Proposed new SWT services for Yeovil, including Pen Mill via Westbury/Frome

[455driver]

It isn't up to SWT to 'show interest' in running the extra services, as DfT have already clearly stated (in the 2015 GW franchise agreement) that they will be operated by the GW franchisee.

It was also to be a GW franchise responsibility in the previous 2012 franchise spec that was abandoned.

SWT could have objected to the proposals and submitted their own but didn't.

 

[Muzer]

I was referring to the summer Weymouth train as per the OTT link above, as was Taunton.

As was I. What in that OTT link makes you think it isn't a passenger stop?

EDIT: Sorry, I'm an idiot, I completely missed the lack of "GBTT" times!

 

[James H]

More news here:
http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/14328512.New_Weymouth_Salisbury_summer_trains_on_track/

WEYMOUTH is in for a tourism boost following plans to run direct summer trains from North Dorset and Salisbury.

South West Trains says communities in Dorset as well as Somerset and Wiltshire would all benefit from more services and better connectivity, providing a boost to tourism with direct trains to Weymouth from across the region.

It is through making use of the link between Yeovil Pen Mill, which is on the Weymouth-Bristol line, with Yeovil Junction, on the Waterloo-Exeter line.

New direct services on summer Saturdays to Dorchester and Weymouth from Sherborne, Gillingham and Salisbury could start this May subject to consultation and regulatory approval.

 

[swt_passenger]

More news here:
http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/14328512.New_Weymouth_Salisbury_summer_trains_on_track/

A rather puzzling news story, I thought these Summer Saturday services had already been consulted on last March?

Or did the decision get deferred without it being made clear on the NR website?

 

[Monty]

Subject to getting the crews trained up on the route in time these services (though it's only one train in each direction on a Saturday during the summer) will run from this May. Though I was under the impression the train would run via Westbury and Yeovil Pen Mill rather than with a reversal at Yeovil Jct.

 

[PHILIPE]

The GWR HSTs to Weymouth on Summer Saturdays is unaffected according to RTT and Journey Planner. People have queried this at some stage.

 

[30907]

Subject to getting the crews trained up on the route in time these services (though it's only one train in each direction on a Saturday during the summer) will run from this May. Though I was under the impression the train would run via Westbury and Yeovil Pen Mill rather than with a reversal at Yeovil Jct.

The RTT entry linked earlier shows the route as via Junction-PM.

 

[swt_passenger]

SWT applied for two through services for this Waterloo to Weymouth route, but as well as the single through train each way that Monty has mentioned above there is also one each way between Yeovil Jn and Weymouth:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...1/0600-2000?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=SW

That RTT list should show just 'SW' moves at Pen Mill on 21st May, perhaps the two short trips will be extended (or could they split or join) later on?

 

[jamesr]

Nice to see something a bit innovative, but at 1hr14 between arriving in Yeovil and arriving in Weymouth - a distance of less than 30 miles - it's going to feel like a lot of travel time from places that aren't really that far from Weymouth. 15 minutes standing at Dorchester West will feel like an eternity. I hope it is well used, though.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

If it becomes popular enough and SWT could manage to source the required units could it run as a 6 car (2x3) from Waterloo-Yeovil Junction with the train dividing, one part going to Exeter and the other to Weymouth (would there be enough paths free in the first place from the junction in Dorchester down to Weymouth)?

 

[berneyarms]

A couple of other changes not commented upon above:

The 05:50 Yeovil Junction - Waterloo (Monday to Friday) will now start at Yeovil Pen Mill at 05:41.

The 15:50 Waterloo-Yeovil Pen Mill (via Yeovil Junction) will be curtailed to Yeovil Junction. Consequently the 18:33 Yeovil Pen Mill to Yeovil Junction will be cancelled.

 

[randyrippley]

Yeovil Junction (pop 40,000) where 2013/14 pax numbers are below 2008/09 usage is the only station on the line west of Salisbury not seeing good growth and now has 27,000 less pax per year than Tisbury (pop 2,056) and 1,000 less pax per year than Sherborne (pop 9,523). Yeovil Pen Mill use is rising with pax now about 2/3 that of Junction at 133,000 and Castle Cary (pop 2,276) has 32,000 pax more a year than Yeovil Jct.

Interesting point there....and something to bear in mind is that the bus links between Yeovil and Sherborne are much better than those between Yeovil and Yeovil Junction, with better connection times at Sherborne. Of course the Yeovil-Sherborne buses also pass Pen Mill
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The only station which was central and convenient was the one that was closed, Yeovil Town. In an ideal world all four approaches to the town would have been diverted into that station.

to be pedantic, FIVE approaches
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Pen Mill isn't centrally located but it's easier to access the town from here than Junction. It's a shame Yeovil Town isn't still open - Why was it closed and the other two left open? Did the whole line close?

The only through service at Yeovil Town was a five (?) a day service to Taunton on the B&E branch line via Martock. This was little-used as there were few stations, badly sited and the bus services were quicker. There were no through services to London from Yeovil Town. You either had to get the Taunton service through to Pen Mill (change at Pen Mill and maybe Westbury for Paddington) or an autocar service to the Junction for Waterloo. When the Taunton branch closed, there was little incentive to keep the Town station open: it was on a route to nowhere. To keep it open would have required the reopening of the east>north curve east of Yeovil Junction and new points allowing traffic into Town from the Weymouth line. Even then all trains would have had to reverse at Town. In those days, just too much hassle.

 

[berneyarms]

Interesting point there....and something to bear in mind is that the bus links between Yeovil and Sherborne are much better than those between Yeovil and Yeovil Junction, with better connection times at Sherborne. Of course the Yeovil-Sherborne buses also pass Pen Mill
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



to be pedantic, FIVE approaches
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The only through service at Yeovil Town was a five (?) a day service to Taunton on the B&E branch line via Martock. This was little-used as there were few stations, badly sited and the bus services were quicker. There were no through services to London from Yeovil Town. You either had to get the Taunton service through to Pen Mill (change at Pen Mill and maybe Westbury for Paddington) or an autocar service to the Junction for Waterloo. When the Taunton branch closed, there was little incentive to keep the Town station open: it was on a route to nowhere. To keep it open would have required the reopening of the east>north curve east of Yeovil Junction and new points allowing traffic into Town from the Weymouth line. Even then all trains would have had to reverse at Town. In those days, just too much hassle.

Bear in mind that the elements of this thread that you are replying to are from over a year ago!

 

[randyrippley]

Bear in mind that the elements of this thread that you are replying to are from over a year ago!

well aware - but someone else kicked the thread back into life and I thought there were a few unanswered questions which deserved looking at

 

[HarleyDavidson]

well aware - but someone else kicked the thread back into life and I thought there were a few unanswered questions which deserved looking at

And if you look now, you have Montacute, Stoke Sub Hamdon and Martock all now quite sizable villages along with Langport, which would have all been served by that line, also you could have had the possibility of a "Parkway" station for Yeovil on the A303. But hey, that's all long gone.

Shame someone hasn't got the brains to install a "Parkway" station for Yeovil at Sparkford just next to the A303 instead.

 

[JonathanH]

At £2.70 for a single ticket on the bus for about a five minute journey (as I found out yesterday), Yeovil isn't the easiest place to get from its station (Junction) to the town - is there actually a safe walking route at all?

 

[dgl]

Don't thinks so, it's all lanes around there without pavements, might be a route across the fields somewhere.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

If you want to walk it using the footpath's across the fields good luck to you.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?setmkt=en-gb

When you find Yeovil, zoom in and select Ordnance Survey Maps and you'll see why.

 

[randyrippley]

Don't thinks so, it's all lanes around there without pavements, might be a route across the fields somewhere.

theres a footpath / public access across Barwick Park from the top of Hendford Hill, but its a long way round and you really wouldn't want to do it.......

As for the bus service, for years buses weren't allowed to the Junction because the bridge over the Town - Pen Mill track bed was considered too weak, then around 20 years ago that decision suddenly got reversed - I suspect when Stagecoach got involved with the trains and told the County Council a few truths.

Historically, access to the Junction was always painful. Buses were banned because of the bridge, British Rail would only allow taxis licenced by them to pick up at the station, and because the station is actually a quarter of a mile into Dorset, fares into Yeovil crossed the border were totally unregulated and expensive. The killer was that they only licenced one taxi driver - a scruffy chap who also ran the station buffet on his own. So on a busy day, no buffet, or on a quiet day, no taxi. And even if there was a taxi, it could take an hour or more before he got back from the last trip.........
Another problem that Stagecoach sorted quickly
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And if you look now, you have Montacute, Stoke Sub Hamdon and Martock all now quite sizable villages along with Langport, which would have all been served by that line, also you could have had the possibility of a "Parkway" station for Yeovil on the A303. But hey, that's all long gone.

Shame someone hasn't got the brains to install a "Parkway" station for Yeovil at Sparkford just next to the A303 instead.

The problem with Montacute station was that it was too far from the village at the bottom of a hill, and even further from Stoke. The South Petherton > Yeovil bus service (Hutchings & Cornelius) ran a more frequent direct service to both Yeovil Town and Pen Mill, and ran through the middle of both villages, so most used that even if intending to later switch to rail. The station was only really used by the few people heading toward Taunton, as going there by bus would be slow and involve changes at either South Petherton or Ilminster

 

[Taunton]

If I'm not mistaken the original 1960s rationalisation plan for the SW line didn't include Yeovil Junction station staying open at all, passengers from the town were expected to railhead to Sherborne, on the basis that a more effective bus service could do that run. This failed because of protests, as at the time Sherborne was no more than a wayside station served only by the handful of stoppers, whereas the Junction had long been the principal mainline stop between Salisbury and Exeter. Somerset County Council was well to the fore in this, in no small part driven by Sherborne being in Dorset.

The problem with Montacute station was that it was too far from the village

This is actually true of the bulk of the former wayside stations across Somerset, they lost their patronage as soon as bus services became reliable in the 1920s. The GWR (or their forebears who built the lines) was bad enough in this respect, but the LSWR had managed to miss both the two significant towns along its route (Yeovil and Chard) by so much that a shuttle branch line service was required.

because the station [Yeovil Junction] is actually a quarter of a mile into Dorset

I always thought it was just into Somerset, the border running along the south side of the railway, with the entrance road on the north.

 

[dgl]

South Somerset around the Yeovil/Crewkerne/Misterton/Clapton area can be a bit confusing as to what is Somerset and what is Dorset (even Pen Mill is only about 1/2 mile into Somerset the border being at the Babylon Hill roundabout).

It's a similar situation in North Dorset where the Wiltshire/Dorset border extends into the edge of Shaftesbury (with some of the new build houses actually being over the border in Wiltshire) and at it western extremity where Uplyme should really be in Dorset but it isn't (but as far as postal services go it is in DorsetO

 

[randyrippley]

If I'm not mistaken the original 1960s rationalisation plan for the SW line didn't include Yeovil Junction station staying open at all, passengers from the town were expected to railhead to Sherborne, on the basis that a more effective bus service could do that run.

In reality that would have made sense: the A30 dual carriageway would have been in planning at that stage, with quicker connections between the two town

I always thought it was just into Somerset, the border running along the south side of the railway, with the entrance road on the north.

The border is the River Yeo tributary which runs through Stoford and actually passes under the approach road to the Junction station. At Yeovil the Yeo itself is the border - meaning the industrial units east of the bridge are in Dorset, though Dorset CC sometimes defers planning to Somerset CC advice
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

the LSWR had managed to miss both the two significant towns along its route (Yeovil and Chard) by so much that a shuttle branch line service was required.

Worse than that - Crewkerne station was a couple of miles out of the town at Misterton

 

[Ianno87]

At £2.70 for a single ticket on the bus for about a five minute journey (as I found out yesterday), Yeovil isn't the easiest place to get from its station (Junction) to the town - is there actually a safe walking route at all?

I tried walking along the main road a couple of years ago. Spent 30 minutes of my life in fear of a car tearing round a bend and taking me out. I would actively not recommend it!

 

[randyrippley]

I tried walking along the main road a couple of years ago. Spent 30 minutes of my life in fear of a car tearing round a bend and taking me out. I would actively not recommend it!

yep, those sunken roads are dangerous. You'd be safer walking up the railway line........actually I've not been along that stretch of track for years so memory fails, but there should be enough room there to run a cycle lane alongside the track right out to the Junction. Remember there used to be two broad gauge lines on the Pen Mill - Weymouth route, plus a standard gauge line from Junction to Town. Should be plenty of room - if the bridge at the bottom of Summerlease hill is still there

 

[70014IronDuke]

Have these new SWT services had any impact?

Is anyone actually using them from Yeovil PM to Waterloo? Or Waterloo to Frome, etc?

 

[vikingdriver]

Have these new SWT services had any impact?

Is anyone actually using them from Yeovil PM to Waterloo? Or Waterloo to Frome, etc?

A lot of us working these trains suspect that providing a service is not the reason these run and there are alterior motives. Who uses it? You normally seem to take 'enthusiasts' and drop off maybe a dozen passengers if you are lucky. Sometimes pick up a similar number.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

ORCATS or LENNON raids?

I mean if they did Exeter - Taunton - Westbury calling at those after a Padd HST has departed say 15' before I could understand them, as they'd provide a decent little connection to/from them, but I don't see them as anything other than above, running them for blocking up the spare capacity or simple route knowledge retention.

 

[70014IronDuke]

A lot of us working these trains suspect that providing a service is not the reason these run and there are alterior motives. Who uses it? You normally seem to take 'enthusiasts' and drop off maybe a dozen passengers if you are lucky. Sometimes pick up a similar number.

Well, I think it is accepted that the 'core' service was formed around a train that otherwise ran for route-retention purposes. why no make a bit of cash from that, if it is to run in any case.

But what do you mean, drop off a dozen passengers?
At Pen Mill? (that sounds believable).
Or at all stations between Westbury - Pen Mill? (That sounds very poor usage.)

Could you explain a bit more, if poss?

 

[Taunton]

ORCATS or LENNON raids?.

I think it depends on how Westbury/Frome/Cary are priced. If it is to Paddington, then these services do not scoop the current revenue up. But if it is to "London" then they can collect a proportion of it, even if they end up running as empty stock.

It also puzzles me why so much is made of these services being "run anyway for route retention reasons". How often do SWT ever get diverted via Westbury, and certainly not by Frome (surely if diverted they would use the avoider). But anyway, for driver knowledge route retention you surely don't need to run a whole 3-car dmu, do you? The crew could just ride along in the cab of existing services.

 

[swt_passenger]

How often do SWT ever get diverted via Westbury, and certainly not by Frome (surely if diverted they would use the avoider). But anyway, for driver knowledge route retention you surely don't need to run a whole 3-car dmu, do you? The crew could just ride along in the cab of existing services.

SWT get diverted via Westbury a good few times a year. It will be comparable with GW being diverted via Honiton, I think.