West Coast Railways Suspended (now reinstated)

[D1009]

I suspect that the below in the Network Rail letter probably covers what was used to avoid the AWS brake application:-

"2. Demonstrate there is in place an effective and secure system of tamper-evident seals for train
protection isolator cocks on all relevant traction"

Sorry, not being particularly technically minded, but what are tamper-evident seals?

 

[Argosy]

I agree - especially the 'completely avoidable' part.

And some people are talking about this as a 'loss of licence' - this is currently a temporary suspension of the right to operate on the network, while investigations are carried out into safety related issues. If WCR have any sense at all, they should be moving heaven and earth to get their safety management systems sorted out as quickly as possible.

Yes but surely it is like a UK airline losing its CAA operating licence and they still have tac's to pay.

 

[dgl]

Sorry, not being particularly technically minded, but what are tamper-evident seals?

Some form of non repairable seal that stops the switch or whatever in question from being operated without breaking seal. This prevents a switch etc. from being reset without someone knowing.

 

[Tomnick]

Sorry, not being particularly technically minded, but what are tamper-evident seals?

It's simply a means of proving that a particular action has been taken, usually by means of a special seal (or tag) placed such that the action can't be carried out without breaking the seal (or tag). Some domestic equipment has a similar seal ("warranty void if seal broken") to ensure that you can't go poking around inside and deny it later!

 

[D1009]

Thanks, do companies other than WCR already have this, or has this become a new requirement on operators of heritage traction?

 

[Tracky]

It is normal practice in the rail industry.

Rules and regulation, procedures and safety management.

 

[alexl92]

Anyone else seen this?
http://www.westcoastrailways.co.uk/download/Important.pdf

Who's the alternative operators?

 

[ac6000cw]

Yes but surely it is like a UK airline losing its CAA operating licence and they still have tac's to pay.

Yes, I assume WCR are losing money and customers while the suspension is in force - as ainsworth74 said, this should be a powerful incentive to get things sorted out as quickly as possible....

 

[Tracky]

Anyone else seen this?
http://www.westcoastrailways.co.uk/download/Important.pdf

Who's the alternative operators?

DB are operating one tomorrow. They can do diesel hauled charters and air braked steam hauled trains. Subject to resources of course.

DRS can take diesel hauled trips too.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Sorry, not being particularly technically minded, but what are tamper-evident seals?

An example can be seen on the electricity meter in most domestic premises.

 

[causton]

Sorry, not being particularly technically minded, but what are tamper-evident seals?

There's an example. If you turn the lever you break the seal and therefore can't reset it and claim nothing happened!

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Another slightly different example here, same principle applies.

 

[Llanigraham]

And the Rule Book is quite specific; if they are isolated then the Signaller has to be informed immediately. According to the RAIB pre-report that did not appear to be done.

 

[fsmr]

And the Rule Book is quite specific; if they are isolated then the Signaller has to be informed immediately. According to the RAIB pre-report that did not appear to be done.

Like any safety critical industry The consequences of trying to cover up a mistake are always far more serious than the original error.
Always best to be honest and hold your hand up

A professional competent driver would know that and the reasons behind the rule, not just to prevent a subsequent imminent accident but also as a learning point so no excuse IMHO but then none of us were there
However RAIB must already be fairly clear on what went on on-board the footplate that day

 

[fishquinn]

Anyone else seen this?
http://www.westcoastrailways.co.uk/download/Important.pdf

Who's the alternative operators?

EWS are doing one today with 67026 and 67005. But what will they do for the Cumbrian Mountain Express on the 11th of April? 87002 to Preston for a pair of DRS 37s forward? That would be brilliant!

 

[fsmr]

I wondered how long before Harry Potter got involved
Bit in todays Mail about Hogwarts Express being run by WCR and the license

The company which operates steam train excursions across some of Britain’s most picturesque routes has been temporarily banned from operating following the ‘most serious’ case of a near collision so far this year.

Services by West Coast Railways, which includes the Hogwarts Express from the Harry Potter films, have been suspended following the incident on March 7 in which a train failed to stop at a signal.

According to reports, a 100mph collision between a steam excursion and a First Great Western high speed train was missed by barely a minute.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-network-100mph-near-miss.html#ixzz3WKwO38GR
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lms-banned-rail-network-100mph-near-miss.html

 

[pippindoo]

In both of the earlier 'IMHO's, have you considered the time factor between the 'isolation' and the train coming to a stand so the driver can contact the signaller. 120 seconds? 180 seconds?? A Driver isn't required to immediately abandon all control of his train to get straight on the radio and report what he may/may not have done!

Pippindoo (who MAY feature in various online photos/videos in WCRC driving cabs)

 

[kieron]

I look forward to May 15th with interest...

While some of the steps will take time to organise, I'm sure WCR will want this resolved before then.

Especially if WCR's competitors are busy ringing around their clients to let them know what they can offer at short notice.

 

[Juniper Driver]

http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/20...spended-after-running-red-light-in-wiltshire/

Just found this,had heard about it at work.Not sure I like the term "running red light."

Isn't that an American term?

 

[alexl92]

http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/20...spended-after-running-red-light-in-wiltshire/

Just found this,had heard about it at work.Not sure I like the term "running red light."

Isn't that an American term?

Running a red light is a term I've always heard used both for motoring and railways. 'running red light' is just a press headline - excluding unnecessary words for space reasons.

 

[SPADTrap]

Running a red light is a term I've always heard used both for motoring and railways. 'running red light' is just a press headline - excluding unnecessary words for space reasons.

Typical of the press to intentionally mislead with headlines as IMO that seems to hint towards there being some intent!

 

[RAPC]

Typical of the press to intentionally mislead with headlines as IMO that seems to hint towards there being some intent!

Running a red light can be intentional or unintentional, so not sure I agree with that.

 

[Llanigraham]

In both of the earlier 'IMHO's, have you considered the time factor between the 'isolation' and the train coming to a stand so the driver can contact the signaller. 120 seconds? 180 seconds?? A Driver isn't required to immediately abandon all control of his train to get straight on the radio and report what he may/may not have done!

Pippindoo (who MAY feature in various online photos/videos in WCRC driving cabs)

I know exactly what the Rule Book says.
He should have contacted the signaller when he was at a stand, mentioning several facts.
According to the RAIB report he didn't!

 

[pippindoo]

I know exactly what the Rule Book says.
He should have contacted the signaller when he was at a stand, mentioning several facts.
According to the RAIB report he didn't!

Aha, he didnt , so how does anybody know about this incident? And a Driver doesn't 'mention it', he is asked specific questions by the signaller to which he replies.

 

[carriageline]

Aha, he didnt , so how does anybody know about this incident? And a Driver doesn't 'mention it', he is asked specific questions by the signaller to which he replies.

Contacting the signaller about what the driver done is quite low on the list of things to investigate.

Plus, our Llanigraham is an experienced signaller.

 

[pippindoo]

On the contrary, the initial contact between the Driver and controlling Signaller is one of the most important parts of any investigation, and an experienced Signaller knows that, which is why the questions are specific and not open to misinterpretation. He also leads the conversation.

 

[carriageline]

On the contrary, the initial contact between the Driver and controlling Signaller is one of the most important parts of any investigation, and an experienced Signaller knows that, which is why the questions are specific and not open to misinterpretation. He also leads the conversation.



Wind your neck in? Oh Dear

Is it really? I disagree. For the initial AWS activation, very little will be asked by the signaller that would "aid" the investigation. The form sitting in the signallers draw hardly holds the key to all this :roll:

Yes thanks, I'm a signaller so I know that.

 

[455driver]

In both of the earlier 'IMHO's, have you considered the time factor between the 'isolation' and the train coming to a stand so the driver can contact the signaller. 120 seconds? 180 seconds?? A Driver isn't required to immediately abandon all control of his train to get straight on the radio and report what he may/may not have done!

Pippindoo (who MAY feature in various online photos/videos in WCRC driving cabs)

It could be argued that if the safety system has put the brake into emergency then the driver is no longer in control of the train, the safety system is so the driver is free to check what has caused the brake application and inform the signaller. Let's be honest, they knew what had caused it because they isolated it/ turned it off with only the loss of 8mph. You can butter it up as much as you like, they knew full well what they were doing and could have just as easily done the right thing but chose not too!

455driver who may have featured in some videos of SWT and FGW units, not that that is relevant!:roll:

 

[ainsworth74]

455driver who may have featured in some videos of SWT and FGW units, not that that is relevant!

Not the one that was filmed at the Epping and Ongar recently?

Let's keep it civil please, you're all welcome to disagree with each other (keeps things interesting) but please make sure that this disagreement stays within the rules please.

 

[455driver]

this is currently a temporary suspension of the right to operate on the network, while investigations are carried out into safety related issues. If WCR have any sense at all, they should be moving heaven and earth to get their safety management systems sorted out as quickly as possible.

Deleted to remain within the rules and not upset the delicate little wallflowers!

I see poppadom has had quite a few replies.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Let's face it there are only three words to sum this up :-

John Major - PRIVATISATION !!!

Need I say more ?

No not really, run along back to railchat and your BR love in please.