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Class 68 Progress, what's the latest?

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Emblematic

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The other company it's a huge problem for iis EMD/Progress Rail, they were caught out when the 710 proved impossible to clean up to EPA tier IV (comparable as EU IIIB) and are limited to developing markets until they can get their 4-stroke engine established in the market.
 
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coppercapped

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The other company it's a huge problem for iis EMD/Progress Rail, they were caught out when the 710 proved impossible to clean up to EPA tier IV (comparable as EU IIIB) and are limited to developing markets until they can get their 4-stroke engine established in the market.

I don't understand - EMD/Progress Rail has now been part of Caterpillar since 2012. Caterpillar already has suitable power plants.
 

Emblematic

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EMD is an engine manufacturer in it's own right, and I don't believe the intention is to use Caterpillar engines; rather they are looking to use their own design engine originally launched (unsuccessfully) in the 90s and which has been manufactured and developed further in China since.
 

Sunbird24

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EMD is an engine manufacturer in it's own right, and I don't believe the intention is to use Caterpillar engines; rather they are looking to use their own design engine originally launched (unsuccessfully) in the 90s and which has been manufactured and developed further in China since.
Probably not going their own way as they are both controlled by the same company.
While Caterpillar are developing the C175-20 and C280 using Selective Catalytic Reduction based Tier 4 emission controls the EMD division is developing the new 1010 using Exhaust Gas Recirculation based Tier 4 emission controls. There is a possibility that these two methods can be combined at some future date. Both methods have advantages and disadvantages which have to be weighed up. For the time being it makes sense to develop the two methods independently.
EMD will be testing the 1010 this year and hope to have it in a production locomotive next year. Caterpillar are already fitting the C175-20 into the new F125. These are large locomotives and space is perhaps not a major issue but the 1010 is designed for use in Tugboats also and they do have very serious concerns over the physical size and the theory is that currently the EGR system will take up less space than the SCR system. One disadvantage is that they failed to get the EGR system to work with the 710 engine which is why they have now dropped it. They had hoped to continue to sell the Tier 3 710 outside USA but with more countries switching to Tier 4 that option is dwindling. As things develop so the pendulum may continue to swing back and forth.
 

Emblematic

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Probably not going their own way as they are both controlled by the same company.
While Caterpillar are developing the C175-20 and C280 using Selective Catalytic Reduction based Tier 4 emission controls the EMD division is developing the new 1010 using Exhaust Gas Recirculation based Tier 4 emission controls. There is a possibility that these two methods can be combined at some future date. Both methods have advantages and disadvantages which have to be weighed up. For the time being it makes sense to develop the two methods independently.
EMD will be testing the 1010 this year and hope to have it in a production locomotive next year. Caterpillar are already fitting the C175-20 into the new F125. These are large locomotives and space is perhaps not a major issue but the 1010 is designed for use in Tugboats also and they do have very serious concerns over the physical size and the theory is that currently the EGR system will take up less space than the SCR system. One disadvantage is that they failed to get the EGR system to work with the 710 engine which is why they have now dropped it. They had hoped to continue to sell the Tier 3 710 outside USA but with more countries switching to Tier 4 that option is dwindling. As things develop so the pendulum may continue to swing back and forth.
Agreed, EMDs own literature notes that Caterpillar's resources helped in the development of the 1010; so it's less a case of EMD going it alone, more a case of Caterpillar deciding that preserving a separate EMD engine line gives them best market coverage. As you point out, they are ready to put a Cat engine in an EMD loco when it best fits the requirements.
As I recall, the issue with EGR on the 710 was not that it didn't work, it actually worked very well; but the EPA tier IV particulate levels were much lower when published than anticipated, and EGR helps NOx but not particulates, leading to a need for impractically sized exhaust filtration.
 

ac6000cw

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As I recall, the issue with EGR on the 710 was not that it didn't work, it actually worked very well; but the EPA tier IV particulate levels were much lower when published than anticipated, and EGR helps NOx but not particulates, leading to a need for impractically sized exhaust filtration.

A quote from a Trains magazine article ('Lenz' is the head of EMD's engine development):

"Using a pair of borrowed Union Pacific SD70ACes fitted with large roof boxes for emissions testing, Lenz says EMD successfully got the 710 engine up to Tier 4 requirements. But while the tests were successful, the resulting design was too heavy, too cumbersome and not cost competitive enough to be marketable. In particular, the fuel economy was worse than for Tier 3."

As far as the US and European diesel loco market is concerned, there endeth 75+ years of EMD 2-stroke diesel development...

My understanding is that the main reason EMD and GE didn't go down the SCR route to reduce NOx emissions is because their railroad customers did not want to have to supply Urea (for the SCR system) as another consumable at every fuelling point. That's quite a big issue when locos wander round all over the continent (US, Canada and Mexico) - 'run through' operation of freight motive power is very common these days.

Most passenger locos tend to stay in a small area (or use a very small number of fuelling points) so using SCR/Urea for those isn't a big issue, hence the Cat C175 in the the EMD F125 and the Cummins QSK95 in the Siemens 'Charger'.
 

themiller

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On a walk from Seascale today, I spotted a 68 in the loops at Sellafield. It was 68021 with its name (Tireless) parked up. I hadn't realised that the compass logo on the 68s is different from the 37s in that the logo includes a part map of Cumbria in the white segments. I don't know what the 68 was there for.
 

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Peter Sarf

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The Northern Belle seems to have operated with 68016 and 68017 on 20/05/2016 & 21/05/2016.

Its looking possible that they will also work to London
on 24/05/2016 (Tomorrow Tue)
RTT - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U63286/2016/05/24/advanced

and 25/05/2015 (Wed)
RTT - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U52254/2016/05/25/advanced

The likely alternatives are two of 57305, 57306 & 57312 as these have been the usual performers afaik in the last few months.

That will make a bit of variety for me in the SE if they are 68s.
 
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palmersears

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Can confirm 68016 & 68017 worked the Northern Belle on 20/5, saw them working thorough Stockport late afternoon on the way to Victoria.
 

PHILIPE

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Devonman2014

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Probably it is, but I was wondering what for?

Can confirm 68017 arrived light engine and has stabled overnight in the siding adjacent platform 2 at St Davids.

Working to Penzance and return in morning.

Route learning as far as we are aware
 

superalbs

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Can confirm 68017 arrived light engine and has stabled overnight in the siding adjacent platform 2 at St Davids.

Working to Penzance and return in morning.

Route learning as far as we are aware

What time in the morning will it leave the siding at Exeter?
 

158722

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Could it have been a gauging test? Is it the first time they have run some of those sections? Is the distance between bogie pivots longer than other locos using that route?

Correcting my earlier assertion - you are indeed correct. Its due to expected NR test train workings in June and railtour using Northern Belle stock. Gen from an impeccable source - one of the drivers, a mate of mine, trip also counting for a route refresher for him.
 

gimmea50anyday

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Wonder how long it will take before one emerges in TPE colours.

Given the choice of names seems to reflect warship (and class 50) names wonder if we will see one of the future deliveries named Ark Royal.....
 

61653 HTAFC

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Wonder how long it will take before one emerges in TPE colours.

Given the choice of names seems to reflect warship (and class 50) names wonder if we will see one of the future deliveries named Ark Royal.....

I hope the TPE locos are given names with a connection with the route... how about one named "Captain Jean-Luc Picard" and another named "Baroness Boothroyd of Dewsbury"?
 

gimmea50anyday

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That is actually a brilliant idea! Love it!!! Will put it to the brass bods. Naturally will pass on the credit..

There's just one tiny flaw, Jean-Luc Picard is French! So in order to maintain the Huddersfield connection the name would have to be the far more english sounding Patrick Stewart!

Newcastle could be john Dobson, or (Geoffrey) Grainger (bobby Robson having already been pinched by VTEC) Liverpool one of the fab 4 would be too obvious, but husskison links in the heritage and the route well,
 

61653 HTAFC

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That is actually a brilliant idea! Love it!!! Will put it to the brass bods. Naturally will pass on the credit..

There's just one tiny flaw, Jean-Luc Picard is French! So in order to maintain the Huddersfield connection the name would have to be the far more english sounding Patrick Stewart!

Newcastle could be john Dobson, or (Geoffrey) Grainger (bobby Robson having already been pinched by VTEC) Liverpool one of the fab 4 would be too obvious, but husskison links in the heritage and the route well,

It was my inner geek which led me to suggest a name after the character rather than the actor... (Patrick Stewart is actually from Mirfield which has the TLA of "MIR"- another connection with space travel!). Grand Central has 180s named after (among others) James Herriot and Ashley Jackson, so naming TPE's new trains after people or places en-route makes sense to me. However my namesake locomotive already has a modern equivalent in the form of 66738. Besides, that would mean the possibility of one poor 68 being tarnished with the name of that rabble down by the M621!
 

Helvellyn

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I hope the TPE locos are given names with a connection with the route... how about one named "Captain Jean-Luc Picard" and another named "Baroness Boothroyd of Dewsbury"?
Might be controversial, but given the Warship theme on so many what about Regiments for the TPE ones?


  • The Royal Regiment of Scotland
  • The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers (Northumberland, Lancashire)
  • The Rifles (Durham; South Yorkshire)
  • The Yorkshire Regiment
  • The Duke of Lancaster's Regiment (Liverpool; Manchester; Lancashire; Cumbria)
  • The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards (Scotland)
  • The Royal Dragoon Guards (West Yorkshire; North Yorkshire)
  • The King's Royal Hussars (Lancashire; Cumbria)
  • The Light Dragoons (Northumberland; Durham; East Yorkshire)
  • The Royal Tank Regiment (Scotland)
 
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