Trains and the Rugby World Cup

[Statto]

FGW is getting slated. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-34302045

First Great Western has apologised for underestimating passenger numbers travelling to Cardiff for the city's first Rugby World Cup match.
In a tweet, the train operator acknowledged "severe overcrowding" at Paddington Station.
The company put on 8,000 extra seats for the Ireland-Canada game, which took place at the Millennium Stadium, but had to add 1,500 extra seats.
Passengers have reacted angrily with one describing it as "unforgivable".
Clive Sedgebeer ‏tweeted: "@FGW It must have come as a great surprise to you that there is something going on in Cardiff. Just not good enough and unforgivable."
Cycleoptic responded: "Only 4 years notice!"
Sue Moran tweeted: "Stop selling the anytime tickets on match days - it's the same during six nations."
man asleepImage copyright@tomwitney/Twitter
Image caption
One man went to sleep in the train's luggage compartment
Tweets showing FGW's apology and frustrations aired by traveller Clive SedgebeerImage copyrightFGW / Clive Sedgebeer / Twitter
Image caption
Apologies and frustrations: Tweets showing FGW's apology and comments aired by one traveller
In a statement First Great Western said: "We're sorry for anyone caught up on busy services ahead of today's match at the Millennium Stadium.
"Although we warned customers services were likely to be very busy and to travel early, the number of people wishing to travel is slightly higher than predicted, and passenger numbers have been less evenly spread throughout the day than we would normally expect."
It added it would be reviewing arrangements for future rugby events during the World Cup but said there was a "limit to what we can provide without impacting other customers".
National Rail had asked rail users to allow extra time to travel.
It said Paddington, Reading, Swindon and Bristol Parkway were all busier than normal.

 

[Groningen]

Any rugby today in Cardiff?

Overcrowding at Cardiff Central is causing delays of up to 40 minutes to trains to, from and through #CardiffCentral #IREVSCAN #RWC2015

 

[PHILIPE]

There could be more of this chaos as the tournament progresses.

 

[richw]

Any rugby today in Cardiff?

Overcrowding at Cardiff Central is causing delays of up to 40 minutes to trains to, from and through #CardiffCentral #IREVSCAN #RWC2015

Apparently the queueing system is chaotic and not to Cardiff's normal standards.

People travelling in from Bristol Parkway claiming even at 930am unable to board trains at Parkway.

 

[Minilad]

I have always managed to avoid working a train to Cardiff on a rugby day. Not anymore!
I will be on the 1645 from CDF tomorrow. Hopefully there will be loads of injury time or something and it won't be that busy!!

 

[Envoy]

Here is what ITV Wales have put up about the Ireland v Canada match on Saturday 19 September.

http://www.itv.com/news/wales/story...rn-apologises-to-rugby-fans-for-train-delays/

QUOTE: >"There are delays on trains out of Cardiff Central due to overcrowding.

Arriva Trains Wales and First Great Western Services are behind schedule by around 40 minutes.

It follows a day of disruption due to 'underestimated' numbers of rugby fans travelling to the city to watch Ireland play Canada at the Millennium Stadium.
TRAVEL RUGBY WORLD CUP 2015"

 

[PHILIPE]

Apparently the queueing system is chaotic and not to Cardiff's normal standards.

People travelling in from Bristol Parkway claiming even at 930am unable to board trains at Parkway.

I don't think it's the tried and tested queuing system that's to blame so much but the volume of passengers, estimated 43,000. This is a different scenario from the one when Wales are playing at home as there are so many people from far flung places.
Also a Paddington to Cheltenham service was terminated at Swindon this morning in order to form an additional to Cardiff. Some trains this evening are running up to an hour late due to congestion as a result of what may be described as an unprecedented situation.

 

[berneyarms]

You would think at this stage that it is perfectly obvious that there are massive numbers of Irish people living in London - the numbers have just shot up in recent years as many people have emigrated due to the recession at home.

And Irish people are passionate supporters of their national teams.

Hopefully they will rectify the situation for the Ireland v France game in Cardiff in three weeks time on Sunday October 11th.

 

[PHILIPE]

ATW Twitter now saying delays could now be up to an hour until 23 00. All trains are being loaded up until full and standing in order to clear the numbers.

 

[Groningen]

Travel chaos continues as thousands of fans left queueing in Cardiff following Rugby World Cup game

Rugby fans have taken to Twitter to express their anger as they wait for a train to leave Cardiff following the game at the Millennium Stadium.

The travel chaos is continuing following today's Rugby World Cup game as thousands of fans have been left queueing as they wait to get a train out of Cardiff. Rugby fans have taken to Twitter to express their anger at the long waiting times as they wait for a train to leave the city. One passenger, Marianne Newell wrote on Twitter: "Been stood at Cardiff Central for over an hour moving only about 50ft. Another, Rob Letters wrote: "@cardiffcentral Umm where are the trains to Bristol? Here 90 mins after final whistle and still not moved. Know its busy but this is a joke." Liam O'Malley commented: "Public transport away from Cardiff after #RWC2015 is a disgrace, @arrivatw should be ashamed, why no extra trains?

Arriva Trains Wales commented on its Twitter page just after 6pm: "We've had 10k people back through Cardiff Central so far this evening and we're working to get you all home ASAP" They had earlier tweeted: "A busy day with 43k people coming into Cardiff by train but what comes in must go out...queue system in place at Central after the game." An Arriva Trains Wales spokesperson said: "Due to the Rugby World Cup game at the Millennium Stadium, trains into Cardiff have been really busy today , with over 43,000 passengers passing through our Cardiff stations before the 14:30 kick off. "As always with large events we planned for all our trains to be out working and Arriva Trains Wales has provided where possible extra services and capacity on all routes, adding in total over 10,000 extra seats."

First Great Western tweeted: "Sorry rugby trains busy today, extra services running tonight. Queues likely, if you can, please stagger your return journeys" Prior to the game, fans had also taken to Twitter to complain about a shortage of train carriages going into Cardiff leaving some fans fearing they were going to miss the game between Ireland and Canada at the Millennium Stadium. A First Great Western spokesman apologised to passengers prior to the game and said an additional 8,000 seats into Cardiff for the game were already being provided, which was in line with estimates of the number of customers expected to travel.

He said: “Although we warned customers services were likely to be very busy and to travel early, the number of people wishing to travel is slightly higher than predicted and passenger numbers have been less evenly spread throughout the day than we would normally expect. “We have now engaged our contingency arrangements which will provide at least 1,500 additional seats and will be monitoring the situation very closely. “We will be reviewing arrangements for future rugby events during the World Cup, however there will be a limit to what we can provide without impacting other customers. “We will be speaking to organisers to see how we can contribute further to the overall mix of transport options for fans in later matches.” Wales Online tried to contact First Great Western for an additional comment following the game but no contact could be made.

Source: Walesonline (September 19, 2015 19.09)

 

[alb1]

It really doesn't help that trains are being queued up outside Cardiff.

At one point there was an hour and 40 minutes between trains to Swansea (and beyond) and the delayed train was sat just outside Cardiff the whole time.

A friend is trying to get back to Cardiff having visited family in Newport for the day and despite travelling in the opposite direction to the masses has been stuck on a train for an hour, in throwing distance of Cardiff Central.

 

[PHILIPE]

It really doesn't help that trains are being queued up outside Cardiff.

At one point there was an hour and 40 minutes between trains to Swansea (and beyond) and the delayed train was sat just outside Cardiff the whole time.

A friend is trying to get back to Cardiff having visited family in Newport for the day and despite travelling in the opposite direction to the masses has been stuck on a train for an hour, in throwing distance of Cardiff Central.

They are queued up due to their Platforms being occupied as it obviously takes
extra time to load the trains up. This sort of situation can then lead to knock on delays which can increase as time goes on. Train crews could also be displaced due to late running.
Even if the numbers travelling had been anticipated at the numbers they actually were it would have been difficult to fit in any more paths had they been sourced.
As I said earlier this was an unprecedented situation not previously experienced.

 

[berneyarms]

Well I would predict even greater numbers in three weeks time on Sunday 11 October for the Ireland -v- France game.

The difference from normal with the RWC is that both teams have huge numbers travelling from afar rather than large numbers based locally.

 

[BestWestern]

Unfortunately, as is nearly always the case whoever the TOC, FGW simply don't have the stock to cater for tens of thousands of extra travellers all heading to the same place - it is terribly easy to for the media to express its outrage that everybody wasn't able to saunter into their local station and board a lightly loaded train and be whisked off to Cardiff, but in the real world it isn't ever going to happen. Reasonable efforts were made to run additional trains, but at the not inconsiderable expense of cancelling other services. Perhaps FGW should have operated an emergency timetable today serving Cardiff and cancelling everything else?

I do wish that in these situations TOCs would help themselves by being blunt about why there is a lack of capacity, rather than assuming the blame by apologising profusely!

 

[PHILIPE]

ATW and FGW Twitters receiving tweet after tweet from people queueing about the situation. I would like to see if these people could organise it better themselves even though I sympathise with them.

 

[VisualAcid]

I picked a terrible day to go watch Swansea play from Bristol it seems...

The stadium is just too big for the stadium when people aren't just coming from fairly close by. Bet there is a few Everton fans struggling to get home after we were stuck outside Canton for an hour.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

ATW and FGW Twitters receiving tweet after tweet from people queueing about the situation. I would like to see if these people could organise it better themselves even though I sympathise with them.

Yeah me too, the screens were struggling at Cardiff as well (TURN OFF THE WELSH NO ONE CARES). This game should have been in London with only Wales playing in Cardiff.

 

[ooo]

It was much busier than I expected at Bristol Temple Meads today. Platform 7 was completely filled with Ireland fans heading for Cardiff.

 

[PHILIPE]

Top level conferences (or inquests) Monday morning. Will any lessons have been learnt in respect of the remainder of the tournament. I think FGW did a good job of providing additional trains, more than any other TOC might have done, but they were still insufficient.

 

[CallySleeper]

Top level conferences (or inquests) Monday morning. Will any lessons have been learnt in respect of the remainder of the tournament.

I find this incredibly outrageous. Drag their arses in tomorrow morning, why delay it 24hrs. Maybe leave them waiting in a cattle pen outside for an hour first.

 

[Groningen]

First Great Western > Really sorry again - there aren't many alternate options from Cardiff and information availability has been limited.

CrossCountry trains > The 20:00 Cardiff Central to Nottingham service will now terminate at Birmingham N St due to overcrowding.

And the Rugby World Cup has just started?! How many games are still played in Cardiff?

 

[CallySleeper]

Another thing - it's a kick in the proverbials to be told to plan ahead (as I did 2 months ago) by an organisation which clearly didn't.

 

[Groningen]

Do you know what the first train from Birmingham to Nottingham is? Yes, it is that one at 11.49. So you have to wait for more than 12 hours in Birmingham. Is Birmingham such a nice town. Oh; it that library town!

 

[Parallel]

Bristol Temple Meads was chaotic this evening - FGW have a limited number of units but some services from Cardiff were 3 carriages. I saw one of the hybrids (might have been 150926?) on a Cardiff - Taunton service that was running about 50 minutes late, and it was completely wedged. To be expected but really not good.

Many of the Salisbury services were severely late (i.e. over an hour) and some terminated early at Westbury. One service terminated at Westbury over 2 hours late. The local services around Bristol were disrupted too - due to crew displacement and losing paths. A morning Severn Beach train was cancelled, I suspect because FGW pinched the unit for Cardiff. The services to/from Gloucester/Great Malvern and Weymouth were also disrupted due to signalling problems at Castle Cary, as were HST services due to signalling problems at Slough.

Coming back from Birmingham, I had to change at Temple Meads - The Salisbury train was 70 minutes late leaving Bristol according to RTT. Passengers for stations to Westbury were told to wait for the 19:49 to Frome, which itself was running approximately 25 minutes late (due to signalling problems on a previous service from Weymouth). Due to the crew for the HST not being available, this train had all the passengers wanting Bath, as well as those who were meant to be on the earlier Salisbury service, as well as its own load. The SWT 158 hire in turned up and everyone just about managed to squeeze on, but it was tight!

I can't even imagine what Cardiff must've been like. When travelling to Birmingham earlier, we stopped at Cheltenham Spa. I thought "crikey, there are a lot of other passengers on the other platform for the Maesteg service, ATW must've tried to strengthen it!"... As we left, a two-car 150 pulled in...

When you see situations like this happen, it does seem like madness that Pacers are planned to be withdrawn in the next few years...

 

[howittpie]

My dad got caught up in the disruption this evening trying to travel from Birmingham to Nottingham his thoughts were a disgrace they have only had 4 years to put the plans in place.

 

[berneyarms]

First Great Western > And the Rugby World Cup has just started?! How many games are still played in Cardiff?

Today (14:30) - Wales -v- Uruguay
Wednesday 23 Sept (16:45) - Australia -v- Fiji
Thursday 1 Oct (16:45) - Wales -v- Fiji
Friday 2 Oct (20:00) - New Zealand -v- Georgia
Sunday 11 Oct (16:45) - France -v- Ireland
Saturday 17 Oct (20:00) - Quarter Final 1
Sunday 18 Oct (13:00) - Quarter Final 2

Apart from the Quarter Finals, the one that really stands out is the France -v- Ireland game as probably having the greater number of travelling fans.

 

[pompeyfan]

I know it's a fairytale solution, and probably not workable, but don't Salisbury have loads of units sat around over the weekend? I presume all 158 crew have had the conversion chat/sheet to work 159s.... Couldn't (in future, hypothetically) 159s be bolted onto 158s at Salisbury and sent towards Bristol to provide a bit of extra capacity, it wouldn't use any extra paths to get them there. (I know it's dependant on maintenance as well)

 

[Envoy]

Normally, on weekdays, we have 2 trains an hour between London & Cardiff but only 1 train an hour on weekends. I take it that all these HST's were out working on Saturday providing at least 2 trains an hour from PAD > CDF in the morning & the same back after the match?

I happened to see a late morning Cross Country services arriving in Cardiff. One was the regular Turbostar (170) from Nottingham - WITH THE REGULAR NUMBER OF COACHES = 3. (At least it was not a 2 car unit).

Anyway, Cross Country also switched 2 of their Manchester > Bristol services to run via Gloucester to Cardiff instead. I saw one of these arriving in Cardiff at 11.36am - but it was only a 4 coach Voyager. Was that the best they could do?

Perhaps the answer to having to deal with major sporting events will be to retain the HST fleet at some sort of central location and keep crews up to speed on their operation. Then bring them out to cope with these surges in demand. After all, how many spare Hitachi Super Express trains are going to be built? Probably just 1 or 2 if that?

So, we had rail disruption across a vast swathe of south-west Britain and way up towards Nottingham & east to London. Anyway, the trouble now is that having had this terrible experience, that many people will try & drive to Cardiff in future. Take note that yesterday, traffic jams also built up between the Severn bridges & Newport & after the game, it was a crawl from Cardiff to Newport - all caused by the choke point at the Newport tunnels. The Welsh (Labour) Government are proposing building a new M4 south of Newport to overcome this problem. (The Conservatives had it all planned out in the 1990's but Labour came to power & said it was "not needed"). I note that no consultations are taking place on the Bristol side of the estuary about this proposal yet they have exhibitions of the scheme as far west as Carmarthen. Presumably the WG don't think the English should have any say regarding this project? It now looks like both Labour & The Conservatives are in favour of building this new motorway but that Plaid Cymru, the Greens & the Lib-Dems are against. The Welsh Government elections are next May - so the votes of the Welsh people could affect how people from England get to Cardiff by road.

For those interested, here is the link regarding the proposed south of Newport M4:> http://gov.wales/topics/transport/roads/schemes/m4-road/m4/?lang=en

 

[StarCrossing]

My experience was a bit up and down yesterday, but didn't really impact my enjoyment of the day out in Cardiff.

There were huge queues for tickets at Temple Meads in the morning, but I got a ticket just in time to make the 10:10 HST to Cardiff. However, when I got to the platform the platform staff told me not to board as it was already full. However, there was a 10:21, which I think was a 158+153 and I easily got a standing spot on that. My friend on the 10:10 reported that there were issues at Filton as apparently the train manager got stuck in a part of the train that wasn't on the platform. Anyway, all my group got to Cardiff in good time.

We went back to Cardiff Central at about 19:30. You had to queue to get into the proper barriered queue for Bristol, London and Newport, but staff told us to just go to the other side and get in any other queue. I've never been told this before! We chose the Gloucester queue as it was the shortest. We waited for less than 15 minutes before being allowed into the station. It was very confusing in the station as the vast majority of information boards were just saying "Welcome to Cardiff Central" or "Phone NRE for information". Different staff were saying different things, but after a short while a HST turned up that all staff said was going to London via Bristol Parkway, so we jumped on and off we went. Back at Parkway, there were no trains to Temple Meads for 30 minutes, so there were very slow-moving queues for taxis and the 73 bus into the city centre, but we made it eventually.

Overall, not a bad experience, but worse than a Six Nations or Autumn Test match day. I think it was just very difficult for the rail companies to predict where all the Ireland fans were coming from for a one-off match, whereas a Six Nations match day is more predictable. The train experience certainly didn't have a big impact on what was a great day out.

 

[richw]

My dad got caught up in the disruption this evening trying to travel from Birmingham to Nottingham his thoughts were a disgrace they have only had 4 years to put the plans in place.

They've had more than 4 years since the World Cup was awarded, however although a strong assumption that Cardiff would have games, the stadiums were only confirmed approx 2 years ago. Still not good enough the chaos that occured.


My uncle and auntie were at Cardiff, took them 2.5 hours to get on a train at Cardiff after the match. They made the last bus at their destination station (they live about 10 miles from there) by 3 minutes.

 

[Groningen]

Imagine that they played in Swansea and that Swansea City had a homegame during a rugbygame during the World Cup. Yesterday Swansea City had a homegame against Everton and all those Everton supporters had to go back to Liverpool.

So on Saturday 17 October there is a Quarter Final at Cardiff. There is also a footballgame in Swansea that same day against Stoke City. So in 4 weeks time you have the same problem(s).