EM2
Established Member
What, be misinformed?
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ECML Disruption - Saturday 27th December
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Not sure what his hounding about being in Cornwall was about, either - I don't think his presence in London would make things happen faster (it might look better to the media if he had his sleeves up, but that's about it).
As much as Murnaghan might think that Cornwall is a technological backwater (and Cameron might actually have been able to use his phone if it was on a good network), we do have broadband down here (some places have much better connectivity than you can get in London), perfectly sufficient for him to stay in constant contact via email/phone/video calls/whatever NR uses if NR thinks that's an appropriate method of staying in contact.
It's great fun watching the media and select career politicians suddenly decide that they are now rail construction/project management experts though
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What about other industries?
I bet most of them are not sitting beside the phone on their day off waiting for a call!
I see people are being very specific on who they chose as being flexible/professional/whatever to prove their point, but hey anything to stick it to the railstaff on here isnt it! :roll:
Long discussion here, a few general points.
The passengers contact is with the TOC, East Coast and GN, from whose top management I have heard nothing. Maybe I've missed them somehow, but you have to ask what value they are adding to their customer-facing business apart from trying to sloping-shoulder it all off on Network Rail.
It's up to the TOC to organise their suppliers, Network Rail, train leasing companies, fuel suppliers, whoever, to provide an adequate service. Yes, this means you have to get at what they are proposing to do and control any stupidities in their plans.
Regarding working over Christmas, this does seem to be becoming a nonsense and a regular source of big troubles and overruns. The main issue is that all your supplier base are on holiday or minimal staffing should you need them. apparently a crane breaking down was one of the issues. So you've hired the crane but the fitters are on holiday. Or if you have a crane hirer's fitter (and you can bet the most junior and inexperienced will have drawn the short straw for this duty) the parts store is closed. Or if they can be opened up but are out of stock, the supplier or manufacturer is not there, or you can't get any lorry to deliver it, or ....... it's the most inappropriate time of the year to try and do something big and complex.
I see "Lessons will be learned". Presumably the same lessons that were "learned" after the Rugby Christmas fiasco of a couple of years ago. Let alone the lesson of planning big works around London on both WCML and ECML, plus whatever went awry at Paddington, plus all the rest of the works that were organisationally screwed up.
I see junior minister Claire Perry did a eulogistic "aren't Network Rail wonderful doing all this clever work over Christmas" press release just before the break. What an embarrassment. I wonder when David Cameron will make clear to ministers that their job is to represent their constituents and the country, the tens of thousands who had their travel plans wrecked, rather than signing self-serving press releases dreamt up by some DfT toady about what a good job everyone is going to be doing.
The passengers contact is with the TOC, East Coast and GN, from whose top management I have heard nothing. Maybe I've missed them somehow, but you have to ask what value they are adding to their customer-facing business apart from trying to sloping-shoulder it all off on Network Rail.
It's up to the TOC to organise their suppliers, Network Rail, train leasing companies, fuel suppliers, whoever, to provide an adequate service. Yes, this means you have to get at what they are proposing to do and control any stupidities in their plans.
Regarding working over Christmas, this does seem to be becoming a nonsense and a regular source of big troubles and overruns. The main issue is that all your supplier base are on holiday or minimal staffing should you need them. apparently a crane breaking down was one of the issues. So you've hired the crane but the fitters are on holiday. Or if you have a crane hirer's fitter (and you can bet the most junior and inexperienced will have drawn the short straw for this duty) the parts store is closed. Or if they can be opened up but are out of stock, the supplier or manufacturer is not there, or you can't get any lorry to deliver it, or ....... it's the most inappropriate time of the year to try and do something big and complex.
I see "Lessons will be learned". Presumably the same lessons that were "learned" after the Rugby Christmas fiasco of a couple of years ago. Let alone the lesson of planning big works around London on both WCML and ECML, plus whatever went awry at Paddington, plus all the rest of the works that were organisationally screwed up.
I see junior minister Claire Perry did a eulogistic "aren't Network Rail wonderful doing all this clever work over Christmas" press release just before the break. What an embarrassment. I wonder when David Cameron will make clear to ministers that their job is to represent their constituents and the country, the tens of thousands who had their travel plans wrecked, rather than signing self-serving press releases dreamt up by some DfT toady about what a good job everyone is going to be doing.
cf111
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I think it depends on how much you're getting compensated and what is in your contract.
If I was offered, say, an extra £5k a year for being on call then I might consider it. £25 each time? No thank you, I work to live not the other way around.
I don't work on the railways by the way, I just think it's a bit harsh to expect someone to sit around waiting for a phone-call for a relative pittance just in case something goes wrong. This is before even thinking of how you would work out the rotas given the limited time train crew can work - that is much closer to my day job and it gives me cold sweats just thinking about it.
They are also missing the point that nearly all traincrew would be working their normal shift on the 27th anyway, it isnt like a lot of industries where less than 50% of the normal workforce are in just to keep the place ticking over!
Perhaps Murnaghan believes it's unfair for all Network Rail staff to get 75% off their season tickets.
Someone needs to quiz him on his view o the subject. Wonder if he would do a u-turn on his views?
I am so glad it is not just me thinking this. Someone really should have shown face by lunchtime on Tuesday that is not acceptable at all.
dk1
Veteran Member
You're doing ok though. Only 12 late wheras some in front are up to 57 down
I'm on the 0943 from Euston via Birmingham to Glasgow. Currently 32L having just passed an EC HST at Carlisle. I can bet we will fall just under the magic half hour late by the time we make Glasgow!
samuelmorris
Established Member
Is that anything to do with this? I'm puzzled by the call at Haymarket seemingly after Edinburgh...
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y62123/2014/12/30/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y62123/2014/12/30/advanced
steverailer
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Speaking from experience of the company I work for, all our fitter were out over the period, on a job like the one which went wrong fitter cover would have been booked with each firm that supplied plant. I do know that they carry a large amount of spares on their vans. On our firm the junior fitters were actually out operating and our more experienced guys provided the cover.
What do you suggest? Some of these jobs need a possession of 36hrs plus to complete, they are planned for the xmas and easter holidays because there is very little commuter traffic. Would the travelling public and TOC's be happy with closure of Kings Cross for 2 days in the middle of the working week?
As for the bosses being there on site to supervise, the best place for them is out of the way in the office. Let the guys on the ground, who do these works everyday, deal with it. Do they actually know how to install track or a cantelever? No, they may have seen them on their PTS (if they actually hold it), but most have never actually done it. What they can actually do is grow some balls and tell the TOC's that the job will take 48hrs and not cow down to what the TOC's tell them they will allow. After all NWR own the bloody line. It may cause some agro, but the job will have a contingency in for a problem, the TOC's and public will be able to have arranged other travel plans, and the job will be done on time. The works are not done for fun, they are to improve the infrastructure, and hopefully, reduce delays from faulty equipment.
But what do I know, I'm only a lowly maintainance worker
You need your tin hat. I am a professional driver and this is the first Christmas holiday that I've not been rostered since 2010. I worked until 11pm on Christmas Eve. I worked until 11pm on Boxing Day to cover someone who couldn't make it, as well as an extra train to cover a late arrival. Without a doubt it would have been cancelled if I hadn't offered. I will return on New Year's Eve and work for 7 days, including getting up early to work New Year's Day and another weekend. I used to get most of Christmas week off for no loss of pay when I worked 9-5. Don't tell me and my colleagues that are we are not professional for not wanting to be on call (ie not being able to drink, go far, or sleep properly) when everyone else is enjoying their Christmas holiday. If the people who run the railway can't manage their engineering works it is not our fault nor our obligation to get them out of a hole.
dk1
Veteran Member
amcluesent
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Questions now must be asked if NR fit for purpose to dispense the £6B it receives as £4B directly from the taxpayer plus £2B from the taxpayer via TOC access charges.
From ORR, 'GB rail industry financial information 2012-13'
From ORR, 'GB rail industry financial information 2012-13'
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Without doubt NR messed up big style of Christmas but the point about hearing nothing from top brass at East Coast and Great Northern is highly relevant.
I'm sure that on paper the revised timetable was feasible but the issue was over crowding at Finsbury Park which is something both EC and GN could have foreseen and done something about. For example setting up queueing systems outside the station, one way system inside the station, people with megaphones directing people to the exit to clear the station as quickly as possible after an arrival.
Of course once it started going wrong it was like a pack of cards.
There's also the issue of running 4 carriage trains, not directing Cambridge passengers to Liverpool Street etc.
I'm sure that on paper the revised timetable was feasible but the issue was over crowding at Finsbury Park which is something both EC and GN could have foreseen and done something about. For example setting up queueing systems outside the station, one way system inside the station, people with megaphones directing people to the exit to clear the station as quickly as possible after an arrival.
Of course once it started going wrong it was like a pack of cards.
There's also the issue of running 4 carriage trains, not directing Cambridge passengers to Liverpool Street etc.
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samuelmorris
Established Member
Fun times, York service came to a stand at Alexandra Palace for a few minutes then the 'attention guard, please contact the driver' message was played - just pulled in front of a Cambridge 321 onto the Hertford line owing to some problems at Potters Bar. Not sure what the issue is yet, but that was a remarkably quick response to it.
Me too. Network Rail's job is to provide the infrastructure and paths over it (which in this case it once again notably failed to do, and where its own CEO has certainly not managed to play his (poor) hand as well as he might have done).
But the passenger's contract is indeed with the TOC, and it is the TOCs that have the job of relating directly to the passengers (or customers) and looking after them - and sorting their journeys out where necessary. So surely it must have been down to GN and EC to plan how to look after the numbers they expected at Finsbury Park, provide enough staff to do that job, provide enough information to their customers about what was going on -- and organise things on the platforms far better than they did. This isn't the first time Finsbury Park has been used for turning long-distance trains, so surely there must have been some idea of what would be involved.
Yet whilst the press and the politicians are (rightly, in my opinion) slating Network Rail, they don't really seem to be assigning very much blame at all to the two TOCs. It would be very interesting to know which senior members of the TOC staff were shewing their faces at Finsbury Park on Saturday.
Is it just me or does the "attention guard please contact driver" announcement sound a bit unprofessional? Shouldn't they be in direct communication?
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cf111
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I've never thought of it as such. All the Guard needs to do is pick up a handset after hearing the message. The nature of the job means that they could be anywhere on the train so a ringing phone probably isn't the best. The trains were built before widespread mobile phone use too.
samuelmorris
Established Member
To 'people like us' not so much, but to the regular traveling public, yes I think it does seem a little unprofessional, but there you go...
Good post
The bosses would just slow things down and divert attention
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ModernRailways
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Shouldn't be too bad, but then again who knows. You could always pretend to book a ticket and have a look at what the seat reservations are like right now that should give a rough estimate?
Fishplate84
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I find it really irritating that everyone goes into meltdown at this. There was a huge amount of work being done at the quietest time of year. Yes it overran but into what? The weekend between Christmas and New Year. Hardly into the rush hour peak. Some people are inconvenienced, but the railway doesn't say what the work was or what it is trying to achieve. Instead, a grovelling apology, the regulator steps in to kick ass - and isn't it the regulator forcing NR so hard to be more efficient and do more with less money, i.e., get decent chunks of engineering work done in one go and not the usual ridiculously wasteful circus of 3 hours actual work in an entire overnight possession.
Sure things could have been handled much better but the Transport Minister and Unions would do well to remember that the chain of command for both NR and East Coast lead right to his door. They are nationalised operators. It does demonstrate that the nationalised infrastructure owner is just as likely as the private one to fail in delivery, and the nationalised TOC is just as hopeless as the private one for its contingency planning. My take on it is stuff happens, get over it. A few discretionary travellers were inconvenienced but I'd hope they are also the ones who'll benefit from the significant amount of engineering work that got done.
Sure things could have been handled much better but the Transport Minister and Unions would do well to remember that the chain of command for both NR and East Coast lead right to his door. They are nationalised operators. It does demonstrate that the nationalised infrastructure owner is just as likely as the private one to fail in delivery, and the nationalised TOC is just as hopeless as the private one for its contingency planning. My take on it is stuff happens, get over it. A few discretionary travellers were inconvenienced but I'd hope they are also the ones who'll benefit from the significant amount of engineering work that got done.
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
The Remuneration Committee is made up of their own !!!
I know, I think exactly the same every time I go into Tesco's and they make an accouncement asking for someone to go to the checkouts, or a member of staff to go to clothing, or a cleaner to go to aisle 13. Why can't they all just use crystal balls instead?
They are in direct communication which is what that message alludes to, they don't send out carrier pigeons!
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