ATW Drivers Strike

[455driver]

Anyone know the answer to this?

Yes but you wouldn't listen as you have already made your mind up , I mean if drivers being forced to work 3 hours overtime at the drop of the Companies hat is an improvement then I am at a loss to understand what you would consider an erosion of conditions!

 

[Wales_Commuter]

Yes but you wouldn't listen as you have already made your mind up , I mean if drivers being forced to work 3 hours overtime at the drop of the Companies hat is an improvement then I am at a loss to understand what you would consider an erosion of conditions!

OK so what's the answer? How can you tell us about the change being 'railroaded through' if non of us are told what the current conditions are that are being changed?

 

[A-driver]

OK so what's the answer? How can you tell us about the change being 'railroaded through' if non of us are told what the current conditions are that are being changed?

It's not down to the public to decide if the contract changes are fair or not-it's nothing to do with them. It's down to the staff to decide-as they have here. It's the staff who will be affected by the contract changes, not the passengers who won't notice any difference whatsoever. If the staff felt the changes were not detrimental to them then they wouldn't vote to loose multiple days pay over striking would they...

 

[Wales_Commuter]

It's not down to the public to decide if the contract changes are fair or not-it's nothing to do with them. It's down to the staff to decide-as they have here. It's the staff who will be affected by the contract changes, not the passengers who won't notice any difference whatsoever. If the staff felt the changes were not detrimental to them then they wouldn't vote to loose multiple days pay over striking would they...

That's fine but all I wanted to know was what are the current conditions compared to the proposed changes. If it's changed a lot for the worse then I could completely understand not accepting this and would think the strike is justified.

However the union telling the public that there a serious changes without saying what the conditions are to begin with doesn't seem to add up. Without this there's no context.

 

[A-driver]

That's fine but all I wanted to know was what are the current conditions compared to the proposed changes. If it's changed a lot for the worse then I could completely understand not accepting this and would think the strike is justified.



However the union telling the public that there a serious changes without saying what the conditions are to begin with doesn't seem to add up. Without this there's no context.

As I say, it's up to the drivers to decide weather the changes are acceptable or not, not the public and not even the union who need to do what the membership ask them to do regarding strikes. It's pretty clear that the changes are not acceptable and fairly major as the staff are taking strike action, something no employee ever actually wants to do.

 

[Wales_Commuter]

As I say, it's up to the drivers to decide weather the changes are acceptable or not, not the public and not even the union who need to do what the membership ask them to do regarding strikes. It's pretty clear that the changes are not acceptable and fairly major as the staff are taking strike action, something no employee ever actually wants to do.

You may be right. Hopefully someone can enlighten us as to what it's changed from so we can really understand. I do think it's important for the public to know as the negative effects the strike have on us is huge. At least if we understood then there may be more sympathy...

 

[FordFocus]

OK so what's the answer? How can you tell us about the change being 'railroaded through' if non of us are told what the current conditions are that are being changed?

Read the thread.

An agreement was reached between ASLEF and ATW, the deal was about to finalised when the HR department decided to slip in a clause about 'Special Working' been able to force overtime on drivers. It's been explained on the negative effects of this pages ago.

 

[Wales_Commuter]

Read the thread.

An agreement was reached between ASLEF and ATW, the deal was about to finalised when the HR department decided to slip in a clause about 'Special Working' been able to force overtime on drivers. It's been explained on the negative effects of this pages ago.

So at the moment overtime can't be Enforced?

 

[455driver]

So at the moment overtime can't be Enforced?

Some overtime is required (I wont use the word forced) during disruption or special events* and is always accepted by the staff, but what ATW are doing, actually read post 268 as I would just be repeating it!

* the real reason to have STP diagrams.

 

[Wales_Commuter]

Some overtime is required (I wont use the word forced) during disruption or special events* and is always accepted by the staff, but what ATW are doing, actually read post 268 as I would just be repeating it!

* the real reason to have STP diagrams.

OK thanks that does answer my question actually. Just wanted to clarify that there is no actual change proposed in this area as you're already working with these conditions. So it's more about improving current conditions rather than anger over the company changing them to make them worse. That's fair enough, I think this needs to be clarified in the media though as the statement 'railroading through changes' doesn't really reflect this.

 

[455driver]

OK thanks that does answer my question actually. Just wanted to clarify that there is no actual change proposed in this area as you're already working with these conditions. So it's more about improving current conditions rather than anger over the company changing them to make them worse. That's fair enough, I think this needs to be clarified in the media though as the statement 'railroading through changes' doesn't really reflect this.

No :roll:, its more about the company sticking to the reasons for having STP diagrams rather than (as they are doing now) abusing the STP diagrams to make up for a shortage of staff, a shortage entirely of their own making.

As I said it doesn't matter what is posted, your mind is already made up (that its the drivers/unions fault) and closed to the correct information!

 

[Delta558]

. . . already working with these conditions. So it's more about improving current conditions rather than anger over the company changing them to make them worse.

No, the original aim was to reduce current fatigue levels and therefore increase passenger and staff safety. Then you have changes made after agreement has been reached which creates the anger you refer to.

 

[TDK]

No, the original aim was to reduce current fatigue levels and therefore increase passenger and staff safety. Then you have changes made after agreement has been reached which creates the anger you refer to.

At last, someone who knows what they are on about, well done Delta

 

[kieron]

I admit I don't know what the actual details of this are. I'm just going by what I heard from the unions and the company when they debated on the radio.

Do you recall which station this was, and when it was? I'm wondering because there may be a way for other people to listen to the discussion now.

 

[Wales_Commuter]

Do you recall which station this was, and when it was? I'm wondering because there may be a way for other people to listen to the discussion now.

Yeah it was BBC radio wales on the day of the strike. The first interviews started around 7am and then there were more around 5pm

 

[airwolf21]

I do wonder about the legality of committed Sunday's in general anyway. Sunday is not part of the working week yet we are forced to work a set number. Yet some drivers/guards don't have to work any Sunday's due to a years old agreement. I have heard of several staff in Bristol who aren't turning up for their Sunday's and no disciplinary action has taken place

 

[PHILIPE]

I do wonder about the legality of committed Sunday's in general anyway. Sunday is not part of the working week yet we are forced to work a set number. Yet some drivers/guards don't have to work any Sunday's due to a years old agreement. I have heard of several staff in Bristol who aren't turning up for their Sunday's and no disciplinary action has taken place

Bristol would be GWR so different conditions would apply to ATW.

 

[455driver]

Bristol would be GWR so different conditions would apply to ATW.

At GWR Bristol West (as at all West depots) have committed Sundays, if you make yourself unavailable and Rosters cant cover it with another driver then you are 'forced' to work it. Of course as it isn't part of the working week then it has no legal standing so if the driver decided to have the Sunday off there isn't much the company could do about it.

 

[airwolf21]

At GWR Bristol West (as at all West depots) have committed Sundays, if you make yourself unavailable and Rosters cant cover it with another driver then you are 'forced' to work it. Of course as it isn't part of the working week then it has no legal standing so if the driver decided to have the Sunday off there isn't much the company could do about it.

I agree but I'd like the unions to do some proper legal research and get a cast iron opinion on it. Would be interesting...

 

[Carlisle]

I agree but I'd like the unions to do some proper legal research and get a cast iron opinion on it. Would be interesting...

I'm unsure if things are quite different legally now,but certainly back in BR times management always came back with the reply that it was explained how Sunday's were rostered before you chose to accept the job and your contract states that some Sunday working will be required

 

[A-driver]

I agree but I'd like the unions to do some proper legal research and get a cast iron opinion on it. Would be interesting...

Why? Not in the unions interest really. Commited Sundays are an agreement between management and staff.

Technically if a driver said they were not coming in one Sunday there wouldn't be much the company could do in legal terms-overtime is just that and isn't legally binding. Otherwise it's contracted hours.

If a company were able to discipline a driver for not coming in on a Sunday then the driver would equally be able to claim pay for a rostered Sunday if booked off sick.

As I say, it's an agreement, not contractual.

 

[airwolf21]

Why? Not in the unions interest really. Commited Sundays are an agreement between management and staff.

Technically if a driver said they were not coming in one Sunday there wouldn't be much the company could do in legal terms-overtime is just that and isn't legally binding. Otherwise it's contracted hours.

If a company were able to discipline a driver for not coming in on a Sunday then the driver would equally be able to claim pay for a rostered Sunday if booked off sick.

As I say, it's an agreement, not contractual.

So clarifying what will happen to us if we don't show up for a Sunday shift isn't in the unions interest? I'd have to disagree as the RMT were the ones who put us into committed Sunday's years ago after a barbecue Sunday. We were then offered a bigger pay award and extra pay on Sunday hours if we signed up to committed Sunday's. We were all then brought in one by one in front of HR and a valleys union rep who sat on the same side of the table as HR and were interrogated as to our reasons for not making ourselves available for Sunday work..... I'd like the agreement scrutinised to check the wording
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And yes I have asked the RMT rep what would happen if I didn't turn in and I was advised I leave myself open to disciplinary action and I have to work it.

 

[ComUtoR]

We were then offered a bigger pay award and extra pay on Sunday hours if we signed up to committed Sunday's.

The money spoke and now down the line its a bitter pill ?

 

[airwolf21]

The money spoke and now down the line its a bitter pill ?

Not really. I voted no.

 

[ComUtoR]

Not really. I voted no.

Democracy in action.

We have many conditions I despise and have little choice to suffer with. Many that go back more than a few years.

When I read "special working" I understood a little more about what's happening. We had a similar clause slipped in. Something similar happened on our last deal and more clauses were slipped in that are so ambiguous that the company basically get a free pass to do whatever they wish.

Keep up the good fight.

 

[A-driver]

So clarifying what will happen to us if we don't show up for a Sunday shift isn't in the unions interest? I'd have to disagree as the RMT were the ones who put us into committed Sunday's years ago after a barbecue Sunday. We were then offered a bigger pay award and extra pay on Sunday hours if we signed up to committed Sunday's. We were all then brought in one by one in front of HR and a valleys union rep who sat on the same side of the table as HR and were interrogated as to our reasons for not making ourselves available for Sunday work..... I'd like the agreement scrutinised to check the wording
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And yes I have asked the RMT rep what would happen if I didn't turn in and I was advised I leave myself open to disciplinary action and I have to work it.

You would be open to disciplinary but should you take it further through the legal system the company would have problems as its overtime, not part of your contract.

As I say, it's an agreement with the union, not part of your contract. Same as train planning rules and working practices are an agreement and not contractual.

 

[atw driver]

At yesterday's meeting the management appear to have conceded to about 80% of what they originally agreed to. They will now send a draft to the e.c who seem to be still not prepared to accept this. The e.c are not due to be in session until after the next week's strike and a couple of members are away though they will be available for a conference call if it comes to a vote over whether to suspend action.

 

[380101]

At yesterday's meeting the management appear to have conceded to about 80% of what they originally agreed to. They will now send a draft to the e.c who seem to be still not prepared to accept this. The e.c are not due to be in session until after the next week's strike and a couple of members are away though they will be available for a conference call if it comes to a vote over whether to suspend action.

Going by the closed Aslef group on Facebook seems as if the EC have decided to call off all action including the overtime ban. Not a good thing in my books as yet again it is the EC going against the wishes of their members. The OT ban should at least stay in place until ATW admit they have a driver shortage instead of burying their heads in the sand.

 

[455driver]

At yesterday's meeting the management appear to have conceded to about 80% of what they originally agreed to.

So they are still reneging on 20% of what they originally agreed!

 

[PHILIPE]

Next weeks strike and overtime ban called off pending EC examining new proposals