Grand Central Discussion

[91101]

x

 

[Techniquest]

Congratulations to all involved in getting Grand Central up and running finally. It's been a long wait but we've finally got the services we've been waiting for!

I only wish I had been there today, but that was not to be. I had to go to work. I'll be there as soon as is possible, but that is most likely to be in the New Year now. Money will not be available to do it this weekend as previously hoped, even though I'm actually available!hock:

Soon, my pretty...

 

[91101]

I arrived at Sunderland this morning around 0615 this morning, ready and waiting for the treat that was to come. The media glare was already blinding everyone who was there, with cameras from the local Beeb and ITV, Sunderland Echo, and a host of other bits and pieces, this was as one journalist described it when I spoke to him "the biggest story in the railways [in the north east] for years!".

Crew from Grand Central filtered in, including Mr Yeowart himself, eager as a beaver despite a 4am drive up from York. I think excitement had prevented sleep for most of their management.

A yelp of "Its here!" from one of the journo's heralded the arrival of the 0646 Grand Central Service "The Zephyr" Service to London Kings Cross. Pulling smoothly into the full length of Platform one and two. The little Metrocars going through three really did seem dwarfed in comparison!

"Inspector Sands Report to the Operations Room" was soon to be heard, 43080 and 43067, doing what they do as HST's had resulted in the overly sensitive fire alarm system being set off! As the system broke into the full siren, we were already entering Sunderland South Tunnel, a if you didn't know that the train you were waiting for had finally departed: YOU DO NOW! A fitting serenade in my opinion.

Most of the passengers, including myself, who joined at Sunderland were offered a complimentary upgrade to First Class, but at a price: Grand Central publicity, a mother and daughter duo on a day out to London, a transport management student out for an HST bash and myself, all singing the praises of GC to the collective media.

Announcements are clear and concise, the staff are well presented, the rolling stock is well appointed, and so I'm not going to discuss these issues here, as I've spoken about them a lot since my own little test run the other week. I will mention that on board standards are as high as GNER during the honeymoon period before Garnet left. The staff manning the doors are smart and courteous, and they sure do present the right image.

The catering offer at this point is just the buffet, the restaurant will start in Janurary when full services commence. The stock from the buffet is the regular collection of crisps and light snacks, and the range of sandwiches is varied and well themed. I tried a Steak and Cheese baguette, and it was very nice, tasty, the bread was nice and warm and crispy and the stewards, under contract from Innovation Facilities as smart and efficient as the GCR staff.

I have been fortunate to grab a quick few words with the guy running the catering for Innovation, and he's railway through and through, and I truly believe he will deliver a first class service that will really rival GNER, and whatever NXEC have planned! The menus look really good and can be viewed at Grand Centrals website clickable from my Sig.

Ticketing is fairly priced for walkup options priced cheaper than the interavailable fare, day trips to york are definitely on the horizon from Sunderland for many I'm sure. GC are utilising the Print at Home system employed by MML and some Virgin WC services, and this is now live and you can access it again at the GC website. I'm pleased that GC are utilizing the latest innovations to make life as simple as possible for the would be traveller.

The next fortnight really will allow GC, and the staff to really learn the ropes and bed in this service because I think come the new year when word gets around, I can see this service being very busy, pulling in new business from Wearside and Teeside, and allowing a much more seamless journey from North Yorkshire.

Seeing 43067 pull into Sunderland really was a lump in the throat moment of pride, I've followed this company right back to the original application to run Newcastle - Preston via Castleford and Brighouse, at times I've been very skeptical of the motives, of the business need, of the ability to actually deliver, I'm pleased I've been proved wrong, and I am proud to say that I was there, and I that I in my own little way played a small part in this, the first chapter of the Grand Central Story.

Tommorrow chapter two begins, away from the glare of the limelight and novelty this service needs to be maintained, day in, day out.

The train you've been waiting for...has arrived!

 

[schmoo_smith]

i'm looking at the times on national rail website and grand central website, they are both totally different, can anyone tell me the correct times for traveling up from kings cross to sunderland on friday and back down again on saturday.

 

[91101]

1650 from Kings Cross, arrive Sunderland 20:35.

Saturday morning 06:53 arrive KGX 10:45

 

[schmoo_smith]

and can i use a any route permitted ticket on their service?

 

[91101]

You certainly can, Network Tickets are accepted.

 

[schmoo_smith]

excellent news! so will grand central offer cheap tickets in advance once they have a full service up and running?

 

[91101]

That's not part of the strategy, the ideology is for a fairly priced walk-up railway. Advance purchase does at this point not feature in the plans.

 

[schmoo_smith]

thats a bit of a downer, that plus the fact they dont accept rail cards, still for non railcard holders its a decent price considering a standard open return is staggering £236.00!!!

 

[91101]

They do accept railcard discounted NETWORK tickets, its just that their is no Railcard discount for the GCR only fare.

 

[schmoo_smith]

yeah i knew about that, do you think they may start accepting railcards in the future on their own tickets?

 

[91101]

I don't honestly know, I don't fully understand the issue with membership of ATOC, on the face of it I would have thought that if a customer could present a valid rail card they can have 33% off the ticket price, but I suspect it might be that GCR don't recieve any revenue from the actual sale of railcards and so are unwilling to allow a discount when they don't recieve any of the income from the sale of the original railcard product.

This might be speculation ,but all of the Megtrain fares for example are not registered in LENNON and nor are they distributed using ORCATS, perhaps the same is true of GCR only fares, that they exist outside the sphere of normal RSP ticketing, and instead of the revenue going through the ATOC back office system, it all goes just direct to GCR and this again causes an issue?

It could also be driven by the desire of GC to make the whole marketing proposition as seemless and simple for the end user as possible, railcards, AP fares and the like add in another layer of complexity.

 

[yorkie]

GC-only fares north of York appear to be:

£2 single between any 2 stations
£3 return between any 2 stations

e.g. York-Thirsk is £3 return, York-Northallerton is £6 return.

I think U16s and over 60s get those fares half price, but there are no railcard discounts. This does present an anomaly in that for certain tickets it is cheaper for railcard holders to get 'Any Permitted' tickets.

Here's a comparison of fares from York:-

RETURN FARES - PEAK 
+--------------------+---------+---------+
|                    |    GC   | Any TOC |
+--------------------+---------+---------+
| York-Thirsk        |  £3-00  |  £9-50  |                 
+--------------------+---------+---------+
| York-Northallerton |  £6-00  | £15.10  |          
+--------------------+---------+---------+
| York-Eaglescliffe  |  £9-00  | £26.40  |           
+--------------------+---------+---------+
| York-Hartlepool    | £12-00  | £29.70  |            
+--------------------+---------+---------+
| York-Sunderland    | £15-00  | £30.50  |            
+--------------------+---------+---------+
 
SINGLE FARES - PEAK 
+--------------------+---------+---------+
|                    |    GC   | Any TOC |
+--------------------+---------+---------+
| York-Thirsk        |  £2-00  |  £8-50  |                 
+--------------------+---------+---------+
| York-Northallerton |  £4-00  |  £9-20  |           
+--------------------+---------+---------+
| York-Eaglescliffe  |  £6-00  | £16-70  |           
+--------------------+---------+---------+
| York-Hartlepool    |  £8-00  | £21-70  |            
+--------------------+---------+---------+
| York-Sunderland    | £10-00  | £23-00  |            
+--------------------+---------+---------+
 
 
 
RETURN FARES - OFF PEAK
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
|                    |    GC   |     Any TOC        |
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
| York-Thirsk        |  £3-00  |  £7-60 after 0930  |                 
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
| York-Northallerton |  £6-00  |  £7-90 after 0930  |          
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
| York-Eaglescliffe  |  £9-00  |  £8-30 after 0930  |           
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
| York-Hartlepool    | £12-00  |  £8-90 after 0930  |            
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
| York-Sunderland    | £15-00  | £20.50 after 0900  |            
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
 
SINGLE FARES - OFF PEAK  
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
|                    |    GC   |     Any TOC        |
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
| York-Thirsk        |  £2-00  |  £7-50 after 0930  |                 
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
| York-Northallerton |  £4-00  |  £7-80 after 0930  |          
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
| York-Eaglescliffe  |  £6-00  |  £8-30 after 0930  |           
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
| York-Hartlepool    |  £8-00  |  £8-90 after 0930  |            
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
| York-Sunderland    | £10-00  | £20.40 after 0900  |            
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
 
 
RETURN FARES - OFF PEAK (RAILCARD HOLDERS)
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
|                    |    GC   |     Any TOC        |
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
| York-Thirsk        |  £3-00  |  £5-00 after 0930  |                 
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
| York-Northallerton |  £6-00  |  £5-20 after 0930  |          
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
| York-Eaglescliffe  |  £9-00  |  £5-50 after 0930  |           
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
| York-Hartlepool    | £12-00  |  £5-90 after 0930  |            
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
| York-Sunderland    | £15-00  | £13.55 after 0900  |            
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
 
SINGLE FARES - OFF PEAK (RAILCARD HOLDERS)
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
|                    |    GC   |     Any TOC        |
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
| York-Thirsk        |  £2-00  |  £4-95 after 0930  |                 
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
| York-Northallerton |  £4-00  |  £5-15 after 0930  |          
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
| York-Eaglescliffe  |  £6-00  |  £5-50 after 0930  |           
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
| York-Hartlepool    |  £8-00  |  £5-90 after 0930  |            
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+
| York-Sunderland    | £10-00  | £13.45 after 0900  |            
+--------------------+---------+--------------------+

I think GC could open up a whole new commuter market on the Sunderland-York corridor, if they advertise these fares. The TPE route has far, far higher peak time fares than off peak fares!

Ideally, GC would have an earlier departure from King's Cross (15:50ish) which would allow for a more suitable departure time from York to really grow the York commuter market. A later train from King's Cross (18:50ish) would cater for the London day trip market. The problem with the 16:50 is that it's a bit too early for day trippers to London but a little late for people who commute to York to return north.

 

[me123]

Well noticed, Yorkie! They are fantastic fares and here their railcard rejection policy isn't proving to be a loss! M<aybe more commuter services in the future will make this even more accessible.

 

[yorkie]

I think they've got the right balance between simplicity and a fair structure.

It was always going to be impossible to implement a system as simple as they wanted and NOT have any anomalies, especially given the pricing of the route (set by a variety of TOCs: TPE/NT/NXEC).

If they had lowered the fares any further, they could have avoided the any-TOC tickets being cheaper for some journeys but then they would have been undercharging at peak time.

The great pity is when someone turns up, wanting to support GrandCentral, and is offered the choice of a £6 fare - of which GC will get perhaps £2 or so - or a £12 fare which GC will get £12. It would be nice to be able to pay the £6 fare but let GC take all the money (after all they deserve it), but at present there is no way to do that. Likewise for a railcard holder having the choice between paying £50 york-london and GC only getting a small amount of that, or paying £64 for the GC only fare.

 

[91101]

But if we look at York - London in isolation forthe business market, therefore no railcards for a 1030ish arrival in London, you need a business Saver which is valid on the 0837 from York. GC will allow you to use a BVR on their services, but they also offer the £64 GC only, which obviously at nearly half price is fantastic value.

I do hope they put a package fare together, travel card, travel and dining in one flat rate.

 

[BOSCH]

Another good day today,very busy between Northallerton and Thirsk to York(I think we may have something here)selling plenty of GC fares and not just the £2 and £3 variety either,long may it continue !!!

 

[yorkie]

GC fares table:

http://www.grandcentralrail.co.uk/tickets.html

 

[me123]

A great fare structure! I look forward to travelling GC in the future (quite a while off, sadly). £39 to London from York is a good price indeed.

 

[Techniquest]

So if I were to turn up on the 0646 SUN - KGX and 1650 KGX - SUN, I would pay just £69? What would the fare be should I decide to use my Y-P? I suspect there is some amount of difference, maybe enough to get that instead.

Is the aforementioned fare of just £69 now without supplements and purchaseable on the train? If so, that's a big plus!

£44 for a single in Standard from Sunderland to London is not half bad, I have to say!

*Starts planning for a Grand Central bash in January*

EDIT: That's an impressive fare structure there, why can't it be so simple all over the country! My only irritances would be a lack of RCD support and no AP fares. I do suspect these will come into play soon enough.

 

[me123]

So if I were to turn up on the 0646 SUN - KGX and 1650 KGX - SUN, I would pay just £69? What would the fare be should I decide to use my Y-P? I suspect there is some amount of difference, maybe enough to get that instead.

Can't use a Y-P at all, sadly! I'ld check thetrainline (for services with a change of trains), but they're not working at the mo. And I only like using thetrainline for fares because it's easy.

 

[Techniquest]

Indeed, searching online last night for fares using my Y-P wouldn't even show the GC runs. I do believe I got a SVR weighing in at a hefty £62-odd come up though. Which makes the GC fare seem quite reasonable, even if it is a few quid more. Still a bargain considering that £69 one would be valid in the peak! However I am going to re-check that RCD fare in a few minutes so will have more reliable fare gen shortly

In any case, here's to getting on a GC service ASAP!

EDIT: As The Trainline powers seemingly every TOC fare checker, the following fares gen comes from Advantix:

Cheapest Standard Class ATOC tickets from Sunderland to London, utilising Y-P RCD discount:

Route Not Darlington

Saver Single - £56.45
Saver Return - £57.10

Route Any Permitted

Saver Single - £62.25
Saver Return - £62.90

All of the above are priced by GNER and may not be reliable. Compared with GC's fares which don't utilise Y-P RCD discount, single fares are far more expensive on ATOC tickets. The Saver Return of Route Not Darlington is considerably cheaper though.

 

[Tom]

Indeed, searching online last night for fares using my Y-P wouldn't even show the GC runs. I do believe I got a SVR weighing in at a hefty £62-odd come up though. Which makes the GC fare seem quite reasonable, even if it is a few quid more. Still a bargain considering that £69 one would be valid in the peak! However I am going to re-check that RCD fare in a few minutes so will have more reliable fare gen shortly

In any case, here's to getting on a GC service ASAP!

Remember, if you use the railcard fare NXEC get most of the money! Go GC!

 

[yorkie]

£62 SVR Y-P not valid on 1032 arrival at KGX or 1650 departure from KGX.
£69 GC only valid at any time on GrandCentral.

 

[Techniquest]

Good point Tom. Worth letting GC have the extra £6.10!

That's why I wanted to check the fares on The Trainline yorkie, to see if it was possible to use that Saver Return. Evidentally not, so worth getting the GC fare.

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

VXCFan, turn up your speakers!!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ5xELd2R-Q

Also, that's my head out of the buffet car passenger door window!! (I know that because at the end you can hear 57601 in the background once our HST has gone!!)

 

[richa2002]

Is the service operating today? I can't see it on the live departure boards.

 

[diligentdave]

Is the service operating today? I can't see it on the live departure boards.

Nope, not running today due to a fault on train

 

[richa2002]

Shame .