-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Grand Central Discussion
- Thread starter Donny Dave
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Are you Tim on uk.r?Yes the 0646 ran to KSX but not before diverting through Grantham due to a failed Natex....then dropping off at Peterborough to collect Natex's passengers!!!!
We also had to divert back into Grantham for another failed Natex train....
And how can you divert through Grantham when it goes that way again? or do you mean picked up at Grantham? and picking up at Peterborough? Must have been wedged!
On the way back I see the 1650 overtook the 1700 (both departed late) at Doncaster. I guess the 1700 called additionally. (Does this mean NXEC should get no ORCATS money from that? overtaken trains don't generate any income do they
)Nope, nothing anywhere near as cheap as National Express's £10 advance purchase fares. GC don't do AP as they are not going for the leisure market, sadly. (I am assuming you mean York-London as you've not specified).
If you just want to go on GC for a bash, then get an inter-available ticket to Hartlepool (£6) and stick to north of York (Sorry GC
)Sir_Clagalot
Member
- Joined
- 9 Aug 2007
- Messages
- 853
Parker was probably driving the GC set at the time they went through Grantham...
adambro
Member
- Joined
- 2 Dec 2006
- Messages
- 311
Used wifi on NXEC C91s on numerous occasions since the franchise change. Never had any problems and found the speed to be fine. Obviously slower than broaband but considering the technical obstacles to providing such a service, I'm very happy with it. Used it between Pete and Leeds and Pete and London. Never tried it on a HST.
Are you Tim on uk.r?
And how can you divert through Grantham when it goes that way again? or do you mean picked up at Grantham? and picking up at Peterborough? Must have been wedged!
On the way back I see the 1650 overtook the 1700 (both departed late) at Doncaster. I guess the 1700 called additionally. (Does this mean NXEC should get no ORCATS money from that? overtaken trains don't generate any income do they
Nope, nothing anywhere near as cheap as National Express's £10 advance purchase fares. GC don't do AP as they are not going for the leisure market, sadly. (I am assuming you mean York-London as you've not specified).
If you just want to go on GC for a bash, then get an inter-available ticket to Hartlepool (£6) and stick to north of York (Sorry GC
Hi I am not Tim....and yesterday I was diverted down the slow, through Grantham.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
0646 Sun - KSX service cancelled today due to an incident last night!
Not great reading for GC...
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/yorknews/display.var.2115415.0.rail_operator_in_tickets_hike.php
I really hope whoever sets the ticket policy learns from their mistakes before it's too late...
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/yorknews/display.var.2115415.0.rail_operator_in_tickets_hike.php
I really hope whoever sets the ticket policy learns from their mistakes before it's too late...
If putting the price up means they maximise revenues and profit, that's absolutely the right thing to do.
Tom Clift, managing director of the firm, said: "It has been recognised for several months, as part of internal business planning discussions, that at some point in time we would seek to reflect demand for peak services by adjusting price.'
IE when demand is high. the price rises. When demand is high, you don't cut prices.
Granted, it's not perhaps the best PR, but a commercial company will always look at what the market can stand.
Then again Michael O'leary of Ryan air fame, always says there is no such thing as bad publicity.
Tom Clift, managing director of the firm, said: "It has been recognised for several months, as part of internal business planning discussions, that at some point in time we would seek to reflect demand for peak services by adjusting price.'
IE when demand is high. the price rises. When demand is high, you don't cut prices.
Granted, it's not perhaps the best PR, but a commercial company will always look at what the market can stand.
Then again Michael O'leary of Ryan air fame, always says there is no such thing as bad publicity.
I don't have a problem with putting up the price at that time (although I think it will hit GC-only sales but that's a different topic altogether), but I think it would have been far better PR if they had done the following:
1) Stated the new price from the outset, calling that ticket something like Standard Open, or, to be ahead of the game, 'Anytime'!
2) Stated their off-peak price from the outset, calling that ticket something like 'Saver', or, to be ahead of the game, 'Off Peak'!
3) Told everyone that their off peak tickets would be valid at peak time at the beginning as a special bonus to get people to try the service.
4) Told everyone that an off-peak ticket can easily be upgraded to Anytime by paying an affordable supplement that is only payable in the applicable direction(s).
They could even give out free upgrades to regular business passengers, or to people at times of delay, to encourage them to return to the services and use GC only tickets. If they gave a free upgrade to be used within 1 month to a business user on a £125 Business Saver, then that business passenger is likely to think "I'll try the GC only ticket next time I travel", then GC get £65 that they would not otherwise have had (instead of £10 or whatever through ORCATS!). Just a thought!
Winners all round then!
Good PR, transparency, and no problems of people being unexpectedly chinged (I think their PR will go from bad to worse when that happens, unless ORR force them to be transparent before it comes to that)
GC is a good company, but someone who is in charge of pricing is making some mistakes. As the saying goes, 'you learn from your mistakes', if they do then they will go from strength to strength.
There are other issues I have with the pricing policy, but I've stated them already and I think GC will have to change them or NXEC will take £millions off them if they successfully challenge the ORCATS allocation by virtue of the fact that the off peak GC trains are almost empty due to no cheap fares off peak, yet gaining ORCATS revenue, but I really hope it doesn't come to that!!
1) Stated the new price from the outset, calling that ticket something like Standard Open, or, to be ahead of the game, 'Anytime'!
2) Stated their off-peak price from the outset, calling that ticket something like 'Saver', or, to be ahead of the game, 'Off Peak'!
3) Told everyone that their off peak tickets would be valid at peak time at the beginning as a special bonus to get people to try the service.
4) Told everyone that an off-peak ticket can easily be upgraded to Anytime by paying an affordable supplement that is only payable in the applicable direction(s).
They could even give out free upgrades to regular business passengers, or to people at times of delay, to encourage them to return to the services and use GC only tickets. If they gave a free upgrade to be used within 1 month to a business user on a £125 Business Saver, then that business passenger is likely to think "I'll try the GC only ticket next time I travel", then GC get £65 that they would not otherwise have had (instead of £10 or whatever through ORCATS!). Just a thought!
Winners all round then!
Good PR, transparency, and no problems of people being unexpectedly chinged (I think their PR will go from bad to worse when that happens, unless ORR force them to be transparent before it comes to that)
GC is a good company, but someone who is in charge of pricing is making some mistakes. As the saying goes, 'you learn from your mistakes', if they do then they will go from strength to strength.
There are other issues I have with the pricing policy, but I've stated them already and I think GC will have to change them or NXEC will take £millions off them if they successfully challenge the ORCATS allocation by virtue of the fact that the off peak GC trains are almost empty due to no cheap fares off peak, yet gaining ORCATS revenue, but I really hope it doesn't come to that!!
Well I pretty much agree with what you say. It’s quite clear that National Express East Coast are interested in ORCATS reviews and passenger numbers, which is why they have people out counting passenger numbers. There may well be flaws in that system and if GC were challenged and NXEC won, I’d say that would put the whole concept of the railways structure under scrutiny. There must already flaws in the system to allow some of the bus companies to take over train services and run buses in competition with those.
I dunno whether anyone knows this, but because of the financial services act, companies are under no obligation to disclose unit costs, revenues and profits. Which is problematic for us debating it, or for that matter any of us starting up an open access rail company ourselves?
Could this be why GC are adjusting prices are they are going along, as they weren’t 100% sure of revenues?
Say railuk wanted to start up their own open access company, running from Glasgow-London, via the S&C, Leeds and Sheffield - Just how would you go about doing it? How would you get cost projections and passenger projections? Where are the training courses people can get (such as when you learn to drive a bus, truck or even fly a plane) to start up a railway company?
Assuming I had the financial backing, it's no big deal for me to buy some buses, get trained up, or get staff trained up. While aviation is more costly, I can actually see a way of starting up companies there and sources of information.
Transparency seems to be a problem throughout the rail industry, it’s a virtually a closed shop and over regulated. Perhaps something that needs to be addressed in general?
I dunno whether anyone knows this, but because of the financial services act, companies are under no obligation to disclose unit costs, revenues and profits. Which is problematic for us debating it, or for that matter any of us starting up an open access rail company ourselves?
Could this be why GC are adjusting prices are they are going along, as they weren’t 100% sure of revenues?
Say railuk wanted to start up their own open access company, running from Glasgow-London, via the S&C, Leeds and Sheffield - Just how would you go about doing it? How would you get cost projections and passenger projections? Where are the training courses people can get (such as when you learn to drive a bus, truck or even fly a plane) to start up a railway company?
Assuming I had the financial backing, it's no big deal for me to buy some buses, get trained up, or get staff trained up. While aviation is more costly, I can actually see a way of starting up companies there and sources of information.
Transparency seems to be a problem throughout the rail industry, it’s a virtually a closed shop and over regulated. Perhaps something that needs to be addressed in general?
Sir_Clagalot
Member
- Joined
- 9 Aug 2007
- Messages
- 853
the fares and fare structures were ALWAYS going to be looked at, as they havent changed in a few years (other than a small increase). The new timetables in May will, I believe, see a new fare structure, with peak and off-peak fares, but dont hold me to that!
The issue of the new fares structure is covered here http://railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=199571 (I've just posted an update), but for me it raises as many questions as it does answers!
I can see GC fares fitting into this structure by carrying out points 1-4 posted above.
I can see GC fares fitting into this structure by carrying out points 1-4 posted above.
alex57601
Member
- Joined
- 24 Feb 2008
- Messages
- 269
Anyone heard the talk today that GC are to take on 2 Class 180s?
Apparently if it's true they are to be in service from the May timetable change, and its to provide service backup when a HST fails (I'm told they're not very reliable at the moment) and also to allow the creation of a fourth Sunderland-King's Cross and return service.
Apparently if it's true they are to be in service from the May timetable change, and its to provide service backup when a HST fails (I'm told they're not very reliable at the moment) and also to allow the creation of a fourth Sunderland-King's Cross and return service.
Nym
Established Member
I still think the likes of HT should extend their service to Beverley, Driffeild and Bridlington, it would damn well be used, especialy in peak hours (there's a lot of commuters)
Sir_Clagalot
Member
- Joined
- 9 Aug 2007
- Messages
- 853
more like October for the 180s, perhaps we will get them in May, and we all need training on them...
Nym
Established Member
GC could have the 180s hehehe
heheheSir_Clagalot
Member
- Joined
- 9 Aug 2007
- Messages
- 853
2's enough thanks!!
Hello Yorkie! Finally put the name to the face!
Hello Yorkie! Finally put the name to the face!
Techniquest
Veteran Member
I've seen it mentioned on WNXX, 0910 SUN - KGX and 19xx back I believe was quoted, with the fourth path having now been confirmed.
Not heard how true the rumour is regarding the GC 180s, but I doubt it'll happen.
But that's a simplistic way of looking at it, and I've heard the new diagram might not be the two new paths.
Instead, the diagrams may be changed to incorporate the new paths. They want the 180s on the lighter used services. Ideally the 1127 from Kings Cross, or the 1230 Sunderland-London, although obviously it can only be one of these plus something else.
But it's just speculation until much nearer the time!
Obviously I'll be avoiding the 180s, so I am keen to know which ones to avoid when the time comes
diligentdave
Member
- Joined
- 20 Oct 2007
- Messages
- 338
[/QUOTE]
Obviously I'll be avoiding the 180s, so I am keen to know which ones to avoid when the time comes[/QUOTE]
They will be coming and the 9am service is what they are for.All I can say is,watch this space
Obviously I'll be avoiding the 180s, so I am keen to know which ones to avoid when the time comes
[/QUOTE]They will be coming and the 9am service is what they are for.All I can say is,watch this space
BOSCH
Member
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2007
- Messages
- 492
You getting yourself "genned up" for their arrival dave ? fault finding etc,you could be busy,lol !!!:?
Donny Dave
Established Member
I have my doubts, as this is too late to operate the 1127 off KGX, and a 180 is unsuitable to work the 1650 or 19xx. when asked about the 19xx someone "in the know" at GC said they'd need an HST for that service.
How Many Seats does a GC hst have as opposed to a 180? I wouldnt have thought there was much in it and a 10 car 180 would win hands down.
devon_metro
Established Member
But that's a simplistic way of looking at it, and I've heard the new diagram might not be the two new paths.
Instead, the diagrams may be changed to incorporate the new paths. They want the 180s on the lighter used services. Ideally the 1127 from Kings Cross, or the 1230 Sunderland-London, although obviously it can only be one of these plus something else.
But it's just speculation until much nearer the time!
Obviously I'll be avoiding the 180s, so I am keen to know which ones to avoid when the time comes
Is the 1127 not formed by the down 'peak' run?
It's not just about seats, there's comfort too (they have advertised having extra legroom and the 180s do not have as much! Also, wireless - has that been done in 180s? are there any issues there?) but also they want a restaurant on certain services, which the 180s can't provide.
I think it's going to be a while before we find out what the diagrams are going to be, because there's loads of issues for them to consider, plus it depends on what NR will agree to.
While it is possible the unit could stable in London for most of the day, I don't see how that can work with crew rosters, and it just doesn't seem sensible to me. I could be wrong, but I doubt the 180s will do the 0910 and 19xx.
I think it's going to be a while before we find out what the diagrams are going to be, because there's loads of issues for them to consider, plus it depends on what NR will agree to.
While it is possible the unit could stable in London for most of the day, I don't see how that can work with crew rosters, and it just doesn't seem sensible to me. I could be wrong, but I doubt the 180s will do the 0910 and 19xx.
It is.
- Status