EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[WestCoast]

Let's not forget that much of the electorate believes that the economic hardship will be worth it to free ourselves from the shackles of the EU. The views expressed on this forum are nowhere near reflective of the general mood which is not wholly negative. I say this as a complete europhile.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Let's not forget that much of the electorate believes that the economic hardship will be worth it to free ourselves from the shackles of the EU. The views expressed on this forum are nowhere near reflective of the general mood which is not wholly negative. I say this as a complete europhile.

It's easy to say that kind of thing until reality bites.

 

[DarloRich]

EU still trying to run OUR country?

what are you talking about? They are telling us to sling our hook asap. Who can blame them? You chaps voted to leave. What is stopping you?

 

[WestCoast]

It's easy to say that kind of thing until reality bites.

It's all about perception though, isn't it? Any issues can just as easily be framed as the EU "causing trouble" or "giving us a hard time" and the right wing press and sections of the electorate will lap it up. I'm certain that many people will never change their minds.

 

[DarloRich]

Osborne now on record as saying that he is going to raise taxes and cut spending.

but that should be obvious - how else can he meet the level of funding required to deliver all the committed projects ( both EU and UK funded) without the additional EU money. There will be a shock when people understand just what the EU paid for.

After all - he cant use the £350m per week as that has gone to the health service.
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It's all about perception though, isn't it? Any issues can just as easily be framed as the EU "causing trouble" or "giving us a hard time" and the right wing press and sections of the electorate will lap it up. I'm certain that many people will never change their minds.

who will they blame when we leave?

 

[GarethJohn]

but that should be obvious - how else can he meet the level of funding required to deliver all the committed projects ( both EU and UK funded) without the additional EU money. There will be a shock when people understand just what the EU paid for.

After all - he cant use the £350m per week as that has gone to the health service.
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who will they blame when we leave?

How about the RMT & ASLEF?

 

[WestCoast]

who will they blame when we leave?

Well, if we join the EEA then it really will be the EU telling us what to do!

Alternatively, lazy benefit claimants? Greedy bankers? Parking wardens? Students? I don't know, there's always someone isn't there. :roll:

 

[ExRes]

Imagine if Labour had won the last election with their pledge of putting more money in to the NHS and then not only said they misled voters over that claim but removed the legislation that doesn't allow them to remain in office for more than 5 years. That's effectively what Vote Leave have done.

The electorate would have shouted and screamed but, if Labour had enough backing to avoid a vote of no confidence, they would still be in power

 

[TheKnightWho]

It's all about perception though, isn't it? Any issues can just as easily be framed as the EU "causing trouble" or "giving us a hard time" and the right wing press and sections of the electorate will lap it up. I'm certain that many people will never change their minds.

Oddly enough that hasn't happened yet, but you're right. I suspect that the Out campaign is too much of a shambles at the moment to do that yet.

 

[ExRes]

Shame he hasn't turned up for any of the other meetings he was supposed to..... Maybe our fishing industry would be in better shape if he did amongst other things.

The British fishing industry was destroyed by Edward Heath and the EU in the 1970s, I can't see how Farage, born 1964, can be held responsible for that

 

[YorkshireBear]

The British fishing industry was destroyed by Edward Heath and the EU in the 1970s, I can't see how Farage, born 1964, can be held responsible for that

I am not holding him responsible but he had an opportunity to start change for the better and did not go.

So he did not do the job he was paid to do with public money????

Nothing short of disgraceful in my eyes.

 

[Howardh]

what are you talking about? They are telling us to sling our hook asap. Who can blame them? You chaps voted to leave. What is stopping you?

If our cat didn't already have a name...

Was a bit drizzly this morning, but the cat was at the door meowing loudly to be let out.

So, opened the door, and being a cat she just stood there, stared outside and decided it was best to stay put and do it all in the tray instead.

What's the female equivalent of Boris? Borissia??

 

[DarloRich]

If our cat didn't already have a name...

Was a bit drizzly this morning, but the cat was at the door meowing loudly to be let out.

So, opened the door, and being a cat she just stood there, stared outside and decided it was best to stay put and do it all in the tray instead.

What's the female equivalent of Boris? Borissia??

eh - have you not had your tablets today?

 

[muz379]

No dear boy their telling us to leave as soon as possible! Which is what Boris Johnson wanted, right??

What Johnson wanted and still wants is for us to informally negotiate a separation agreement with the EU , unfortunately the treaty is quite clear on what the actual procedure is and the leaders of the remaining EU seem quite committed to upholding that treaty that was ratified by all 28 of us .

What he should have probably written on the other side of the bus was "Ive not read article 50 , nor have any of my team so in all honesty we are not quite sure what the leaving procedure is but we are gonna wing it "

In all seriousness vote leave should have probably instructed constitutional and international lawyers at some point during their campaign in order that they had a clear understanding of the next steps . But that would not have sat well with their principled approach of not listening to experts .

 

[vrbarreto]

What Johnson wanted and still wants is for us to informally negotiate a separation agreement with the EU , unfortunately the treaty is quite clear on what the actual procedure is and the leaders of the remaining EU seem quite committed to upholding that treaty that was ratified by all 28 of us .

What he should have probably written on the other side of the bus was "Ive not read article 50 , nor have any of my team so in all honesty we are not quite sure what the leaving procedure is but we are gonna wing it "

In all seriousness vote leave should have probably instructed constitutional and international lawyers at some point during their campaign in order that they had a clear understanding of the next steps . But that would not have sat well with their principled approach of not listening to experts .

Boris was probably not expecting to win and didn't have a strategy as he didn't expect he'd need one.

He's in the worst possible position.. Having to do the dirty on the Union and deal with the potential fall out when things start going South.

 

[DarloRich]

What Johnson wanted and still wants is for us to informally negotiate a separation agreement with the EU , unfortunately the treaty is quite clear on what the actual procedure is and the leaders of the remaining EU seem quite committed to upholding that treaty that was ratified by all 28 of us .

What he should have probably written on the other side of the bus was "Ive not read article 50 , nor have any of my team so in all honesty we are not quite sure what the leaving procedure is but we are gonna wing it "

In all seriousness vote leave should have probably instructed constitutional and international lawyers at some point during their campaign in order that they had a clear understanding of the next steps . But that would not have sat well with their principled approach of not listening to experts .

Indeed! In or out. No option for nuance.

 

[northwichcat]

ITV has lost £2.5bn in value since Brexit and could now be taken over by an American company: http://www.thedrum.com/news/2016/06...rendum&utm_campaign=social&utm_source=twitter

 

[Bletchleyite]

ITV has lost £2.5bn in value since Brexit and could now be taken over by an American company: http://www.thedrum.com/news/2016/06...rendum&utm_campaign=social&utm_source=twitter

I can't say that I would be bothered by that in the slightest, I never watch it, it just shows drivel compared with the other channels.
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Indeed! In or out. No option for nuance.

Plenty of options for nuance - EEA, EFTA etc. But the procedure must be followed.

 

[DarloRich]

Plenty of options for nuance - EEA, EFTA etc. But the procedure must be followed.

Not on the ticket. In or out were the choices. We chose out. We didn't get a choice of in/out/maybe negotiate a better deal. Surely there was a plan for out winning.............

 

[martin2345uk]

Oh Nigel

Is there any need for talk like this??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36650014

 

[Domh245]

Oh Nigel

Is there any need for talk like this??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36650014

How to get a good trade deal, by Nigel, age 52

1) Insult the people you are trying to make a deal with

2) ????

3) Profit

I thought it was quite funny to watch the guy behind facepalm when he said no trade deal would hurt the EU more than the UK.

 

[crehld]

The British fishing industry was destroyed by Edward Heath and the EU in the 1970s, I can't see how Farage, born 1964, can be held responsible for that

Farage was a member of the European Parliament fisheries committee. This put him in a position of considerable influence to shape EU fisheries policy, or even, if he so desired, to undermine it from within if that was his aim. But he only attended one out of over 40 meetings - that is not the behaviour of someone who supported the British fishing industry. Rather it demonstrative of the behaviour of someone who either actively wanted to undermine it, or perhaps of someone who wanted to gain his tax-payer funded salary for little or no work.

As for what destroyed the UK fishing industry try doing some research on the Cod Wars with Iceland, and in particular the failure of successive British governments to listen to the fishing industry's concerns and its failure to engage in international negotiations on the maintenance of fish stocks in a meaningful way. This goes back way before Heath and indeed this country's membership of the then EEC. Yet another example how the EU is incorrectly blamed for a problem which was wholly created by the UK government.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Not on the ticket. In or out were the choices. We chose out. We didn't get a choice of in/out/maybe negotiate a better deal. Surely there was a plan for out winning.............

It does seem that Vote Leave were banking on someone else coming up with a post Brexit plan. It's a mess.

The short term volatility of share prices esp. FTSE 250 (whilst not great news) will probably calm down fairly soon. There will be an immediate increase in fuel prices and that may well filter through to consumer prices. A mid term effect will be when retailers and manufacturers who have pre-paid for stock/materials have to reorder and the exchange rates will then have a negative effect on prices.

You will also have the effect on businesses not investing/not recruiting whilst they wait and see what any deal might look like.

People voted for change. These people weren't idiots or racists. Far from it in many cases. They just didn't feel things were working for them. However, was that purely the EU or a wider malaise? I'd suggest the latter from people who I know voted to go. My home town voted to go - there's no immigration there, no competition for jobs against migrants (and it's relatively affluent - despite being in the North!). They've just had 8 years of hardship and austerity with more to come; people just think that things can't get any worse. On that basis, I think they may have been misled.

I'm sure that eventually it will all settle down. However, what will we actually end up with? At what cost will that be? Will it be worthwhile?

ps I sincerely hope I'm wrong. Those people who voted Remain (of which I was one) weren't somehow immunised against financial ills. If we do go into recession, we will all be affected.

 

[muz379]

How to get a good trade deal, by Nigel, age 52

1) Insult the people you are trying to make a deal with

2) ????

3) Profit

I thought it was quite funny to watch the guy behind facepalm when he said no trade deal would hurt the EU more than the UK.

I would agree in thinking it was funny . If it was not for the fact that the man is being serious and there is some possibility that a majority of the 17.5 million people voted for this model of negotiations and his belief (despite evidence to the contrary from the leaders our prime minister met with today) that we can secure a deal with Europe that includes no trading tariffs on goods or services but also no freedom of movement .

 

[anme]

You do seem to be having an almighty sulk you need to have a severe word with yourself.

Commenting on Project Farce is not sulking.
Leave supporters, on the other hand, are sulking, as they are proved to be wrong in every respect, just a few days after the referendum.
We remainers are allowed to laugh a bit, but only a bit as it's our country too.

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How to get a good trade deal, by Nigel, age 52

1) Insult the people you are trying to make a deal with

2) ????

3) Profit

I thought it was quite funny to watch the guy behind facepalm when he said no trade deal would hurt the EU more than the UK.

Is he really only 52? He's a good reminder of why you should go easy on the booze and fags.

 

[Antman]

Oh Nigel

Is there any need for talk like this??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36650014

Certainly preferable to the grovelling of David Cameron!
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Commenting on Project Farce is not sulking.
Leave supporters, on the other hand, are sulking, as they are proved to be wrong in every respect, just a few days after the referendum.
We remainers are allowed to laugh a bit, but only a bit as it's our country too.

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Is he really only 52? He's a good reminder of why you should go easy on the booze and fags.

I've not come across any leave supporters sulking and I can only assume that having to resort to snide digs about how old Nigel Farage looks means that you are struggling to find any worthwhile criticisms of him?

 

[TheKnightWho]

Certainly preferable to the grovelling of David Cameron!
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I've not come across any leave supporters sulking and I can only assume that having to resort to snide digs about how old Nigel Farage looks means that you are struggling to find any worthwhile criticisms of him?

Pretty sure that saying how he is screwing up our chances of getting a good deal is a good criticism, Antman. How bad will it have to get for you to admit we screwed up?

Frankly, I'm reminded on a child throwing a tantrum and then demanding its own way with Farage.

 

[radamfi]

The First Past the Post voting system was ultimately to blame for the referendum. The system encourages parties to become broad churches as otherwise the vote would be split, destroying electoral prospects. So the Conservative Party has to include people with vastly different viewpoints. A minority of MPs in the Commons support leaving the EU, yet there was still a referendum.

In other European countries, such broad churches are unnecessary and so Eurosceptics would generally congregate in a party of their own. So it is highly unlikely for a referendum to occur because unless the Eurosceptic party gets an overall majority on its own (difficult under proportional representation), the other parties could easily block it.

 

[northwichcat]

The Mirror reported Ellie Goulding made a speech for unity following Brexit at Glastonbury. The Daily Mail decided to focus on what Ms Goulding was wearing instead.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Not on the ticket. In or out were the choices. We chose out. We didn't get a choice of in/out/maybe negotiate a better deal. Surely there was a plan for out winning.............

Yes David Cameron was supposed to sort out the mess! Not surprisingly he's told them where to go!