Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[LDECRexile]

I always look for the station after near the time so it shows the pass time, I put Bolton instead of Farnworth..
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Indeed they were both Colas Rail Tampers, Orange Army out in force, must have something to do with the track replacement over the weekend and the removal of the points, I was there at Blackrod from about 21.25 and got the last scheduled non stoppers through, its sounds a lot quieter now those points have been removed and the track replaced, I live not far away and you could always hear the trains rumble over that length.

Removed and replaced with plain line or replaced with new, quiet points?
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A major pleasure for me has been meeting others with a shared interest who are prepared to chip in their two penn'orth.

I've received three sets of photos today, each bringing new things to the party.

1. ALX400 not only found the workings to Blackrod, he went out and photographed them.

I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157651121057352/

2. I got talking to a chap in Kearsley station car park last Friday, we found a lot of common ground. He is Joe Callaghan. Joe has lived in Kearsley all his life bar three years. He has followed through with a selection of photos both bang up to date and from earlier this decade. I've put this mouth-watering stuff into his own album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157651953947345/

3. Joe's neighbour, Trevor Jones, shares his interest in railways and photography. Trevor has chipped a smashing shot in as well. It is in his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157651953925615/

I'm rather hoping that Joe and Trevor will let us into their archives.....

I've also put all these shots from ALX400, Joe and Trevor into the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648767927083/

Thank you ALX400, Joe and Trevor.
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I've added the photos I took yesterday to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648767927083/

I'll try to add the accompanying texts later tonight.

 

[PDG1949]

Not just us taking photos of bridge rebuilds

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailNP

- quadcopter?

 

[ironstone11]

Not just us taking photos of bridge rebuilds

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailNP

- quadcopter?

Jolly good view of Chorley Road skew bridge, which shows where the two large triangular areas of the deck have to be cast.

 

[LDECRexile]

I'm delighted that Joe Callaghan has sent seventeen more photos of the Kearsley to Moses Gate area, including the Farnworth Tunnel worksite.

I have added them to Joe's album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157651953947345/

and woven them into the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648767927083/

Thank you Joe.
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I did a tour from Broughton Road to Moses Gate today.

1. I watched Dixon Fold Bridge's span being removed.

2. I watched coping stones being lifted into place at Cock Robin Bridge.

3. I saw a ballast train at Moses Gate.

4. I laid eyes on mast bases in the Brindle Heath and Agecroft areas.

5. I explored Cemetery Bridge. I now believe I mis-identified it in a recent photoset. I think it may have been completed, rather than be a non-starter. Does anyone know better?

6. Considerable progress at Broughton Road bridge.

7. I reviewed Motorway Crossing, Clifton Country Park Crossing, Dean Clough Bridge and Ladybridge Bridge. Little change visible at any of these, though I was not near Dean Clough.

A grand day out.

Photos and films later, probably tomorrow.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Cemetary Road Bridge at Farnworth is the one next to the station entrance, right at the south end of the station and gets rebuilt late on in the "blockade", so late August.

I don't believe the remaining FP crossing closures / footbridge replacements have even been awarded to anyone yet!

 

[LDECRexile]

Cemetary Road Bridge at Farnworth is the one next to the station entrance, right at the south end of the station and gets rebuilt late on in the "blockade", so late August.

I don't believe the remaining FP crossing closures / footbridge replacements have even been awarded to anyone yet!

I've been poring over maps and yesterday's photos and arrived at the conclusion that I am serially bonkers, with Cemetery Road having been staring me in the face all along, south of the station, not one of the aesthetically pleasing succession of bridges north of Farnworth station.

I then open the forum and find your characteristically helpful and informative message confirming it.

Thank you.

Dave

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I've been poring over maps and yesterday's photos and arrived at the conclusion that I am serially bonkers, with Cemetery Road having been staring me in the face all along, south of the station, not one of the aesthetically pleasing succession of bridges north of Farnworth station.

I then open the forum and find your characteristically helpful and informative message confirming it.

Thank you.Dave

Between us all we will get there Dave. Thanks for all your hard work as usual.

 

[Howardh]

Regarding single line running during the building; I've not gone through all 43 pages so please forgive me if this has been mentioned - was there any consideration to completely closing Bolton - Salford Crescent and running shuttle trains Bolton > Hindley < Manchester (or Salford Crescent) and the driver having to change ends at Hindley? Neither Bolton/Wigan or Wigan/Manchester are over-used so a few extra trains wouldn't hurt, and the journey with just that one stop to change would take, what, 35-45 mins, far quicker than the r/r bus during peak hours?

 

[Darren R]

Regarding single line running during the building; I've not gone through all 43 pages so please forgive me if this has been mentioned - was there any consideration to completely closing Bolton - Salford Crescent and running shuttle trains Bolton > Hindley < Manchester (or Salford Crescent) and the driver having to change ends at Hindley? Neither Bolton/Wigan or Wigan/Manchester are over-used so a few extra trains wouldn't hurt, and the journey with just that one stop to change would take, what, 35-45 mins, far quicker than the r/r bus during peak hours?

Well I remember it being considered at length on here! Whether the affected TOCs and Network Rail considered it is quite another matter though!

Joking apart, there are problems with capacity on the Atherton line due to the signalling lengths along the route. Additionally, trains are still running via Farnworth with only marginally increased journey lengths. It would take twice as long if trains were diverted via Hindley instead.

 

[ALX400]

I happen to have been in the area of Buckshaw Village tonight 18th, and noticed some red marker lights on the tracks flashing away just before the turn onto the WCML at Euxton Junction couldn't see any work going on by means of road/rail equipment or Orangemen.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

I happen to have been in the area of Buckshaw Village tonight 18th, and noticed some red marker lights on the tracks flashing away just before the turn onto the WCML at Euxton Junction couldn't see any work going on by means of road/rail equipment or Orangemen.

Protection for an Euxton Junction possession; the signal protecting the junction is PN34, which you can see from the station.

 

[LDECRexile]

I've added photos and films from Saturday to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648767927083/

 

[snowball]

A fascinating collection, thank you. I've only glanced at them yet, will study later.

Not all the new parapets come with pre-applied simulated facing bricks. NR's northern programme Twitter feed has pictures of pink facing blocks being laid on the parapets at Rawlinson Lane bridge. Probably artificial stone, but real blocks, manually laid.

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailNP

Edit: the aerial view below the top two pictures appears to be Rawlinson Lane as it was a few weeks ago.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Following LCEDRexile's welcome news of a "base breakout" near Agecroft last week, I counted 11 bases there on the Down and 9 on the Up today.
They are in two clumps, mostly just east of Agecroft North Jn, but also some through Pendleton.
That's in addition to the lone base at Windsor Bridge North Jn (west side) which has been there since Christmas.
There didn't seem to be any change to the installations between Lostock and Chorley.

I suppose we should now measure progress over the whole length of the Salford Central/Ordsall Lane-Euxton section.
This is 25 route miles or 40 km, so that means 600 structures (portals or pairs of cantilevers) at 15 structures/km.
With 127 bases west of Lostock and now 10 east of there (averaging both tracks), we now have 23% of the Phase 4 route bases in.

All was very quiet at the Phase 1/2 electrification base at Edge Hill today.
I'm not sure where the resources for the Bolton route electrification are coming from.
There are several Balfour Beatty access/work sites along the route, but some of these may be for bridge work rather than electrification.
None of them appears to have any stocks of piles, masts etc.
The worksite near Salford Central which has been used for the Victoria wiring may be involved of course.
A new one appears to be taking shape on the north side of the line about a mile west of Bolton.

 

[snowball]

With 127 bases west of Lostock and now 10 east of there (averaging both tracks), we now have 23% of the Phase 4 route bases in.

Don't forget the bases between Salford Central and Windsor Bridge South.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Don't forget the bases between Salford Central and Windsor Bridge South.

Well spotted - that makes it 25%.

 

[LDECRexile]

Well spotted - that makes it 25%.

I've added new lines 83 and 84 to the Progressometer as a first stab at reflecting this.

The key data is in line 83 where I have tried to translate and extrapolate 15 pairs per km to masts (bases) per Km then added bits for Windsor Link and Deal St Jn to Windsor Bridge South Jn arriving at a target number of masts (bases) of 1230. (Phew!)

I am well aware of the seductive powers of spurious precision, but I reckon we need to agree a target figure then stick with it.

It would help my brain cell if we could stick to one set of units of measurement in terms of:

Miles and chains vs Metric
and
Masts and bases vs pairs

My own dream report is the one submitted today in which you say x bases on the Up and y bases on the Down between A and B, where A and B are recognisable to laymen like me 'on the ground'. I can then refer to TRACKmaps and translate Up and Down if necessary and pinpoint A and B if there is any confusion. I hope the 'boundaries' between 'sections' on the Progressometer are clear to any layman new to the line, ie just look out of the carriage window or over the fence.

If a layman can understand it then so can an expert, but not necessarily t'other way round.

Next question: is 26% good or bad?

Cock Robin Footbridge might be open by now, in which case we'll have a whole new vantage point northwards: double Yippee I reckon.

Have fun

Dave

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The key data is in line 83 where I have tried to translate and extrapolate 15 pairs per km to masts (bases) per Km then added bits for Windsor Link and Deal St Jn to Windsor Bridge South Jn arriving at a target number of masts (bases) of 1230. (Phew!)

I am well aware of the seductive powers of spurious precision, but I reckon we need to agree a target figure then stick with it.

1230 is fine, Dave.
The 15/km is a figure I got from the GW environmental statement, and they say the actual number varies depending on things like obstacles and curvature etc.
I know we're all impatient for progress, but 25% seems pretty good to me compared to the current situation in the Thames Valley!
Be nice to see a few masts though.
Six months of all-weekend possessions should make for good progress I hope.

 

[TrickyHex]

There is a small error on the spreadsheet.
You have 2 x Kearsley station lines and no Farnworth.

Having said thst, you are doing a great job. Keep upmthe good work.

 

[LDECRexile]

There is a small error on the spreadsheet.
You have 2 x Kearsley station lines and no Farnworth.

Having said thst, you are doing a great job. Keep upmthe good work.

Oops, good spot, thanks, and thanks for the kind remarks.

Corrected version below.

Dave

 

[LDECRexile]

1230 is fine, Dave.
The 15/km is a figure I got from the GW environmental statement, and they say the actual number varies depending on things like obstacles and curvature etc.
I know we're all impatient for progress, but 25% seems pretty good to me compared to the current situation in the Thames Valley!
Be nice to see a few masts though.
Six months of all-weekend possessions should make for good progress I hope.

Agreed all round

Kind regards

Dave

 

[snowball]

I think I once read somewhere that they try to avoid having too many consecutive equal distances between OHLE supports, to avoid standing waves developing in the wire, or for some such reason. However I think 15 per km (= 24 per mile = 3 per 10 chains = 1 per 220 ft) is right for the average.

 

[LDECRexile]

I'm delighted that Bill Morton has sent three new photos for publication.

I've added them to Bill's album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157650900509369/

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648767927083/

Thank you Bill.
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I think I once read somewhere that they try to avoid having too many consecutive equal distances between OHLE supports, to avoid standing waves developing in the wire, or for some such reason. However I think 15 per km (= 24 per mile = 3 per 10 chains = 1 per 220 ft) is right for the average.

'OHLE supports'?

2 masts, 1 pair, except sometimes we have TTCs when it's one support/mast/base for two wires.

Whether we call it 15/km or 30/km it's fine by me, as long as we are consistent and clear. Personally I reckon mast (base) is the more atomic therefore the base unit of measurement. It's also easier on the brain cell as I can use pencil and five bar gates when travelling on one side of a train!

Ee, it's fun.

 

[snowball]

Just to clarify, I wasn't attempting to express an opinion on the counting method (whether a pair of masts counts as 1 or 2). I was just agreeing with the adopted figure for the average spacing.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Its all a bit complicated: maximum registration spacing on phase 4 (which uses the Series II design range) is 60m, but this can come down as low as 20m on curves like the one north of Bolton. Also, one base could be for one or two (or even more) registration points, or you might need two bases for one registration (on a portal).

 

[LDECRexile]

Its all a bit complicated: maximum registration spacing on phase 4 (which uses the Series II design range) is 60m, but this can come down as low as 20m on curves like the one north of Bolton. Also, one base could be for one or two (or even more) registration points, or you might need two bases for one registration (on a portal).

Thank you

Is a 'registration' somewhere where a wire is grabbed hold of?

If it is then on Phase 2 I can think of examples where:

1 mast one registration (the commonest)
1 mast two registrations (TTCs)
1 mast three registrations (lop-sided T shaped masts, eg near Roby)
0 mast one registration (eg under bridges)
0 mast two registrations (eg under bridges)
1 mast no registrations (eg ones bearing tensioners only, eg Man Vic east)

I'm sure there are other combinations.

Counting masts and bases does not purport to be anything more than a performance indicator accessible to folks like me with reasonable eyesight but only one brain cell.

I find counting them individually is much easier, and therefore more reliable, than in pairs because I typically travel on one side of a train looking out of one side. We can always count up from individual instances, divvying up pairs seems an unnecessary complication.

On the subject of completion, where will Phase 4 juice come from? On Phase 2 whopping great electric clobber was built at Tuebrook, Huyton Quarry and Newton-le-Willows. I haven't seen owt similar on Phase 4.

Dave

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If it is then on Phase 2 I can think of examples where:

1 mast one registration (the commonest)
1 mast two registrations (TTCs)
1 mast three registrations (lop-sided T shaped masts, eg near Roby)
0 mast one registration (eg under bridges)
0 mast two registrations (eg under bridges)
1 mast no registrations (eg ones bearing tensioners only, eg Man Vic east)

I'm sure there are other combinations.

Just to set another cat among the pigeons, I don't count the second base of "twin" bases where the second is just for an anchor to the first...
This is usually where there are going to be tensioners or other complications up above.

 

[LDECRexile]

Just to set another cat among the pigeons, I don't count the second base of "twin" bases where the second is just for an anchor to the first...
This is usually where there are going to be tensioners or other complications up above.

Me neither, an example is in Photo 3868l at Agecroft published yesterday.

In my ignorance I call bases such as the one nearer the camera on the right 'concrete tent pegs' as that is the function they serve when up and running. A 'guy rope' is attached to the loop in the 'peg' and stretched taut to the top of the adjacent mast, as in pitching a tent.

I'm off grandadding for the day now. Have fun.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

On the subject of completion, where will Phase 4 juice come from? On Phase 2 whopping great electric clobber was built at Tuebrook, Huyton Quarry and Newton-le-Willows. I haven't seen owt similar on Phase 4.

Tuebrook and Huyton (and Ordsall Lane) are just switching stations, only N-le-W is a feeder (and what a feeder it is, one of the biggest I believe).

Phase 4 (and five, and 7) will normally be fed from a new Grid Feeder at Stalybridge, but the north end can be supplied from Euxton if required.

Since phase 4 is so long, "whopping great electric clobber" will appear at intermediate points on the route; I'd say at three roughly equally spaced points (say around 6, 12 and 18 miles along the route).

I don't think there will be any capability built into Phase 7 (Lostock Junction to Wigan NW) to allow Bolton to be fed from the Wigan end, but you never know...

 

[snowball]

I'm glad somebody has raised the issue of feeding because there's a question I've been meaning to ask.

After the closure of Woodhead, and after the conversion of Glossop/Hadfield to 25kV, and before the wiring of Chat Moss, was the power feed to the Glossop/Hadfield line exclusively via the Wilmslow/Styal/Macclesfield lines?