Puppy on tracks at Warminster station 11/12/2015

[Swanny200]

Yesterday evening, there was a puppy on the tracks at Warminster station, basically the people on the platform held their hands out to stop an oncoming train which came 20m away from the obstruction while a man lain across the platform edge and reached down to retrieve the puppy.

Cue everyone in town calling him a hero on the local facebook site for the town. Until a railwayman comes on and basically tells all and sundry that what he did was wrong, the train should have been stopped and a PTS holder should have got permission to go onto the live rail to retrieve the puppy.

Well then he got slated... My wife explained when some of the abuse was aimed at the live rail comment that what he meant was a live rail line as in trains running on it rather than 3rd rail.

The abuse continued even when he stated that he was a railwayman of many years who is a PTS holder and knows how dangerous the railway is, what I cannot get is the stupidity of the non railway community to slag off a serving railwayman for pointing out that the situation could have been a lot worse.

What if the guy had slid off the edge of the platform and seriously hurt himself?

What if it hadn't been a passenger train but a Westbury freight train, it wouldn't have had time to stop 20m from the puppy.

Why does everyone seem to think that trains are like cars and can stop on a sixpence?

And why hasn't the puppy's owner been found and charged?

I am not a railwayman but even I wouldn't have been stupid enough to do what he did.

 

[najaB]

Yesterday evening, there was a puppy on the tracks at Warminster station, basically the people on the platform held their hands out to stop an oncoming train which came 20m away from the obstruction while a man lain across the platform edge and reached down to retrieve the puppy.

Was the train stationary when he reached down? Your post reads like it was.

I'm trying to figure out what level of stupid this was.

 

[Swanny200]

Was the train stationary when he reached down? Your post reads like it was.

I'm trying to figure out what level of stupid this was.

The guy who reached down was a member of the public, yes the train had stopped but even reaching down onto the track is downright dangerous is it not especially when there would be a member of staff around at that time who could have gone onto the tracks safely and with the right permits.

 

[najaB]

The guy who reached down was a member of the public, yes the train had stopped but even reaching down onto the track is downright dangerous is it not especially when there would be a member of staff around at that time who could have gone onto the tracks safely and with the right permits.

Stupid, but not the most stupid thing that's ever happened at a station.

 

[Phil.]

The guy who reached down was a member of the public, yes the train had stopped but even reaching down onto the track is downright dangerous is it not especially when there would be a member of staff around at that time who could have gone onto the tracks safely and with the right permits.

I'm reading the first garbled sentence, "Yesterday evening, there was a puppy on the tracks at Warminster station, basically the people on the platform held their hands out to stop an oncoming train which came 20m away from the obstruction while a man lain across the platform edge and reached down to retrieve the puppy".

So I think that you're trying to say that a puppy was on the track and the people on the platform attracted the attention of the driver of an approaching train whereupon the train stopped twenty metres from the pup. A man then lay on the platform, reached down and retrieved the pup.

Stationary train. Driver of stationary train can see what's going on. Man on platform reached down and retrieved pup.
Hardly life threatening, he was in less danger than crossing a road.

 

[carriageline]

Even as a member of rail staff, that isn't that bad, and I would say on the whole dealt with quite well by the public who are normally thick as 2 planks when it comes to railways and stations.

They could have done a lot worse!

 

[PaxVobiscum]

... facebook...

'Nuff said.

Course it could indeed have been worse ...twitter.

 

[bramling]

The guy who reached down was a member of the public, yes the train had stopped but even reaching down onto the track is downright dangerous is it not especially when there would be a member of staff around at that time who could have gone onto the tracks safely and with the right permits.

For a start, there's no live rail at Warminster.

As to whether the situation was safe, it depends on what arrangements were made with staff. If the person had spoken to the train driver after the train stopped, and ensured the train was secured against further movement, and with the signaller being aware, and an assurance that the other line wouldn't be encroached, then I don't see a major problem.

 

[Diplodicus]

The description makes the railwayman sound like a "jobsworth". Arguing safety over a puppy after the event was a fools errand. He would have been wiser to keep his counsel.

 

[Retorus]

The description makes the railwayman sound like a "jobsworth". Arguing safety over a puppy after the event was a fools errand. He would have been wiser to keep his counsel.

That's how I see it too, absolutely pointless.

 

[bengley]

No live rail at Warminster, train acting as protection.

No problem!

 

[cjmillsnun]

The only issue is that the other line was still open to passing trains. Had the puppy wandered over and someone got down from the platform and followed the puppy into either the six foot or the 4 foot on the other line, it could've got nasty.

All in all though, on this occasion no harm was done.

 

[ComUtoR]

The only issue is that the other line was still open to passing trains.

Its not the only issue. Those that work on the railway are aware of all the issues its not just about a direct and immediate danger.

Had the puppy wandered over and someone got down from the platform and followed the puppy into either the six foot or the 4 foot on the other line, it could've got nasty.

Very much so. Many thanks for the more informed posting. To everybody else who believe this is a sensible course of action then feel free to goggle the incidents where someone has gone down and acted to save someone or pick up someone's bag then ended up dead. I find it very difficult to continually read about people dying on our railways and when its because someone has gone to save another or save a bag or other inanimate object it kills me a little more.

All in all though, on this occasion no harm was done.

The damage is that people will consistently believe that they can take this course of action. It spreads the belief that it is safe. I assure you it is not.

Calling people jobsworths is unacceptable and outright offensive and especially when they are acting in the best interest of the passenger by doing their job correctly. Those who act on your behalf to ensure the railways is as safe as it can be should be applauded.

 

[455driver]

The only issue is that the other line was still open to passing trains. Had the puppy wandered over and someone got down from the platform and followed the puppy into either the six foot or the 4 foot on the other line, it could've got nasty.

All in all though, on this occasion no harm was done.

But what about next time, now that the papers have made it sound as if it is a safe thing to do?

But then I am sure it will be the nasty railways fault! :roll:

 

[nuneatonmark]

Did the dog have a rover ticket?

 

[PaxVobiscum]

No, Off Peke Return

See what you started - you'll have the Pun Police descending upon us for trivialising this serious discussion.

 

[455driver]

And here we go again, yawn! :roll:

 

[Matt Taylor]

Shades of the 'Ian Faletto' incident on SWT where the locals were up in arms and insisted the railwayman had been a hero, nevertheless he was suspended and no longer works on the railway after being advised by his counsel not to contest his employment tribunal.

 

[Phil.]

Shades of the 'Ian Faletto' incident on SWT where the locals were up in arms and insisted the railwayman had been a hero, nevertheless he was suspended and no longer works on the railway after being advised by his counsel not to contest his employment tribunal.

No shades of that lunatic/idiot at all. His case was very different.
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Its not the only issue. Those that work on the railway are aware of all the issues its not just about a direct and immediate danger.



Very much so. Many thanks for the more informed posting. To everybody else who believe this is a sensible course of action then feel free to goggle the incidents where someone has gone down and acted to save someone or pick up someone's bag then ended up dead. I find it very difficult to continually read about people dying on our railways and when its because someone has gone to save another or save a bag or other inanimate object it kills me a little more.



The damage is that people will consistently believe that they can take this course of action. It spreads the belief that it is safe. I assure you it is not.

Calling people jobsworths is unacceptable and outright offensive and especially when they are acting in the best interest of the passenger by doing their job correctly. Those who act on your behalf to ensure the railways is as safe as it can be should be applauded.

You haven't really read the post have you. No-one was in any danger. Be careful of jerking that knee, you might damage it.
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But what about next time, now that the papers have made it sound as if it is a safe thing to do?

But then I am sure it will be the nasty railways fault! :roll:

No-one's made it sound as if it's a safe thing to do. Someone however has used that rare commodity common sense - the sort of thing that five minute managers are stripped of before telling everyone around them that anything not written in tablets of stone is unsafe - and not allowed a minor occourence to escalate into a major incident.
Train at a stand, driver aware, what's your problem? We're not talking about someone wandering off to retrieve a hat on the ECML.

 

[AngusH]

The Facebook outcome was probably inevitable, the narrative choice is between

1) "a cute pet dog was saved by a brave man!"

2) "a man, in a misguided attempt to save an escaped animal broke railway regulations and an accident could easily have occurred if circumstances had been different".


The concrete choice (1) is going to win in most people's heads, even if (2) has validity. It is what did happen, the other choice is something that might have happened, but didn't, so first people have to imagine that their current point of view is wrong and then imagine what that might mean.

You can't normally win a emotional public argument on this type of thing.

 

[AngusH]

To some people, common sense might suggest that a small defenceless animal in the way of an oncoming train should be rescued, even if that puts a man's life at risk.

Common sense cannot be relied upon.

 

[455driver]

You haven't really read the post have you. No-one was in any danger. Be careful of jerking that knee, you might damage it.


Train at a stand, driver aware, what's your problem? We're not talking about someone wandering off to retrieve a hat on the ECML.

What about the other line? :roll:

 

[AngusH]

Perhaps I should have put it as "Other people's common sense cannot be relied upon"

 

[cjmillsnun]

Oh come on the train had stopped and a passenger lent over the edge to retrieve the puppy from a non electrified line.

It's not about an electrified or non electrified line that had a train stopped. There was another running line adjacent that was open to trains. There is also a fair old drop down from the platform, which had he fallen off, he would've gone head first into concrete or wooden sleepers and steel rail plus lumps of granite (ballast). That tends to hurt.

The correct course of action would be for the driver, once stopped by the passengers (nothing wrong with that part) to be the one who passed the dog up to the platform, after following procedures in the rule book.

 

[bramling]

It's not about an electrified or non electrified line that had a train stopped. There was another running line adjacent that was open to trains. There is also a fair old drop down from the platform, which had he fallen off, he would've gone head first into concrete or wooden sleepers and steel rail plus lumps of granite (ballast). That tends to hurt.

The correct course of action would be for the driver, once stopped by the passengers (nothing wrong with that part) to be the one who passed the dog up to the platform, after following procedures in the rule book.

The trouble with that is that many railwaymen will be reluctant to handle a dog, especially if it's agitated.

*Subject to the appropriate safety measures being put into place*, I have no issue with a passenger being escorted onto the track to retrieve their dog. Indeed, I've arranged for such to happen myself.

As I posted before, the danger in the situation depends on what measures are implemented by the railway staff on site. I would not expect a passenger to do it on their own initiative.

In this case, the passenger did not physically access the track, so I'd expect the safety considerations considered to be:
(1) Ensuring the train on the immediate line is secured.
(2) Ensuring there's no danger from a live rail.
(3) Ensuring danger from an adjacent line is considered and, if necessary, mitigated. This might take the form of the signaller being contacted to arrange a temporary block.
Whether any of the above were done/considered in the incident in question is, of course, another matter.

 

[Master29]

Did the dog have a rover ticket?

Yes, he was returning to Barking.

 

[theironroad]

No shades of that lunatic/idiot at all. His case was very different.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


You haven't really read the post have you. No-one was in any danger. Be careful of jerking that knee, you might damage it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


No-one's made it sound as if it's a safe thing to do. Someone however has used that rare commodity common sense - the sort of thing that five minute managers are stripped of before telling everyone around them that anything not written in tablets of stone is unsafe - and not allowed a minor occourence to escalate into a major incident.
Train at a stand, driver aware, what's your problem? We're not talking about someone wandering off to retrieve a hat on the ECML.

The final faletto incident was blown way out of proportion both by the media and certain railway managers who have zero clue about the operational railway. Unfortunately he had some history and they saw a way of getting rid of someone who had given years of his own time in unpaid overtime to the railway.

In his final incident there was zero harm to anyone except the litter he was picking up.

 

[Phil.]

To some people, common sense might suggest that a small defenceless animal in the way of an oncoming train should be rescued, even if that puts a man's life at risk.

Common sense cannot be relied upon.

I'll try again. At Warminster no-one's life was in any sort of danger whatsoever. No-one wandered on to a railway where a train was running. The train that was approaching was stood standing stationary with the driver aware of the situation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What about the other line? :roll:

What about the other line? The puppy was on the line that the stationary train was on. It's natural reaction would be to head to-wards where the people were.

 

[al78]

To some people, common sense might suggest that a small defenceless animal in the way of an oncoming train should be rescued, even if that puts a man's life at risk.

Common sense cannot be relied upon.

It sounds like the train had stopped and the driver had been made aware of the situation so in that circumstance the man decided he could rescue the dog without ill effects. The reaction by the public sounds like an emotive response rather than an analytical, logical assessment. It is an unfortunate fact of life that when it comes to people, emotion trumps logic almost every time, and is one way stupid decisions can be made.

 

[bb21]

I think that it is understandable to an untrained member of public, seeing that a train has stopped and nothing coming the other way equals no danger in their eyes. It is probably a reflex reaction anyway seeing that a puppy was at danger to try and save it without giving much thought to other possible dangers. It is not the best course of action, but understandable imo given the circumstances. I don't think it should be condoned, as there are other safer approaches.

The abuse on farcebook was unfortunately an all too common sight. The guy was absolutely right to point out the other potential dangers which can very easily be overlooked when in a rush of blood we try to do what we "think" is the right thing. People have the tendency to gang up on anyone not fitting in with their own ideas and there is very little effective moderation which is part of the reason why I rarely post on anything other than my friends' or my own pages. It is not always about the fact that nothing bad happened this time, but about educating the general public and preventing "copycat" cases where someone may end up being seriously hurt because a train suddenly appeared on the other line at 100mph.

What about the other line? The puppy was on the line that the stationary train was on. It's natural reaction would be to head to-wards where the people were.

But you cannot guarantee that every time. Some puppies may be scared by all the attention received or simply become dazed.