Hart, has announced the creation of a group to consider recommendations for improving the Cambrian main and coastal lines.

The Cambrian Rail Implementation Group will examine in detail the findings of a report by the Shrewsbury Aberystwyth Railway Liaison Committee, which was commissioned by the Welsh Labour Government and has been published. The report is based on a survey of residents, students and businesses along the Cambrian lines to which 6,570 responses were received.

The recommendations include:
· The introduction of more frequent services between Aberystwyth and Shrewsbury to support employment and tourism
· Consideration of tourist train services on the coast line for the summer months.
· Improving the current Friday only 1859 service from Machynlleth to Barmouth by extending it to Pwllheli and running from Monday to Saturday inclusive
· Consider if these suggestions be included when the new franchise is granted in 2018

twenty f**in eighteen...

 

[merlodlliw]

Some info via Shropshire Star via Welshpool Town Council meeting last night (Wednesday 27/11/13):

http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2013/11/28/hourly-trains-plan-from-shropshire-to-wales-clears-a-major-hurdle/

Having read the Comments from the Minister,a report in February and yet another focus group, May/Dec 2014 timetables no hope,does she rob 158s from the Chester to Manchester run,not a chance. The Fridays only Parliamentary Train,set up by Lloyd George some 90 years ago is the only ray of light,for the coast, not the busy line to Aberystwyth

 

[The Planner]

Has someone just Tippexed out the year on that report from 2010 to 2013?

 

[merlodlliw]

Has someone just Tippexed out the year on that report from 2010 to 2013?

Seems like it,no doubt the Minister will as usual choose who is on the focus group, probably to be set up in spring 2014,then report back in 2015/16.
Why do we in North Wales & Mid Wales have little faith in Cardiff Bay Ministers.

 

[impster]

Looks like the recommendations quoted by the minister's minions bear little resemblance to the recommendations of the committee.

Typical.

 

[tbtc]

By the time the Cambrian gets its hourly service, we'll have spent more money on Tea & Biscuits for all of the committees/ focus groups/ task forces/ implementation teams and the like than the cost of a handful of extra DMUs.

If this were a road project, the WG would have funded it by now.

 

[krus_aragon]

If this were a road project, the WG would have funded it by now.

Like the M4 (Newport) bypass? Or the second Britannia bridge to Anglesey? Yeup, they got funded years back.

On a less flippant note, road projects are a 'capital' investment: it costs money to build it, then it's just maintenance from then on. Likewise building dynamic loops or redoubling lines: once it's done it's done.

However, in the ROSCO age we live in, nobody buys rail vehicles outright any more. You have to lease them, and keep paying every year (a revenue investment). That's part of the reason that this has taken so long: it's one thing to find money for a one-off investment from a capital budget, it's quite another to guarantee you'll have the money year-in year-out to lease the rolling stock from your revenue budget.

(So how has the Gerallt Gymro been running all this time, then? Political will to make it happen, and rolling stock being slightly easier to procure - no need for ERTMS)

 

[IKBrunel]

you are bang on the nail tbtc.
I've just heard the transport minister was in Machynlleth today & appeared to agree to build a new Dyfi Bridge on the A487 just west of Mach. (existing bridge regularly blocked by flooding & struck by trucks.

I think they would probably look at raising the causeway between the station and Dyfi Bridge as part of the scheme, but I'm not clear what they would do about the flood prone section under the railway, unless they're also planning a Machynlleth bypass...

 

[Gareth Marston]

Given that we've had what the Shropshire Star says is the delegation member's version of what was said and what the Labour party in Wales says is the official statement perhaps we should wait and see what Welsh Government actually says? Both accounts are second hand and not directly from the horses mouth.

 

[Rhydgaled]

it's one thing to find money for a one-off investment from a capital budget, it's quite another to guarantee you'll have the money year-in year-out to lease the rolling stock from your revenue budget.

(So how has the Gerallt Gymro been running all this time, then? Political will to make it happen, and rolling stock being slightly easier to procure - no need for ERTMS)

A couple of additional Gerald-style sets would be all that's needed to provide Cambrian stock though. Just put LHCS on the two busiest MAN - North Wales diagrams and use the released 175s between Holyhead and Chester to release the 158s from that section of Holyhead-Birmingham.

 

[merlodlliw]

A couple of additional Gerald-style sets would be all that's needed to provide Cambrian stock though. Just put LHCS on the two busiest MAN - North Wales diagrams and use the released 175s between Holyhead and Chester to release the 158s from that section of Holyhead-Birmingham.

Gerald from Dec 9th is being put on the busiest North Wales service of the day,the 1716 ex Cardiff. Anyone know what stock is being used for the new Holyhead/Llanelli via Wrexham & return to Chester? on the same day, a 175?

 

[impster]

The Welsh Government's verison is here, along with a link to the original report. In particular recommendations 1 and 4 are diferent. The committee recomended an hourly service ASAP. The WG's version looks to be suggesting a 'more frequent service' possibly for the 2018 franchise.

I'm speechless to be honest.

http://wales.gov.uk/topics/transport/rail/projects/existing/cambrian-railways-tourism/?lang=en

 

[Squaddie]

The Welsh Government's verison is here, along with a link to the original report. In particular recommendations 1 and 4 are diferent. The committee recomended an hourly service ASAP. The WG's version looks to be suggesting a 'more frequent service' possibly for the 2018 franchise.

The number of errors in spelling, grammar and formatting in the full report is disgraceful. You'd think they'd have got someone to proof-read the report (or merely to have used a spell-check) before publishing it, as it does not give the impression of a professionally-written document.

 

[impster]

The number of errors in spelling, grammar and formatting in the full report is disgraceful. You'd think they'd have got someone to proof-read the report (or merely to have used a spell-check) before publishing it, as it does not give the impression of a professionally-written document.

Not as disgraceful as the blatant spin put on the recommendations by the Welsh Government who are obviously trying to get out of investing in rail in Mid Wales.

Let's not forget the report was prepared by a committee of people giving their time on a voluntary basis - not a professional consultancy.

Its all to easy to find blaim on bad speling and granmar.

 

[tbtc]

The Welsh Government's verison is here, along with a link to the original report. In particular recommendations 1 and 4 are diferent. The committee recomended an hourly service ASAP. The WG's version looks to be suggesting a 'more frequent service' possibly for the 2018 franchise.

I'm speechless to be honest.

http://wales.gov.uk/topics/transport/rail/projects/existing/cambrian-railways-tourism/?lang=en

An hourly service from Cardiff to Holyhead is obviously more of a priority for those in Cardiff Bay than an hourly service from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth (sadly).