Virgin Trains removes standard class quiet zone; worst intercity TOC in living memory

[Minilad]

Ah Gotcha

 

[TheNewNo2]

Perhaps if people want to sit in something called a quiet zone they could pay a premium for it, like premium economy on the airlines. You can't just get an advance in the quiet zone for example. You can't just exclude a load of people from part of the train for reasons that are hard to enforce and not charge the people wanting to sit there more. I am sure Virgin have made a business decision on this based on some pretty hard facts. And don't get me wrong, I don't always agree with the business decisions companies make. But what am I going to do? Take my business elsewhere? I'm sure that is factored in to the business decision.

I thoroughly endorse the removal of ticket reservations from quiet coaches, it means that I might actually get a seat I'd like by turning up first!

Well, the self-appointed Quiet Coach regulars would have the parent and children thrown off their coach!

This is why FGW's quiet coaches have windows you can open.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

This is why FGW's quiet coaches have windows you can open.

Also why the former toilet has been converted into a lockable soundproof cell - to imprison miscreants.

 

[jimm]

Quiet coaches, like seat reservations, should all be removed now. They are no longer appropriate.

BR never had quiet coaches. Instead they had something far more welcome: longer trains.

Seat reservations not appropriate? You don't use XC much then, or many other parts of the network at busy times of the day, do you?

BR ceased to exist before mobiles became near-compulsory, so probably didn't worry about them over-much, especially when pretty much the entire focus of BR in its final years was on preparing for privatisation, and many of your 'longer' trains were able to carry fewer passengers than today, or were running at lower frequencies, or weren't longer at all...

So not a very appropriate argument, frankly.

 

[meridian2]

The problem with Quiet Zones, and this isn't a problem exclusive to Virgin Trains, is that it is treated like any other coach, and these days, with demand far outstripping supply, the rules of the Quiet Coach are inevitably going to be ignored.
It is a great idea ON PAPER. The idea that you have a single coach devoted to catering for the working men/women. But it has proven to be an idea at odds with reality and I believe it needs to go, people ignoring the Quiet Coach rules notwithstanding.

 

[bramling]

The problem with Quiet Zones, and this isn't a problem exclusive to Virgin Trains, is that it is treated like any other coach, and these days, with demand far outstripping supply, the rules of the Quiet Coach are inevitably going to be ignored.
It is a great idea ON PAPER. The idea that you have a single coach devoted to catering for the working men/women. But it has proven to be an idea at odds with reality and I believe it needs to go, people ignoring the Quiet Coach rules notwithstanding.

I don't see why it seems to be assumed that it's just those doing work who appreciate a quieter environment. Many lone passengers appreciate the theoretical ability to enjoy a peaceful environment. It's sad that unfortunately many trains carry around a quantity of rubbish, perhaps disproportionately more than society in general because you get many who can't afford cars who have no other means of getting around.

It's not the end of the world if you inadvertently end up in the quiet coach - it's not that much of an ask for you to stay quiet for the time in there.

I can understand it's hassle for TOCs, in particular staff who have better things to do than get involved in disputes. However I do think that they should stay, and have much more prominent signage. This would definitely improve compliance. Not all trains are busy to the point where it's impossible to find another seat elsewhere on the train -- especially on Virgin West Coast who run the longest trains in Britain.

 

[ag51ruk]

The OP is talking about the STANDARD quiet carriage going. Which is NOT happening.

Hellfire is on about the FIRST class quiet coach which is going.

The First quiet coach signs have not been removed, even on the 9 coach trains that have gone through the conversion process of coach G to F - it is due to happen in First in September

 

[fowler9]

So, when is all this supposed to be happening? I'm happily sitting in Coach H on a Euston bound Pendolino and all the Quiet Coach signs are up and people are respecting them.

I have to say I find the venom directed against supporters of a Quiet Coach astonishing. What's wrong with having a small part of the train designated for those who prefer not to listen to loud mobile phone conversations or someone else's choice of music? On a standard Pendolino there are five other standard and four first carriages. For everyone who wants to make calls. The suggestion by some posters that people should pay extra for this is ridiculous.

Note, the term is 'Quiet' not 'Silent' I don't expect everyone to sit there like statues. I also would not expect these zones on commuter trains. But, on long distance services such as the WCML it's something a lot of travellers find a benefit.

As someone who said if you want a quiet coach you should pay more for it I guess that was at least partially aimed at me. I think it would make good business sense to ask people to pay more like a premium economy on a plane. At least the staff would have some kind of back up then as in people don't have a valid ticket to be in the coach. Otherwise they could end up forcing someone with an irritable baby to go and stand in a vestibule somewhere just because where you are is a normally priced but Quiet Coach. If you just paid the same as everyone else and the train is crowded why should you get some enhanced feature for free? I do however wish people would be more considerate.

 

[transmanche]

If you just paid the same as everyone else and the train is crowded why should you get some enhanced feature for free?

You could make the same argument about seats...

 

[fowler9]

You could make the same argument about seats...

But unless we have a reserved seat we haven't paid for or are not entitled to a seat are we? Is the Quiet Zone reservation only? I honestly don't know.

If it isn't compulsory reservation then it gets complicated. Can anyone who just parked themselves in the quiet zone in an unreserved seat be allowed to complain it wasn't quiet? I would guess not. As they didn't reserve a seat they aren't even entitled to a seat, let alone for it to be quiet.

 

[driver_m]

The First quiet coach signs have not been removed, even on the 9 coach trains that have gone through the conversion process of coach G to F - it is due to happen in First in September

The internal document stated June for 9 cars and September for 11 cars. Not seen anything since then to change that. Its down to Alsthom to get them removed.

 

[Camden]

So, when is all this supposed to be happening? I'm happily sitting in Coach H on a Euston bound Pendolino and all the Quiet Coach signs are up and people are respecting them.

I have to say I find the venom directed against supporters of a Quiet Coach astonishing. What's wrong with having a small part of the train designated for those who prefer not to listen to loud mobile phone conversations or someone else's choice of music? On a standard Pendolino there are five other standard and four first carriages. For everyone who wants to make calls. The suggestion by some posters that people should pay extra for this is ridiculous.

Note, the term is 'Quiet' not 'Silent' I don't expect everyone to sit there like statues. I also would not expect these zones on commuter trains. But, on long distance services such as the WCML it's something a lot of travellers find a benefit.

I agree. In reality just getting a First ticket should be enough for a decent relaxed journey but too often it isn't, especially at the weekends.

If the Quiet First isn't available then not only will I only travel when I absolutely have to, but also I won't bother paying for First at all, as what's the point? Do Virgin think I pay out for the doily and table lamp (or their "free" "goody" bag)?

 

[capital12]

The problem isn't fixable with quiet zones, it's more fundamental and to do with that

• The people with the most annoying voices seem to be the ones that love the sound of their own voice the most
• Tedious people with nothing to say contracting verbal diarrhoea
• Tedious people unable to wait 20 minutes to speak to the person they are about to meet (ever been subjected to a half hour booming conversation on a train only for the person to say "OK well I'll see you in five"??)
• More and more people seeming to require music at full blast on their MP3 player, with headphones that may as well be speakers
• A number of people aged 30 and below who have never been taught how to behave, who open their gobs and let rip wherever they happen to be, and regardless of whoever is around them
• Working on a train? Remember the days not so long ago when people would go to the vestibule to make a mobile phone call?

It's high time we stopped pussyfooting around bad behaviour, acquiescing to it with Quiet Zones which inherently suggest that the rest of society is open territory for those that don't exhibit behaviours compatible with sharing space with others. The selfishness generally needs to be be spoken about, and people should be made to feel ashamed for imposing themselves on those around them.

Quiet Zones are pointless for this very reason. Such is the self-centred self-absorption of these people, you think The Obnoxious will even notice the sign saying "Quiet Zone"?? Let alone respect it if they do. It's a society problem, not a train one.

Spot on, totally agree.

 

[jon0844]

Quiet coaches, like seat reservations, should all be removed now. They are no longer appropriate.

If Virgin remove quiet coaches completely, won't it be harder for the driver to see where he or she is going?

 

[bramling]

As someone who said if you want a quiet coach you should pay more for it I guess that was at least partially aimed at me. I think it would make good business sense to ask people to pay more like a premium economy on a plane. At least the staff would have some kind of back up then as in people don't have a valid ticket to be in the coach. Otherwise they could end up forcing someone with an irritable baby to go and stand in a vestibule somewhere just because where you are is a normally priced but Quiet Coach. If you just paid the same as everyone else and the train is crowded why should you get some enhanced feature for free? I do however wish people would be more considerate.

I wouldn't object to paying extra if it *guaranteed* a quiet environment. The trouble is that it probably wouldn't.

Like first class, you can end up paying a lot extra, and still find the carriage filled with scum. (In the case of first class, normally thanks to cheap advance tickets).

Personally I'd like to see *all* train fares massively increased as a way of suppressing demand. You would get rid of a proportion of problem passengers straight away through them simply not being able to afford to pay the fares.

 

[GatwickDepress]

I wouldn't object to paying extra if it *guaranteed* a quiet environment. The trouble is that it probably wouldn't.

Like first class, you can end up paying a lot extra, and still find the carriage filled with scum. (In the case of first class, normally thanks to cheap advance tickets).

Personally I'd like to see *all* train fares massively increased as a way of suppressing demand. You would get rid of a proportion of problem passengers straight away through them simply not being able to afford to pay the fares.

Uh-huh.

What a load of absolute tosh.

 

[Retorus]

All the TOC are finding it unenforcable and all will most likely follow suit.Too much tech now phones going off all over,all the time let allone all the gaming and internet.

Time and people move on.

 

[LexyBoy]

I just take a can of Psilence with me if I want to concentrate on something.

 

[Llanigraham]

I wouldn't object to paying extra if it *guaranteed* a quiet environment. The trouble is that it probably wouldn't.

Like first class, you can end up paying a lot extra, and still find the carriage filled with scum. (In the case of first class, normally thanks to cheap advance tickets).

Personally I'd like to see *all* train fares massively increased as a way of suppressing demand. You would get rid of a proportion of problem passengers straight away through them simply not being able to afford to pay the fares.

What a bigoted attitude!!

 

[jon0844]

Like first class, you can end up paying a lot extra, and still find the carriage filled with scum. (In the case of first class, normally thanks to cheap advance tickets).

Personally I'd like to see *all* train fares massively increased as a way of suppressing demand. You would get rid of a proportion of problem passengers straight away through them simply not being able to afford to pay the fares.

Perhaps if you'd actually 'made it' in life, you'd be driven around in a private car and not have to suffer other members of the public at all.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Personally I'd like to see *all* train fares massively increased as a way of suppressing demand. You would get rid of a proportion of problem passengers straight away through them simply not being able to afford to pay the fares.

Isn't that called First Class?

 

[The Planner]

I wouldn't object to paying extra if it *guaranteed* a quiet environment. The trouble is that it probably wouldn't.

Like first class, you can end up paying a lot extra, and still find the carriage filled with scum. (In the case of first class, normally thanks to cheap advance tickets).

Personally I'd like to see *all* train fares massively increased as a way of suppressing demand. You would get rid of a proportion of problem passengers straight away through them simply not being able to afford to pay the fares.

Did it take long for one of your staff to type that? How dare the proles be allowed to travel....

 

[meridian2]

I wouldn't object to paying extra if it *guaranteed* a quiet environment. The trouble is that it probably wouldn't.

Like first class, you can end up paying a lot extra, and still find the carriage filled with scum. (In the case of first class, normally thanks to cheap advance tickets).

Personally I'd like to see *all* train fares massively increased as a way of suppressing demand. You would get rid of a proportion of problem passengers straight away through them simply not being able to afford to pay the fares.

And you would no longer have a service, due to one individual's qualms. You would be laughed out of your respective boardroom for suggesting something so at odds with reality.

 

[Spamcan81]

Some very strange posts in this thread. AIUI the quiet coach has never been intended to be as silent as a morgue but one where loud conversations and the playing of music etc. over open speakers is not permitted. Absolutely no problem with the gentle buzz of conversation between fellow passengers or this surfing away of their mobile devices on mute. I alway book the quiet coach and put my phone on mute. Can easily communicate by text and if a phone call is absolutely necessary then the end vestibule is just a few paces away. What annoys me are those who, quiet coach or not, think it is ok to impose their music/computer game/conversation/phone call on everyone else and at full volume.
Trains may well be public transport but that doesn't give anyone who uses them the right to behave like a complete arse.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I wouldn't object to paying extra if it *guaranteed* a quiet environment. The trouble is that it probably wouldn't.

Like first class, you can end up paying a lot extra, and still find the carriage filled with scum. (In the case of first class, normally thanks to cheap advance tickets).

Personally I'd like to see *all* train fares massively increased as a way of suppressing demand. You would get rid of a proportion of problem passengers straight away through them simply not being able to afford to pay the fares.

With an attitude like that I'm surprised you don't travel by chauffeur driven limousine or private jet. I presume ordinary folk aren't allowed anywhere near your ivory tower.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Playing music through speakers is not acceptable in *any* coach.

 

[Darandio]

I wouldn't object to paying extra if it *guaranteed* a quiet environment. The trouble is that it probably wouldn't.

Like first class, you can end up paying a lot extra, and still find the carriage filled with scum. (In the case of first class, normally thanks to cheap advance tickets).

Personally I'd like to see *all* train fares massively increased as a way of suppressing demand. You would get rid of a proportion of problem passengers straight away through them simply not being able to afford to pay the fares.

There is certainly one word to describe you, probably more, but they would all result in a ban.

You ain't worth it, no matter how big your castle may be.

 

[HilversumNS]

Like first class, you can end up paying a lot extra, and still find the carriage filled with scum. (In the case of first class, normally thanks to cheap advance tickets).

I'd like to thank Bramling for calling me scum. It's always nice to be labeled by people who know nothing about me.

At least I can console myself with the knowledge that I know where to place a full stop when using brackets.

 

[imagination]

Well I've just booked some train tickets on a virgin train service which let me select quiet coach. I hope that it actually is as nine times in ten I can't properly relax in the other coaches - not a problem if the journey is a short one but a major pain when it's for over 4.5 hours.

 

[Senex]

Some very strange posts in this thread. AIUI the quiet coach has never been intended to be as silent as a morgue but one where loud conversations and the playing of music etc. over open speakers is not permitted. Absolutely no problem with the gentle buzz of conversation between fellow passengers or this surfing away of their mobile devices on mute. I alway book the quiet coach and put my phone on mute. Can easily communicate by text and if a phone call is absolutely necessary then the end vestibule is just a few paces away. What annoys me are those who, quiet coach or not, think it is ok to impose their music/computer game/conversation/phone call on everyone else and at full volume.
Trains may well be public transport but that doesn't give anyone who uses them the right to behave like a complete arse.

I agree with you completely, but too many of our fellow-citizens seem to think that they do indeed have the right to behave like complete arses, whether it's on trains, as stag and hen parties in the streets of York, or in various other settings I'm sure we all know. The fact that levels of concern for the feelings of one's fellow-citizens have generally fallen so low is precisely what makes the need for places of refuge such as quiet coaches so great. Why should we all be expected to put up with blatant bad manners everywhere?

 

[ag51ruk]

The internal document stated June for 9 cars and September for 11 cars. Not seen anything since then to change that. Its down to Alsthom to get them removed.

I asked the Train Managers on both my trains today - the same answer, coach G remains labelled as a quiet zone until all of the 9 coach conversions are done and they are then all due to have the signs removed on the same day - for "consistency"