As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I'm someone who works in IT and often works long hours & I can safely put my hand on my heart and say that long periods of work without a break, or a meal will almost always result in mistakes. I see it all the time, I've done it myself. Perhaps the evidence you've seen contradicts this, but then America isn't exactly a country with the finest record on working conditions. Maybe you want to look up how companies like Walmart operate in the US? There's a flip side to your evidence, and it isn't good reading.
And let's consider car driving for example, can you honestly say that it's a good idea to drive for many hours non-stop without a food or comfort break? The reason there are so many signs on motorways and other major routes telling you to "Take a break" is because fatigue has caused accidents, and has lead to loss of life. So is it really any different for train crews? Well actually yes, because they are responsible for sometimes hundreds of people on their services, so any accidents could be so much worse than on the roads. Therefore the Daily Wail really doesn't have a point, it simply wants to agitate it's rather easily lead readership into another "hate everybody for everything" state of mind.
My quick google search brings up this :
The Effects of Fatigue and Sleepiness on Nurse Performance and Patient Safety, Ann E. Rogers, Ph.D., R.N., F.A.A.N., associate professor, University of Pennsylvania School of Nursing, and the Center for Sleep and Respiratory Neurobiology, University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine.
The only way to improve safety over DOO is to have 2 fully safety critical staff on board, the ticket examiners on the A&B are no more useful in an emergency than any other passenger.
I am not taking anything away from the job they do but they are not safety critical and so cannot go trackside or anything like that. Although they are supposed to help out to evacuate the train etc they are not formally trained in it and for me it is a copout, If I am not trained in something then I wont be doing it because if anything goes wrong who will be in the firing line? Where there is blame there is a claim!
You don't need to steer a train, but equally you can bring a bus to a stand within a matter of metres. I wouldn't want a tired driver, who'd been working continuously for ten hours, in either case. Yes, the train driver isn't going to veer off the road into an oncoming vehicle, but he might briefly lose concentration and forget what the last signal was displaying, or confuse his current position and fail to brake for a speed restriction, or fail to understand a complicated set of instructions being passed by the signal, or...various other scenarios. I still find it difficult to comprehend that folk are arguing that traincrew don't need breaks!However driving a motor vehicle is not the same as a train (see posts on this forum on how bus driving is more onerous). Rail - basically because of the rails, is inherently considerably safer than any other mode of transport with the possible exception of air.
You don't need to steer a train, but equally you can bring a bus to a stand within a matter of metres. I wouldn't want a tired driver, who'd been working continuously for ten hours, in either case. Yes, the train driver isn't going to veer off the road into an oncoming vehicle, but he might briefly lose concentration and forget what the last signal was displaying, or confuse his current position and fail to brake for a speed restriction, or fail to understand a complicated set of instructions being passed by the signal, or...various other scenarios. I still find it difficult to comprehend that folk are arguing that traincrew don't need breaks!
Witness the incident at Desborough where a door came open on a Meridian between stations and the train manager requested the customer host to operate the emergency brake handle. The customer host had difficulty operating the handle but thought she had managed it on the second attempt as the train braked to a stand whereas the driver had realised the problem at that stage and applied the brakes. Investigation revealed that the training customer hosts received did not include practical application of the emergency brake handles.
When do they eat then?! Being hungry because you've not eaten for ten or eleven hours is hardly conducive to maintaining good concentration. Some might prefer to pop over to Sainsbury's (other supermarkets available) for the fresh air, and I'm sure some do sleep!
Unlikely. As Alan Coren once said "Sainsburys exists to keep the riff-raff out of Waitrose"I see that the member of the rail staff in the OP was visiting Sainsbury's. Do any ever visit Waitrose....or even Fortnum and Mason..
Not arguing that! Just that the evidence doesn't support that they always need breaks and the evidence particularly doesn't seem to support eating on a break!
Sleep, yes, and that is what is important - if they took a nap on a break the evidence is very largely in favour but not in favour of a break in Sainsbury's!
Why is it such a problem using the break time away from the train you have to run a few errands or grab some lunch or a drink?
Unlikely. As Alan Coren once said "Sainsburys exists to keep the riff-raff out of Waitrose"
Not arguing that! Just that the evidence doesn't support that they always need breaks and the evidence particularly doesn't seem to support eating on a break!
Sleep, yes, and that is what is important - if they took a nap on a break the evidence is very largely in favour but not in favour of a break in Sainsbury's!
Might be but I'm sure if the detail of Sainsbury was mentioned so too would diabetes. Indeed I'm not sure that a diabetic condition is appropriate for a guard..Might be a diabetic (or similar condition) that require regular meals/food to safely maintain their performance and concentration levels.
A customer host is surely a glorified air hostess all of whom are trained - this should be a hint!
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Yea, but not Asda...
Remarkably, science suggests otherwise - for concentration - provided days are c.8hrs. In any case you could (dangerously) be eating on the job.
LateThanNever:1732905 said:A customer host is surely a glorified air hostess all of whom are trained - this should be a hint!
Yea, but not Asda...
Remarkably, science suggests otherwise - for concentration - provided days are c.8hrs. In any case you could (dangerously) be eating on the job.
Not arguing that! Just that the evidence doesn't support that they always need breaks and the evidence particularly doesn't seem to support eating on a break!
Sleep, yes, and that is what is important - if they took a nap on a break the evidence is very largely in favour but not in favour of a break in Sainsbury's!
... or needn't be. The railway industry is one of the most badly managed, archaic, cowardly, inward looking and stale, particularly when it comes to change management and innovation in working practices, that I've ever encountered.
Those of us who actually work in the job do, obviously, have more of an insight into what it entails, its stresses, strains and rules, than those who do not.
However, it is all too easy for staff to fall into the unedifying trap of (1) defending the status quo at all costs, simply because it is the status quo; and (2) refusing to countenance any other point of view, because it cannot be valid if it does not come from a serving, line-toeing member of staff.
As I've said, I'm a high speed driver and a lot of what A-driver and others say is true. However a lot of it isn't - or needn't be. The railway industry is one of the most badly managed, archaic, cowardly, inward looking and stale, particularly when it comes to change management and innovation in working practices, that I've ever encountered.
Regards,
B
Might be but I'm sure if the detail of Sainsbury was mentioned so too would diabetes. Indeed I'm not sure that a diabetic condition is appropriate for a guard..
Or are you just trolling? Again?
Are we sure that the guard seen in the supermarket is the same guard that should have been working the train?
It could well have been another guard!
I'll tell you what'latethannever', rather than continually trying to argue your non existent points with studies you have found online after a quick google why not try doing the job for a bit and seeing how fatigue ACTUALLY works for train drivers and guards. You may then have a valid point to put across.
Failing that try listening to those of use who spend our entire working lives working in the jobs as we do know what we are talking about and I can assure you that taking the breaks discussed makes a world of difference to the safe operation of trains. 5 hours constant driving on a train is absolutely knackering. The last leg can be very difficult. You constantly have to try and force yourself to concentrate, braking curves for stations can be all over the place etc and I would never feel comfortable continuing after the 5 hours to do another trip taking me up to 7 or 8 hours.
And as for eating,my really think that I would be better off getting to work at 0430 and not having a meal break until I finish work at 1300? Get real! The first thing you are told to do to boost concentration is to have something to eat and I assure you it works very well, and that isn't some study I have found online telling me that, it is my first hand experience of doing it and that of my colleagues.
Forget what your "studies" tell you as they are worth nothing compared to actual first hand experience. Although I'm guessing you won't take any of that on board as you evidently have a bee in your bonet about rail staff and just like to spout rubbish making us t to be lazy and militant. I can't actually believe that you are still posting on this thread as if you actually have a valid point to make...you are still just making a fool out of yourself by ignoring the posts by those of us who do the job everyday and can tell you first hand what fatigue is like for drivers and guards!