Great Western Livery

[MCR247]

Is that a serious question???

No, I was making a point

 

[Deepgreen]

The full final livery details haven't been applied, same as the sleeper coaches and that set of HST trailers, because they are waiting for the full GWR launch event, whenever that is in the next few weeks. It would rather spoil the impact if there were trains out there already in the full get-up.

And 166204 has been put straight back into traffic because the fleet is at full stretch due to one set at a time being away at Wolverton for the refresh/fitting of accessible toilet/repaint programme, while the 166s are also visiting Long Marston one by one for yet another attempt to fix the air con system, taking another set of out circulation every week.

Here's a video of the HST set on the way south yesterday near Lancaster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHG1dwwfgFc

I don't consider a first class stripe a "detail" but I understand your point about the fleet being stretched. I may be being naive but surely the stripes could be applied in ten minutes overnight at the depot?

I also don't really see that full livery details would detract any more from the impact of the launch than having however many sets (at least seven 166s at this rate) running around in the basic new livery. If the launch is so important then perhaps they should have waited to release any of the new liveried-vehicles until then, as was the case with the launch of NSE.

 

[sprinterguy]

The full final livery details haven't been applied, same as the sleeper coaches and that set of HST trailers, because they are waiting for the full GWR launch event, whenever that is in the next few weeks. It would rather spoil the impact if there were trains out there already in the full get-up.

Though this didn't seem to be a problem for BR or the first round of franchisees when organising fleet launches, who generally managed to keep their new image under wraps until the big day, upon which it was unveiled completed. Admittedly, following this convention means that 166204 would probably have been outshopped in FGW blue and would have had to go through a further repaint at a later date, whenever it became due: Pragmatism over style (as we are seeing here) is a virtue, I'll grant you.

 

[59CosG95]

Nice list , but u missed out poor 43063

Oh dear-I hang my head in shame! Adding it now

 

[thelongestroad]

Oh dear-I hang my head in shame! Adding it now

Nice work! Just one more thing... 158798 is the unit in the Springboard livery... looks like you just made a small typo!

 

[JaJaWa]

The interim blue livery (why did they do that with the green coming so soon after?!) at least had a very bold and good yellow stripe plus a very large '1' on the body side.

Think that was put on as a "unbranded" livery before it was decided that First had the next franchise award.

 

[fgwrich]

Yes, but it's so insignificant as to be useless. The whole point of the stripe is that it should be visible from a fair way off - that silver sliver isn't. If further livery details are still to be added, it begs the question of why isn't it all done at once before letting vehicles out into service?

For anyone who hasn't seen how insignificant and the bordering on pointless new Silver Stripe denoting First Class is, here it is on Flicker. The other problem I can see with it on the Turbo fleet is that it has been placed where the curve of the bodyline into the roof is, which will naturally reflect the light anyway making seeing the FC section even more harder. I'd like to hope that FGW isn't playing the re-inventing the FC wheel again - E.g Virgins short live abolition of the Yellow Stripe and replacing it with the unpopular Club Class branding before U-Turning, SWT & EMTs non consistent Dots.), However the new AT300 renders do show a thin silver strip again. If Even Abellio GA are using a simple but recognisable bold Yellow Stripe and Red stripe for Catering, then why can't we just keep those simple standards each time?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/86734924@N03/19406978933/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/86734...c2c-kTPNMi-kTQJ2L-kTQEu5-kTNZTv-kTPXNV-cA32xo

 

[jimm]

For anyone who hasn't seen how insignificant and the bordering on pointless new Silver Stripe denoting First Class is, here it is on Flicker. The other problem I can see with it on the Turbo fleet is that it has been placed where the curve of the bodyline into the roof is, which will naturally reflect the light anyway making seeing the FC section even more harder. I'd like to hope that FGW isn't playing the re-inventing the FC wheel again - E.g Virgins short live abolition of the Yellow Stripe and replacing it with the unpopular Club Class branding before U-Turning, SWT & EMTs non consistent Dots.), However the new AT300 renders do show a thin silver strip again. If Even Abellio GA are using a simple but recognisable bold Yellow Stripe and Red stripe for Catering, then why can't we just keep those simple standards each time?

As I keep pointing out, this is not the full complete livery, so at this stage neither you or I or anyone else knows what else it may include to denote the first class section, such as a big number 1 as used on the previously overhauled 166s painted in blue.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7487/15690642517_0bcb3670d4_b.jpg

So perhaps you might just wait a few weeks and see what actually happens before rushing to judgment, though I would agree that not using yellow seems silly but there we are. And I might add that the FGW 180s only have a very slender yellow line on their first class coaches, which isn't exactly obvious at first glance.

I don't consider a first class stripe a "detail" but I understand your point about the fleet being stretched. I may be being naive but surely the stripes could be applied in ten minutes overnight at the depot?

I also don't really see that full livery details would detract any more from the impact of the launch than having however many sets (at least seven 166s at this rate) running around in the basic new livery. If the launch is so important then perhaps they should have waited to release any of the new liveried-vehicles until then, as was the case with the launch of NSE.

Little chance of there being anything like seven green Turbos by mid-September. Maybe two or three more - the work at Wolverton takes several (three?) weeks per set and only one set at a time is being worked on. I've already explained why they can't hide 204 away until September. And say they had waited until then and the chosen set broke down on its way back to GW-land, spoiling the big show? Better safe than sorry.

 

[455driver]

I don't consider a first class stripe a "detail" but I understand your point about the fleet being stretched. I may be being naive but surely the stripes could be applied in ten minutes overnight at the depot?

No, there are far more important things to do overnight that put some stickers on the side of the trains!

Most diesel trains need fuelling, cleaning, prepping and any small repairs carrying out, then they need to be got out of the depot to make room for another train to arrive, there isn't enough siding space at most depots for the number of trains that will visit on a normal night!

But you want to use a siding with staging (probably the only in the depot) to put a poxy sticker on the side of the train, lets not get onto who is available (IE hasn't anything else to do at the time) to actually apply the sticker!

 

[Deepgreen]

As I keep pointing out, this is not the full complete livery, so at this stage neither you or I or anyone else knows what else it may include to denote the first class section, such as a big number 1 as used on the previously overhauled 166s painted in blue.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7487/15690642517_0bcb3670d4_b.jpg

So perhaps you might just wait a few weeks and see what actually happens before rushing to judgment, though I would agree that not using yellow seems silly but there we are. And I might add that the FGW 180s only have a very slender yellow line on their first class coaches, which isn't exactly obvious at first glance.



Little chance of there being anything like seven green Turbos by mid-September. Maybe two or three more - the work at Wolverton takes several (three?) weeks per set and only one set at a time is being worked on. I've already explained why they can't hide 204 away until September. And say they had waited until then and the chosen set broke down on its way back to GW-land, spoiling the big show? Better safe than sorry.

Elsewhere in this thread, it has been stated that one unit per week will be returned re-painted, which gives at least seven units by mid-September. If that's not the case, so be it.
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No, there are far more important things to do overnight that put some stickers on the side of the trains!

Most diesel trains need fuelling, cleaning, prepping and any small repairs carrying out, then they need to be got out of the depot to make room for another train to arrive, there isn't enough siding space at most depots for the number of trains that will visit on a normal night!

But you want to use a siding with staging (probably the only in the depot) to put a poxy sticker on the side of the train, lets not get onto who is available (IE hasn't anything else to do at the time) to actually apply the sticker!

Another reason for the labels, stripes, etc., to be applied at the end of the painting process, rather than sending out trains in an incomplete state if the depots are incapable of doing it with their other overnight work. If the depots don't have the facilities to be able to apply these without resorting to staging, etc., then have it done by those who do. Not long ago, it was unthinkable to send out repainted stock without proper labelling applied. I'm not talking here about spurious corporate branding, but rather about useful passenger information elements. Every TOC responds to complaints about poor passenger information provision with the same stock reply along the lines of; "we realise how important good information is to our passengers" - this is another example of it clearly not being taken seriously by FGW. I'm unaware of any other TOC's stock being put into service without functional (i.e. non-decorative) parts of the livery being applied (but I may have missed any examples).

 

[59CosG95]

Back on topic, does anyone know when set LA15 is due for re-entry into service?

 

[ClevedonYellow]

Back on topic, does anyone know when set LA15 is due for re-entry into service?

It is still at Laira (Hopefully having Vinyl's applied) There is no allocation for the foreseeable future. The only people to tell you would be FGW Control staff or Laira Depot staff. Nobody else knows.

FGW Genius would show the allocation on the day it was to return to service. Shouldn't be too long though, FGW won't want a full set out for more that 2-3 weeks!

 

[Deepgreen]

Back on topic, does anyone know when set LA15 is due for re-entry into service?

I hadn't realised that posts about FGW's new livery were not on topic in a thread entitled "Great Western Livery"! Incidentally, I travelled on 166204 again this morning, and it still remains unfinished (I hope!) nearly three weeks after entering service.

 

[jopsuk]

is there a pair of power cars being painted at Laira or elsewhere?

 

[59CosG95]

Today's Railways has stated that 166205 is repainted into GWR green, having gone up after 204.

is there a pair of power cars being painted at Laira or elsewhere?

Who can tell? Power cars take significantly less time to paint than coach rakes, so expect them to be rolled out nearer to the launch date.

 

[fgwrich]

The first repainted 150 should be due out in the next few weeks as well. As will be the first 158 soon too.

Of course the next issue FGW has will now be the what stock can we repaint / are we going to be keeping now or not, despite the original and very very ambitious cascade plans. Incidentally, FGW/GWR has another rolling stock cascade problem as I see that the 365s may now have to stay with GTR TSGN a little longer until the modifications on the GN for the 700s is complete. Not too much of a loss while the GW electrification is delayed, but it won't give them much time to turn them around into gWr refurbished units! And of course what is released from the Thames Valley effectively controls what goes on in the west.

 

[sprinterguy]

is there a pair of power cars being painted at Laira or elsewhere?

If Great Western had an eye for their heritage, it would be good to see 43185 "Great Western" chosen as one of the power cars for the launch. As well as the propriety of the name, 43185 was the Laira depot "pet" for a number of years and was also one of the power cars turned out for the launch of the original Great Western Trains franchise at the dawn of privatisation.

I note however that this power car is no longer even a Laira allocated example, and, more incongruously, neither is the other former Laira "pet", 43179 "Pride of Laira", which would be a good choice to pair with a reliveried 43185.

Alternatively, this could be a good opportunity to give 43004 a relivery and quietly sweep that ridiculous "First for the Future" title under the carpet.

 

[fgwrich]

Alternatively, this could be a good opportunity to give 43004 a relivery and quietly sweep that ridiculous "First for the Future" title under the carpet.

Already happening. 43009 appears to have had it's nameplate quite literally pulled off, leaving the clue and residue behind.

 

[irish_rail]

43009 lost its nameplates way back in August 2014, no reason for 004 for to lose them just yet...

Re a green power car, my money is on 43003, as I believe its on a major exam at Laira at present, and being named IKB it would be perhaps appropriate.

 

[83G/84D]

The first repainted 150 should be due out in the next few weeks as well. As will be the first 158 soon too.

Of course the next issue FGW has will now be the what stock can we repaint / are we going to be keeping now or not, despite the original and very very ambitious cascade plans. Incidentally, FGW/GWR has another rolling stock cascade problem as I see that the 365s may now have to stay with GTR TSGN a little longer until the modifications on the GN for the 700s is complete. Not too much of a loss while the GW electrification is delayed, but it won't give them much time to turn them around into gWr refurbished units! And of course what is released from the Thames Valley effectively controls what goes on in the west.

Given that FGW are only keeping the 150/2's I would think that one of these will receive the new look. But then again maybe not, after all there were no plans to repaint the HST's green and that changed.

 

[RobShipway]

Given that FGW are only keeping the 150/2's I would think that one of these will receive the new look. But then again maybe not, after all there were no plans to repaint the HST's green and that changed.

But I would imagine it is only those HST's that they need for the route to Plymouth and Penzance that will get repainted prior to the AT300's arriving.

 

[jimm]

Given that FGW are only keeping the 150/2's I would think that one of these will receive the new look. But then again maybe not, after all there were no plans to repaint the HST's green and that changed.

What give you the idea they weren't going to repaint HSTs when they have been running around with the revamped GWR first class interior for months?

It would be a pretty weird kind of relaunch if they weren't going to repaint what will remain the company's front-rank express rolling stock for the next two to three years. Whether all of the HSTs get green paint is another matter, as there is of course a lot of stock not long back from Kilmarnock with shiny blue paint.

Otherwise I'd expect stock that will be staying long-term in the area to get green livery, so all the 150/2s, 158s and 165/166s. Beyond that it will probably depend on the state of paintwork on the 143s, 150/1s and 153s and whether their blue coat will see them through until they move on.
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But I would imagine it is only those HST's that they need for the route to Plymouth and Penzance that will get repainted prior to the AT300's arriving.

Why just these sets? HSTs to Swansea are not going to vanish in any hurry either, due to the delays to the electrification programme.

 

[Rich McLean]

All stock will get repainted as and when they are due Majors (C6, F & G exams), regardless if they stay in the franchise post knitting or not, as vehicles would have to be repainted anyway

 

[RobShipway]

What give you the idea they weren't going to repaint HSTs when they have been running around with the revamped GWR first class interior for months?

It would be a pretty weird kind of relaunch if they weren't going to repaint what will remain the company's front-rank express rolling stock for the next two to three years. Whether all of the HSTs get green paint is another matter, as there is of course a lot of stock not long back from Kilmarnock with shiny blue paint.

Otherwise I'd expect stock that will be staying long-term in the area to get green livery, so all the 150/2s, 158s and 165/166s. Beyond that it will probably depend on the state of paintwork on the 143s, 150/1s and 153s and whether their blue coat will see them through until they move on.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Why just these sets? HSTs to Swansea are not going to vanish in any hurry either, due to the delays to the electrification programme.

The services to Swansea are likely to still have Class 800 bi - modes whether there is delays to the Electrification or not I would suspect. Since the route via the Berks and Hants and on down to Plymouth/Penzance is hillier as has been stated in the Class 800 IEP thread more diesel power is needed for this route which is where the AT300's come in with higher rated diesel engines.

Class 800 thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=100841

 

[Rapidash]

If the 143's go green, I shall be dubbing them 'snot rockets' Small, green, often unwanted and arrive with terrible high pitched noises

 

[Kite159]

I saw 166204 in the flesh yesterday sitting at Reading, looks quite smart in green compared to the blue of the other 166s.

Although I can imagine the confusion in a few years time when 166s are on the Car-Port services when passengers board a GWR 166 confusing it for a Southern as "I was told to board the green train".

 

[fgwrich]

Given that FGW are only keeping the 150/2's I would think that one of these will receive the new look. But then again maybe not, after all there were no plans to repaint the HST's green and that changed.

It will be a /2 as it's those that, for the moment, are undergoing all the DDA modifications (and the installation of that awful toilet module). I say at the moment, due to the electrification project delays will mean FGW will have to sort something out rolling stock wise for the future, or potentially end up with a 2006 situation on it's hands again - Something no doubt they are very keen to avoid! It also means that the two Blue 150/2s will also have to go for repaint again at some point.

I still can't say I'm a fan of the dull green livery on anything, let alone 166204. Something else I've noticed about those modified 166s - Has anyone else noticed, apart from the new door buttons and hustler alarms, the rather stupidly placed handrail which juts out almost in front of the Door Open button, so if your standing behind it you have to twist your hand to open it.

 

[cactustwirly]

It will be a /2 as it's those that, for the moment, are undergoing all the DDA modifications (and the installation of that awful toilet module). I say at the moment, due to the electrification project delays will mean FGW will have to sort something out rolling stock wise for the future, or potentially end up with a 2006 situation on it's hands again - Something no doubt they are very keen to avoid! It also means that the two Blue 150/2s will also have to go for repaint again at some point.

I still can't say I'm a fan of the dull green livery on anything, let alone 166204. Something else I've noticed about those modified 166s - Has anyone else noticed, apart from the new door buttons and hustler alarms, the rather stupidly placed handrail which juts out almost in front of the Door Open button, so if your standing behind it you have to twist your hand to open it.

No I haven't, I have only been on one twice, most of the time an unpainted 166 or a 165 turns up

 

[jimm]

The services to Swansea are likely to still have Class 800 bi - modes whether there is delays to the Electrification or not I would suspect. Since the route via the Berks and Hants and on down to Plymouth/Penzance is hillier as has been stated in the Class 800 IEP thread more diesel power is needed for this route which is where the AT300's come in with higher rated diesel engines.

Class 800 thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=100841

The wiring was not meant to reach Swansea until 2018 anyway, so the delay to the overall GW programme means that date is likely to slip back, though hopefully not beyond December that year when the full new GWML timetable is supposed to start.

And until the wires get to the places where the nine-car, all-electric 801s can most usefully be deployed, namely Bristol and Cardiff services, there won't be any 800s free to work Swansea services anyway. Hence why I think it is a fair bet that green-painted HSTs will still be plying their trade into South Wales well into 2018.

 

[RobShipway]

The wiring was not meant to reach Swansea until 2018 anyway, so the delay to the overall GW programme means that date is likely to slip back, though hopefully not beyond December that year when the full new GWML timetable is supposed to start.

And until the wires get to the places where the nine-car, all-electric 801s can most usefully be deployed, namely Bristol and Cardiff services, there won't be any 800s free to work Swansea services anyway. Hence why I think it is a fair bet that green-painted HSTs will still be plying their trade into South Wales well into 2018.

Hopefully, there will be enough Class 800's on board to free the HST's going to Scotland between now and 2018.

Although, forgive me being cynical I do not see the wires getting to Cardiff or Swansea until 2020, which I believe may mean that you might for a short period see the class 442's being loco hauled on the routes that the HSTs where meant to be going too in Scotland before they are scrapped. But that is possibly me just being cynical as I have said and it is possibly not going to happen.