East Midlands Day Ranger

[jonb]

All - Am thinking of purchasing a East Midland's Day Ranger to use next Saturday up to Lincoln. Does anyone know if you can use it on GNER though between Newark - Grantham, as on the map it's not entirely clear?

Many thanks

 

[matt]

Not valid on GNER

 

[jonb]

Thanks Matt.

Jon.

 

[91101]

No and neither is its cousin, the Lincolnshire Day Ranger. EMT and NT only.

 

[87015]

Is it valid on all of EMT or just ex-CT services?

 

[eos]

http://nrekb.nationalrail.co.uk/promotions/02e6b23cc35ce741008d5f47acf894bb.html for details

http://nationalrail.co.uk/download/managed_files/4071xeastmiddayranger-20050721104954.gif for map..

It still says 'Central Trains' as the 'valid on ' services, so I would think EMT is now playing substitute, I doubt if they could wangle their way out of liability taking on the franchise..

http://nrekb.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/manuals.html says that section G of the National Fares Manual was last updated on 09/09/07, so its getting very dated now...

 

[A0]

Looks like the NR website and the fare guide have both now been updated.

Though, the EM Day rangers is not as good as it once was.

The diagram on the NR website is VERY misleading.

It reckons you can go between Nuneaton & Leicester - not now Arriva XC have taken that route from Central you can't.

Also you can't go between Nuneaton & Tamworth - now run by London Midland.

Travel between Leicester & Peterboro is now virtually impossible with EMT only operating a handful of trains on that route.

Not sure you can get from Tamworth to Derby by EMT either.

What I really don't understand is that Arriva XC are accepting the West Mids Day Ranger, but not the East Mids.

 

[Max]

Firstly, welcome to Rail UK!

The EM Day Ranger looks to be pretty poor value at what's included now. However, the debate about validity is an interesting one - if you took that map on the train with you between Leicester and Nuneaton and told the guard that it's the most up to date one from National Rail's website, how could they refuse to accept the rover?

Regarding the East/West Mids Rovers, presumably it's something to do with the amount of revenue XC recieves from each.

 

[A0]

Yeah, but is it worth getting a penalty fare for

I was surprised that Arriva XC accepted the West Mids given that it means a number of other ex Virgin routes are opened up as a result e.g. Birmingham - Stoke, Birmingham - Tamworth. I wouldn't have thought the EM ticket would have exposed them as much ?

 

[Max]

Do XC penalty fare?

 

[Gizmogle]

No, they don't.

 

[class 313]

I thought all TOC's do. Well, most.

 

[Bonemaster]

I thought all TOC's do. Well, most.

Only those that have the legal powers to do so can issue you penalty fares, you can however still get a penalty fare, having travelled on an XC service, as it applies to stations as well as services, as a rule it is only London and South East operators within the old NSE area and London Midland in the West Midlands county who can issue them

 

[class 313]

Only those that have the legal powers to do so can issue you penalty fares, you can however still get a penalty fare, having travelled on an XC service, as it applies to stations as well as services, as a rule it is only London and South East operators within the old NSE area and London Midland in the West Midlands county who can issue them

Thanks for clearing that up Mark.

 

[A0]

Don't know if it's coincidence, but I've noticed that Arriva XC have now been added to the EM Day Ranger on the National Rail website.

Either it was originally an oversight or somebody in either AXC or NR reads these forums

 

[Donny Dave]

Don't know if it's coincidence, but I've noticed that Arriva XC have now been added to the EM Day Ranger on the National Rail website.

Either it was originally an oversight or somebody in either AXC or NR reads these forums

Probably both. You never know who is lurking on the forum

 

[Mojo]

Only those that have the legal powers to do so can issue you penalty fares, you can however still get a penalty fare, having travelled on an XC service, as it applies to stations as well as services, as a rule it is only London and South East operators within the old NSE area and London Midland in the West Midlands county who can issue them

I'm not so sure it's that clear. The DfT's policy on Penalty Fares states

'Penalty fares trains' are the train services for which penalty fares may be charged. A train operator will normally name as penalty fares trains all the trains which it runs within a particular geographical area or on a particular route or routes.

which seems to imply that it is up to the individual TOC whether or not they want Penalty Fares on their services. A poster I saw at Banbury station once said "This penalty fares scheme does not apply to Crosscountry or First Great Western services from this station." Whilst PFs do apply on FGW services, they are not in the same scheme, but the same can't be said for FGW.

However, the section below that states

Passengers on a penalty fares train may only be charged a penalty fare if they got on that train at a station which has been named as a 'penalty fares station' by the relevant penalty fares scheme.

which could be said to include all trains, but then you've got to decide if Crosscountry's is "relevant," because they haven't applied to the DfT to issue PFs.

However it's confused even further by

The operator of a penalty fares scheme may give the authorised collectors of another train company permission to collect penalty fares on its behalf.

But I think this sums it up

Passengers travelling on the trains of another train operator cannot be charged a penalty fare if that operator does not have a penalty fares scheme, or if the authorised collector has not been authorised to collect penalty fares on behalf of that operator. The training and written instructions given to authorised collectors must make this clear.

And from what I've seen, Crosscountry does not seem to have a PF scheme.

 

[Bonemaster]

I'm not so sure it's that clear.

It is very clear (in my local scheme) that you dont even need to travel to get hit with one, you only need to be inside a 'penalty fares' area, normally as soon as you enter the platform past the ticket office. It is up to the operator however but this is what the notices in the West Midlands scheme state

My original statement was flawed though in that in 2002 the law changed (superseding the 1988 act) and that all TOCs now have the legal authority to levy penalty fares if approved by the DFT

In fact article 6.4 of the penalty fares act 2002 is quiet clear on the subject

6.4 Any person who is present in, or leaving, a compulsory ticket
area, other than a person referred to in rule 6.1 or 6.3, must, if
asked by an authorised collector, produce a valid ticket or
other authority allowing them to be present in that
compulsory ticket area.

 

[Mojo]

But there are a suprisingly small number of stations which are designated compulsory ticket areas though. I've spoken to someone at London Midland who couldn't provide me with a list, but said most stations in the Penalty Fares area covering the ex-West Mids county are not Compulsory Ticket Areas.

I know Moor St and Snow Hill are for sure, and I should imagine New St is too (although I've never seen a sign which would make it unenforcable anyway), but no local station between Small Heath and Dorridge is.

 

[turbostar naylor]

them day rangers sound good next time im travelling might purchase one, is it just for the day or can you have ones for the week?

 

[Mojo]

them day rangers sound good next time im travelling might purchase one, is it just for the day or can you have ones for the week?

Rangers are 1 day products. An East Midlands 7 day Rover is avaliable for a much larger area and is valid on more TOCs. £78.60 Adult (r/card discounts avaliable) and £51.90 Child. A 3 in 7 days rover is also avaliable.

http://nrekb.nationalrail.co.uk/promotions/02dbb6cfc35ce7410161c045cfc69855.html

EDIT: In response to my earlier posting, I've just been on a London Midland train and saw a Penalty Fares map. The only 2 stations they serve with parts designated as Compulsory Ticket Areas seem to be Moor St and Snow Hill (Birmingham)