EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Bletchleyite]

Nigel Garage? No, a garage has uses.

 

[Mvann]

Not if the UK join the EEA which is the most likely scenario, as under those rules, we will be unable to.

But as the offer is likely to be before any agreement for EEA is organised, and other countries, according to the experts, want to do more with Britain but can't because of the EU. They are probably less likely to want to deal with the EU if the ttip talks are anything to go by.

 

[anme]

Throwing abuse at somebody really isn't the way to go in a grown ups debate:roll:

True. The way grown ups debate is by telling us what they think should happen now. They tell us whether they support EEA membership with full freedom of movement of goods, services, capital and people, or something else. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Antman]

Look at how unhappy the leave supporters are on here. Nobody likes to be proven so spectacularly wrong so quickly, and these people don't really have the wherewithal to defend themselves.

I started writing about how Nigel Garage is a vile little man and his behaviour in the European Parliament showed everything that is wrong with the whole concept of patriotism, but I didn't post it as I thought it was obvious.

Anyway, we're still waiting to hear your grand plan. I think it's time to tell us now, don't you?

What leave supporters on here?

I don't have a grand plan, I'm not running the country:roll:

I don't particularly like David Cameron but I'm not going to make offensive comments about him because, well what's the point?

 

[Mvann]

To be completely honest, this referendum is at least 20 years to late. When the EEC was being changed to the EU, there should have been one then. And if there are going to be any more changes to the EU, why should we have to wait another 40 years for another.

 

[TheKnightWho]

What leave supporters on here?

I don't have a grand plan, I'm not running the country:roll:

I don't particularly like David Cameron but I'm not going to make offensive comments about him because, well what's the point?

People aren't calling Farage a racist because they don't like him. They're calling him a racist because he's racist.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I don't have a grand plan, I'm not running the country:roll:

Why on earth did you vote for a course of action that had no plan whatsoever?

 

[Harbornite]

Of course nobody has the right to shout abuse at anybody on public transport whatever their motive.

If you think Farage is a racist that's your opinion to which you entitled but should you really be saying it on here?

Well duh, this is a forum and we have a degree of free speech. There are rules and a report button y'know, and the comments in question don't warrant the use of these.

 

[Mvann]

If I'm unhappy about leaving, then I'm very unhappy about the way the EU is heading towards a United States of Europe. So what choice do I have. Stay in and get change. Like that's gonna happen. The EU commission won't change from there stated aims. You think Germany and the the uk can get change against the EU and 26 other countries? Only now we have had a vote to leave and said leave have any other countries come out and said either we need reform, or we shouldn't be to hasty in more harmanisation just because the uk is leaving.

 

[Rich McLean]

But as the offer is likely to be before any agreement for EEA is organised, and other countries, according to the experts, want to do more with Britain but can't because of the EU. They are probably less likely to want to deal with the EU if the ttip talks are anything to go by.

But the EEA arrangement could be agreed as a temporary arrangement, with a review at a further date, which would be after a General Election.

If TTIP goes through, then we either leave the EEA and stay out of it, or accept it.

Government officials have said they want to keep Free Trade even at the cost of FoM, and the EU have openly said if they want access to the Single Market, then FoM would have to continue, no iff's and no butts.

However that said, they could have a similar agreement, like EEA, but with the freedom of trading separately with the rest of the world under our own agreements.

 

[Mvann]

And if that was offered that we had free trade with the 30 EU/EEA areas and could stil organise are own deals outside the EU then that's what I would vote for. But I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening.

 

[anme]

What leave supporters on here?

Look at their little faces! Look how unhappy they are! It's almost as if they understand.

I don't have a grand plan, I'm not running the country:roll:

You must have thought about it before you voted leave, right? How did you know the alternative to the EU was better if you hadn't thought about what the alternative was?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Why on earth did you vote for a course of action that had no plan whatsoever?

It does seem to be akin to being stood in Middlesbrough and thinking "I don't like this town" and getting on the first bus out of there. Only to discover you're then stuck in Hartlepool and don't know why or what to do next.

A failure to plan is to plan for failure, as the old adage goes....

We can only hope we get something half decent sorted for when we leave the EU but we're not in the strongest of bargaining positions

 

[anme]

And if that was offered that we had free trade with the 30 EU/EEA areas and could stil organise are own deals outside the EU then that's what I would vote for. But I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening.

How could that possibly work on any practical level?

 

[Antman]

Well duh, this is a forum and we have a degree of free speech. There are rules and a report button y'know, and the comments in question don't warrant the use of these.

Duh, and yes it is supposed to be an adult forum:roll:

It seems a lot of people on here voted remain simply put the boot into Nigel Farage rather than for any sound and rational reason and now it hasn't worked it's just endless vitriol and bile.

 

[Domh245]

Duh, and yes it is supposed to be an adult forum:roll:

Is it? There are quite a few young members on here and indeed the rules go so far as to say it is a family friendly forum

Please ensure your contributions are suitable for the wide age range we have as forum members. We have a duty to ensure that offensive material has no place on this forum, and that content remains family friendly.

It seems a lot of people on here voted remain simply put the boot into Nigel Farage rather than for any sound and rational reason and now it hasn't worked it's just endless vitriol and bile.

I voted remain because I felt that on the balance of things, it was the better option. I couldn't give a flying f*** about what Farage says and I certainly wouldn't vote against someone out of spite, not on an issue as important as this. Now he is going around sprouting nonsense so it is only fair that he receives an appropriate level of discussion for this.

 

[Harbornite]

Duh, and yes it is supposed to be an adult forum:roll:

It seems a lot of people on here voted remain simply put the boot into Nigel Farage rather than for any sound and rational reason and now it hasn't worked it's just endless vitriol and bile.

Oh the irony.

Why do you raise the issue of it being an adult forum when you are actually incorrect. Why is that relevant? Smh :roll:
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Look at their little faces! Look how unhappy they are! It's almost as if they understand.



You must have thought about it before you voted leave, right? How did you know the alternative to the EU was better if you hadn't thought about what the alternative was?

Seems like he voted leave for the sake of it, or because he doesn't like immigrants.

 

[Mvann]

The EU will drive a hard bargain because they never believed that a country would leave from there utopia. It must be utopia right, free trade, free movement, the armed forces run from Brussels, the police forces harmonised, the money markets moved to contentinental Europe, European passports so no need for a national one.
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How could that possibly work on any practical level?

Why couldn't apart from the obvious reason that the EU would get upset if we got bet deals than the rest of the EU. If I'm trading with Canada whats that got to do with the EU

 

[Antman]

Oh the irony.

Why do you raise the issue of it being an adult forum when you are actually incorrect. Why is that relevant? Smh :roll:
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Seems like he voted leave for the sake of it, or because he doesn't like immigrants.

Oh the irony indeed, I see you've made some equally silly comments about Roy Hodgson in another thread, enough said:roll:

 

[cjmillsnun]

Nope. We voted to leave, now we should get on with it. The EU are stating the obvious.

But they can't do a thing until we invoke article 50.

 

[backontrack]

Duh, and yes it is supposed to be an adult forum:roll:

Oh, is it? I'm 14, should I go?

 

[Mvann]

So obviously the remainers on here don't believe the EU is utopia either. Or mentioned any impracticalities in my EEA suggestion. And I don't suppose they have any practical suggestions to have there voices heard for EU Reforms

 

[Harbornite]

Oh the irony indeed, I see you've made some equally silly comments about Roy Hodgson in another thread, enough said:roll:

There is a separate thread for football, if you have an issue with my comments (this is the first I've heard of it) then take it up over there and I'll make sure that I don't bother responding. If you thought my comments were silly then I do worry about you.

 

[anme]

The EU will drive a hard bargain because they never believed that a country would leave from there utopia. It must be utopia right, free trade, free movement, the armed forces run from Brussels, the police forces harmonised, the money markets moved to contentinental Europe, European passports so no need for a national one.

To me, that sounds really good.

Why couldn't apart from the obvious reason that the EU would get upset if we got bet deals than the rest of the EU. If I'm trading with Canada whats that got to do with the EU

Let's say that England and Wales had a trade deal with Canada where cheese exported from E&W was subject to a 5% tariff on arrival in Canada.
Let's say that the EU's deal with Canada had a 20% tariff.
As a Finnish cheese exporter, I can avoid the 20% tariff by moving my cheese through England and Wales, and pay only 5%.

Canada will have chosen to impose the tariff for a reason, e.g. to protect their home grown artisan cheese industry from mass produced Finnish cheese. BTW, the Finnish factories are churning out way more cheese than the EU can consume due to sudden increased awareness about cholesterol levels, and the Finnish cheese conglomerates are dumping their excess production on the international markets at whatever price they can get for it.
The Canadian cheese industry, with its small volumes, long maturation periods and famous cow welfare programmes would be destroyed.

Canada would obviously not agree to giving England and Wales a better trade deal than the EU if the E&W were part of the single market, as it would allow the whole single market to take advantage of it. And, of course, vice versa if the EU's deal was better than E&W's.

[Example obviously fictional]
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So obviously the remainers on here don't believe the EU is utopia either. Or mentioned any impracticalities in my EEA suggestion. And I don't suppose they have any practical suggestions to have there voices heard for EU Reforms

Has anyone ever claimed that anywhere on Earth is utopia? (apart from the UKIP utopia of 1950's England, of course)

I have explained why your EEA proposal would not work above. And if it would work, don't you think one of the 31ish members of the EEA would have thought of it already?

I have a practical suggestion for how to have our voices heard for EU reforms - stay in the EU. Seriously. Don't you think that would be the most effective?

 

[Mvann]

And you think the one voice of uk plus maybe Germany will get any real change?
Any trade agreement can be worded as required. If the deal specifically said English cheddar, Stilton cheese, etc, the Finnish couldn't use that loophole because the EU has given certain cheeses protected status. If Finland tried, they would be in breach. There are ways of doing trade deals that would stop it. Might be a bit restrictive on certain items but it's not impossible and may not be that impractical
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It's not 31ish EEA members though is it. 28 as was our restricted because they are in the EU. They don't allow seperate non EU trade deals.

 

[anme]

But they can't do a thing until we invoke article 50.

They can refuse to talk to us.

 

[Rich McLean]

To me, that sounds really good.



Let's say that England and Wales had a trade deal with Canada where cheese exported from E&W was subject to a 5% tariff on arrival in Canada.
Let's say that the EU's deal with Canada had a 20% tariff.
As a Finnish cheese exporter, I can avoid the 20% tariff by moving my cheese through England and Wales, and pay only 5%.

Canada will have chosen to impose the tariff for a reason, e.g. to protect their home grown artisan cheese industry from mass produced Finnish cheese. BTW, the Finnish factories are churning out way more cheese than the EU can consume due to sudden increased awareness about cholesterol levels, and the Finnish cheese conglomerates are dumping their excess production on the international markets at whatever price they can get for it.
The Canadian cheese industry, with its small volumes, long maturation periods and famous cow welfare programmes would be destroyed.

Canada would obviously not agree to giving England and Wales a better trade deal than the EU if the E&W were part of the single market, as it would allow the whole single market to take advantage of it. And, of course, vice versa if the EU's deal was better than E&W's.

[Example obviously fictional]
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Has anyone ever claimed that anywhere on Earth is utopia? (apart from the UKIP utopia of 1950's England, of course)

I have explained why your EEA proposal would not work above. And if it would work, don't you think one of the 31ish members of the EEA would have thought of it already?

I have a practical suggestion for how to have our voices heard for EU reforms - stay in the EU. Seriously. Don't you think that would be the most effective?

Restrictions would be placed on exporting goods via the UK. We could export goods into Europe and import goods from it, but we would be barred from trading those products on to other nations who we have trade deals with.

Same would apply for goods coming from another country who the UK strike deals with. We would be barred from trading that product on to the rest of Europe.

But for that second reason, I admit the EU would not accept such terms

 

[anme]

And you think the one voice of uk plus maybe Germany will get any real change?

Exactly what changes are you proposing? Why do you think such changes would only be supported by UK and Germany? Why would Belgium, Poland and Portugal be so against? Surely Latvia could be persuaded, especially if Austria was also on board?

Any trade agreement can be worded as required. If the deal specifically said English cheddar, Stilton cheese, etc, the Finnish couldn't use that loophole because the EU has given certain cheeses protected status. If Finland tried, they would be in breach. There are ways of doing trade deals that would stop it. Might be a bit restrictive on certain items but it's not impossible and may not be that impractical

I don't claim to be an expert in this area, although I do know something about it in a professional capacity. Maybe you're a customs lawyer.
But why do you think the UK (population 65 million) can secure a better trade deal than the EU+EEA (440 million excluding the UK)?
And what SPECIFICALLY would you be looking for? What is SPECIFICALLY unfavourable about the EU's trade deals?

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It's not 31ish EEA members though is it. 28 as was our restricted because they are in the EU. They don't allow seperate non EU trade deals.

Ironically that sentence doesn't appear to be in English.
Maybe you can check whether Iceland, Norway or Switzerland have any of these special trade deals you want. Perhaps you could google for "cuckoo clocks puffin feathers fjord real estate special trade deal".
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Restrictions would be placed on exporting goods via the UK. We could export goods into Europe and import goods from it, but we would be barred from trading those products on to other nations who we have trade deals with.

Same would apply for goods coming from another country who the UK strike deals with. We would be barred from trading that product on to the rest of Europe.

How could this possibly be enforced?

 

[Groningen]

Quote from Boris Johnson: People of Britain can always work in the EU: reside, study, buy houses and life. There will always be free trade and access to the internal market. Only thing that changes are dumping of the EU laws.

Well; does this also apply for EU-citizens from the mainland going to the UK. So the other way around. If not, than we have to remove the UK as soon as possible from the EU.

Oh; did i already tell something about racism in the UK. As this picture from Romford highlights:

Source: Romford Recorder

 

[Harbornite]

Oh; did i already tell something about racism in the UK. As this picture from Romford highlights:

Source: Romford Recorder

Maybe he dislikes immigrants because one of them botched his haircut?