Mods' note: Split from Railcard discount on board the train
.... off peak should be the same everywhere - ie after 9.30am
.... off peak should be the same everywhere - ie after 9.30am
Perhaps we should split this into another new thread to discuss everything that's gone wrong with XC!Currently CrossCountry (XC) have this policy, this means anyone requiring walk-up travel for a long distance journey priced by XC commencing before 0930 has to "split" their journey into a combination of tickets.
I personally find split ticketing rather fun. But for some it's a chore, and for others it's something they never have to do.If this was rolled out nationwide, anyone requiring walk-up travel for a long distance journey with any Company commencing before 0930 would have to do the same.
This would increase the use of "split ticketing" even more.
No. Making tickets "valid after 0930" means that for travel between midnight and 0429, it becomes cheaper to purchase a ticket dated for the previous day. See Validity and expiry for an in-depth discussion about the matter of that particular issue.If off-peak universally became after 09.30 only, what happens to journeys that carry over past midnight from the previous day? Would they need an Anytime ticket?
No. Making tickets "valid after 0930" means that for travel between midnight and 0429, it becomes cheaper to purchase a ticket dated for the previous day. See Validity and expiry for an in-depth discussion about the matter of that particular issue.
Mods' note: Split from Railcard discount on board the train
.... off peak should be the same everywhere - ie after 9.30am
Some Off-Peak tickets also have evening restrictions, some (Super) Off Peak tickets have Saturday restrictions. Some (rather long) journeys can't be completed the same day if they start after 0930.
Moving the restrictions to 0930 will also force some people to pay more or travel later (Off-Peak tickets out of Manchester vary quite a lot for time restrictions, some after 0430, some after 0830, some after 0844, some after 0859, some after 0930 and probably more besides). I'm sure people would rather pay less than have universal restrictions, YMMV.
If there were separate Off-Peak and Anytime fares for that flow I suspect it's more likely that the Off-Peak would be priced at the current level and the Anytime would be more expensive.
Valid at or after 09:30, additionally valid at or after 09:00 where no service leaves the origin station between 09:30 and 10:15, in the direction of the destination station.
I'm sure we all agree in principle that rail fares are far too complex and should be simplified.
The problem is that simplification will almost certainly result in price rises and removal of passengers rights.
This is already starting to happen by stealth with smart cards and print@home. Although great in theory they restrict rights to things like break of journey, starting/finishing short, using split tickets etc.
We should all be very aware of this and campaign to ensure that passengers rights are not eroded under the banner of 'progress'.
which they constantly disregardPassenger rights are enshrined in charters....
Who don't understand the issues or have any power anywayand also monitored by watchdogs.
which they constantly disregard
Who don't understand the issues or have any power anyway
Passenger rights are enshrined in charters....and also monitored by watchdogs. You do not know what effect price rises will have....50% of the fares basket is regulated and shows no signs of suppressing demand
Made up example:
Passenger travels on 0910 service to Bigville
Off Peak Return price £10
Anytime Return price £20
Current Off-Peak restriction: At or after 0900
If the restriction changed to "at or after 0930", how much extra would the passenger pay? Have any of the fares actually changed? Do you see this as a price rise?
It's bad for the passenger whichever way you look at it.
Option 1) Passengers pay more for the same service.
Option 2) passengers travel on a later service.
Option 3) passengers switch to bus or car (or tram where available).
Option 1 is good for the Government (less subsidy required).
Option 2 is neither good nor bad for anyone except the passengers.
Option 3 is no good for the railway and arguably no good for the Government either.
It's bad for the passenger whichever way you look at it.
Option 1) Passengers pay more for the same service.
Option 2) passengers travel on a later service.
Option 3) passengers switch to bus or car (or tram where available).
Option 1 is good for the Government (less subsidy required).
Option 2 is neither good nor bad for anyone except the passengers.
Option 3 is no good for the railway and arguably no good for the Government either.
Passenger rights are enshrined in charters....and also monitored by watchdogs. You do not know what effect price rises will have....50% of the fares basket is regulated and shows no signs of suppressing demand
All the above just highlights a point I ve been making ..... adding restrictions just adds to the complexity. To further prove the point, I happened to be at Leeds station today and engaged in a conversation with a couple of female passengers.....who stated that they found the rail environment very bewildering ( they were leisure travellers ). There is also a well recognised " efficiency gap " of some 40% between the UK network and comparative Euro networks, as highlighted by the Mcnulty report. Whilst that gap isnt the fault of ticketing per se.....none the less it does add to the issue.
The current system contains too much wild and slightly random variability, with bizarre 'Not before 04:30am' off-peak tickets kicking around, and restrictions which have no real consistency. Equally, a flat time is unworkable and unrealistic.
I'd be keen on a more limited system of restrictions, consolidating current practice into a selection of roughly 5 different off-peak restrictions. These, indicatively, might be:
- Prohibit Break of Journey only
- Before 08:30
- Before 09:00
- Before 09:30
- Before 09:30 and 16:00-18:00
We might not have exactly these (I haven't spent much time thinking about them!) and we might decide that we can tolerate more options than 5 (going to 10 or 15 would significantly simplify on the current system), but the principle would be to retain some flexibility, while simplifying things for passengers and staff.
I'm gonna wade right in here and say that uniform restriction of peak/off-peak just wouldn't work for the simple fact that every journey is unique.
An excellent example made by Deerfold is the case of passengers in Edinburgh. If everything up to and including 0930 was peak, on an off peak ticket you couldn't get to London until twenty to 3 in the afternoon!
Each route has its own definition of peak; passengers boarding the off peak 0830 from EDB to London will find the service much quieter than the train an hour earlier.
Yet for people boarding most local services in Manchester, 0830 is slap bang in the middle of peak.
The same rule applied everywhere would benefit only a few whilst creating problems for many.
BUT, Doncaster to Penzance Off Peak means you can only travel after 0930 with a Penzance arrival of 1804. That doesn't seem to worry XC !
True, so people need to "split".BUT, Doncaster to Penzance Off Peak means you can only travel after 0930 with a Penzance arrival of 1804. That doesn't seem to worry XC !