Best maintained Northern train interior

[northwichcat]

Yesterday I made journeys which resulted in me travelling on 5 different classes of Northern train. Two of the train classes are ones I finish up travelling on quite regularly - 150s and 156s, others less regularly - 144s and 323s and one class I'm not sure I've actually travelled on before - 155s.

Without going looking through the trains for faults I noticed all the Sprinter classes had internal faults - the 150 had a broken toilet door and some lights weren't working, the 156 had no lighting in either carriage and the 155 had some broken seats which had been 'fixed' using gaffer tape.

However, the 144 (which wasn't the ePacer) had an interior which looked in reasonable condition with no obvious faults, as did the 323. I would say generally my experience of 144s and 323s is they have interiors in better condition than the 142s, 150s and 156s, even if the 156s have more comfortable seating. Is that how other forum members find Northern interiors?

 

[47802]

Surely the idea of best maintained interior on a Northern Train is a contradiction in terms, certainly all the diesel fleet is pretty poor in my view, the electrics generally a little better, the proposed refurbishments need to be a significant improvement.

I was waiting at Worksop last week for a Lincoln - Sheffield Train, a 144 turned up and frankly it was embarrassing from point of view of both the train and the interior compared to very nice looking EMT 158 which turned up for the Nottingham Service. Not only is the refurbishment long overdue but higher quality trains on such as Lincoln - Sheffield.

 

[Haydn1971]

The 144s that have had the new seats install are generally in pretty good condition for a passenger, the impression goes quickly downhill when you need the loo at the end of the day. I've been on some 150s where seats were missing, clearly vandalised and not replaced.


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[northwichcat]

I've been on some 150s where seats were missing, clearly vandalised and not replaced.

Some of the 150s with original interiors have had seats removed to allow a for a wheelchair area to be created and for some reason the ex-LM 150/2s had more seats squeezed in than some of the other 150s ever had.

I've noticed on some 150s they've drilled holes and added screws in to the back of the seat - presumably to keep the seat in one piece. There's also some 142s (both original interior and Merseyrail) where seats have been removed due to them wearing out and no longer being safe.
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I was waiting at Worksop last week for a Lincoln - Sheffield Train, a 144 turned up and frankly it was embarrassing from point of view of both the train and the interior compared to very nice looking EMT 158 which turned up for the Nottingham Service. Not only is the refurbishment long overdue but higher quality trains on such as Lincoln - Sheffield.

Lincoln-Sheffield, Sheffield-Leeds and Sheffield-Nottingham will all see brand new 195s which will start to be introduced in 2018. Once the 195s are in service it might be the EMT 158s that are more of an embarrassment.

 

[47802]

Lincoln-Sheffield, Sheffield-Leeds and Sheffield-Nottingham will all see brand new 195s which will start to be introduced in 2018. Once the 195s are in service it might be the EMT 158s that are more of an embarrassment.

Yes I'm well aware of that thank you I don't need your constant repeating of the Northern Franchise agreement, that doesn't alter the fact they are still a few years away or that Northern's diesel fleet should have had full comprehensive refurb years ago.

As for the 195's making EMT 158's look embarrassing I'm not so sure about that from my limited usage of EMT there interiors seem to be generally in reasonable condition, added to which their 158's received a comprehensive refurb and new seating, I am reminded of the stickers I saw a number of years ago on some EMT 156's which had just been cascaded from Northern apologising for the state of the Interior.

 

[thenorthern]

The Class 185s seem well maintained although they aren't maintained by Northern.

For their age I would say the Grand Central train used on the morning Leeds to Bradford train is the worst maintained as for its age the interior is getting a horrible grey colour and there seems to be a large amount of scratches.

 

[northwichcat]

Yes I'm well aware of that thank you I don't need your constant repeating of the Northern Franchise agreement, that doesn't alter the fact they are still a few years away or that Northern's diesel fleet should have had full comprehensive refurb years ago.

As for the 195's making EMT 158's look embarrassing I'm not so sure about that from my limited usage of EMT there interiors seem to be generally in reasonable condition, added to which their 158's received a comprehensive refurb and new seating, I am reminded of the stickers I saw a number of years ago on some EMT 156's which had just been cascaded from Northern apologising for the state of the Interior.

You said higher quality trains were needed for Lincoln to Sheffield opposed to saying the new 195s will be very welcome when they arrive which suggested you were unaware higher quality trains will be introduced on the route.

The EMT 158s aren't known to have brilliant air conditioning and some people dislike the style of seating they have.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've noticed on some 150s they've drilled holes and added screws in to the back of the seat - presumably to keep the seat in one piece. There's also some 142s (both original interior and Merseyrail) where seats have been removed due to them wearing out and no longer being safe.

And the way that has been done is cheap and nasty in itself - why not take the opportunity to respace the rest for increased comfort?

Once the 195s are in service it might be the EMT 158s that are more of an embarrassment.

For about 5 minutes. New stock will end up decrepit in 5 minutes if they don't look after it. It only takes a quick look at Southern Electrostars to see what happens if the TOC truly doesn't care.

Stagecoach has a culture of "image matters" so their 158s will remain nice just as their buses do - broken seats get fixed, moquette is matched up, damaged panels are replaced and sprayed the right colour. Arriva doesn't (nor does First), so their trains, like their buses, will end up filthy, decrepit and vandalised in no time.

It is a deep, ingrained attitude problem, not a problem with 142s.
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For their age I would say the Grand Central train used on the morning Leeds to Bradford train is the worst maintained as for its age the interior is getting a horrible grey colour and there seems to be a large amount of scratches.

Poor build quality is the main issue with the interiors of Coradias (175s too), though again the ATW ones are in a disgusting state because they are not properly looked after - again down to Arriva really not caring enough about their image. And who, I wonder, owns GC?

 

[thenorthern]

Class 333 has a nice interior and is probably the closest thing Northern has to a modern train interior.

Poor build quality is the main issue with the interiors of Coradias (175s too), though again the ATW ones are in a disgusting state because they are not properly looked after - again down to Arriva really not caring enough about their image. And who, I wonder, owns GC?

I would agree the plastic for the interior is going grey for some reason and given they were built at around the same time as the Class 390s at the same factory they haven't aged very well at all.

 

[CC 72100]

Poor build quality is the main issue with the interiors of Coradias (175s too), though again the ATW ones are in a disgusting state because they are not properly looked after - again down to Arriva really not caring enough about their image. And who, I wonder, owns GC?

I'm glad someone else mentioned the ATW 175s - I had my first one a few weeks back, and was shocked/surprised by the interior condition. The vestibules felt very tired, in the same way XC voyagers do, especially in terms of carpet. As others have said, scratched and bashes everywhere.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Class 333 has a nice interior and is probably the closest thing Northern has to a modern train interior.

I'd think the 195s are likely to be quite similar - the very high, arched roofline (almost classic-looking) is a very distinctively CAF thing.

I would agree the plastic for the interior is going grey for some reason and given they were built at around the same time as the Class 390s at the same factory they haven't aged very well at all.

There seems to be a massive difference in quality between the two - but also because fNW and now ATW have seriously neglected the interiors, and the passengers haven't helped by doing things like pulling out window rubbers (and the TOCs not helped by breeding more vandalism by not being bothered to immediately put them back in when they do).

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The 150 I had from Huddersfield to Batley yesterday afternoon was the least-worst one I've seen in the North since forever (other than the DDA modded unit). It was an ex-Birmingham /1 unit so still had the original seating, small toilet and so on but looked like it had had a deep-clean fairly recently. One of the issues with Northern's "lucky-dip" fleet is that not only that almost any unit may turn up, but also that it could be in any condition both in terms of wear and tear and cleanliness.

I disagree with those saying the 333s are the best of Northern's current fleet: the big chunky seats make the interiors seem far more claustrophobic than the thinner ones in 323s, and after a decade and a half of carrying West Yorkshire's most yuppy-ish commuters the backrests of the seats are caked with grease and gunk!

 

[northernchris]

Yesterday I made journeys which resulted in me travelling on 5 different classes of Northern train. Two of the train classes are ones I finish up travelling on quite regularly - 150s and 156s, others less regularly - 144s and 323s and one class I'm not sure I've actually travelled on before - 155s.

Without going looking through the trains for faults I noticed all the Sprinter classes had internal faults - the 150 had a broken toilet door and some lights weren't working, the 156 had no lighting in either carriage and the 155 had some broken seats which had been 'fixed' using gaffer tape.

However, the 144 (which wasn't the ePacer) had an interior which looked in reasonable condition with no obvious faults, as did the 323. I would say generally my experience of 144s and 323s is they have interiors in better condition than the 142s, 150s and 156s, even if the 156s have more comfortable seating. Is that how other forum members find Northern interiors?

The 155s always seem filthy, both inside and out. I remember under ATN the windows had a build up of grime but this was something that got addressed and has mostly been kept on top of

 

[prod_pep]

Having recently had two long rides on Class 175s, I can agree they are nothing spectacular both in terms of interior presentation and ride quality. Both examples I had (175008 and 175112) had worn ex-FNW panelwork, stained carpeting and suffered from rattles. I know this affects other trains as well, but the luggage racks are terrible on the 175s: well-filled baggage simply won't fit up there.

The overuse of purple lets down a lot of Northern interiors. The 319s and 322s are still relatively fresh from their interior work and do look decent, but the purple panels are depressing. The moquette they have used in these trains is reasonable and a lot better than the plainer type most of the DMU fleet has. Most of the Northern 142s and 150s I've used recently have been poorly presented internally and a damp stench seems to be commonplace.

 

[MatthewRead]

Having recently had two long rides on Class 175s, I can agree they are nothing spectacular both in terms of interior presentation and ride quality. Both examples I had (175008 and 175112) had worn ex-FNW panelwork, stained carpeting and suffered from rattles. I know this affects other trains as well, but the luggage racks are terrible on the 175s: well-filled baggage simply won't fit up there.

The overuse of purple lets down a lot of Northern interiors. The 319s and 322s are still relatively fresh from their interior work and do look decent, but the purple panels are depressing. The moquette they have used in these trains is reasonable and a lot better than the plainer type most of the DMU fleet has. Most of the Northern 142s and 150s I've used recently have been poorly presented internally and a damp stench seems to be commonplace.

Don't you mean the 321's the 322's still have their original First ScotRail inteior.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes, the interior of the 'Bins' (class 321, geddit ?) looked very smart when I last used them. Similarly, I've found the refreshed 156's to be very pleasant.

 

[prod_pep]

Don't you mean the 321's the 322's still have their original First ScotRail inteior.

No. 322481 has an interior similar to the 319s (same moquette and dark purple vestibule partitions). Can't speak for the other 322s as this is the only one I rode but it certainly didn't have an 'original' First ScotRail interior.

 

[rg177]

The 322s were refurbished this year and all have a similar interior to the 319 in terms of moquette.

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[Rail Blues]

Asking 'what's the best preserved Northern interior?' Is a bit like asking who's the cleverest Kardashian or who's the most handsome, Wayne Rooney or Peter Beardsley?

 

[387star]

have the ex fnw 150s had new flooring?

three years ago I travelled from manchester to disley and noticed the lino bubbling up

 

[robbeech]

Surely the idea of best maintained interior on a Northern Train is a contradiction in terms, certainly all the diesel fleet is pretty poor in my view, the electrics generally a little better, the proposed refurbishments need to be a significant improvement.

I was waiting at Worksop last week for a Lincoln - Sheffield Train, a 144 turned up and frankly it was embarrassing from point of view of both the train and the interior compared to very nice looking EMT 158 which turned up for the Nottingham Service. Not only is the refurbishment long overdue but higher quality trains on such as Lincoln - Sheffield.

Was this at a weekend? EMT at least used to have a 158 on loan from SWT that often did the Nottingham to Worksop runs at the weekend, that was a particularly nice 158. Or was it a 159...

 

[Mordac]

Was this at a weekend? EMT at least used to have a 158 on loan from SWT that often did the Nottingham to Worksop runs at the weekend, that was a particularly nice 158. Or was it a 159...

That's 158889, and they still have it. Only one of theirs with a first class section, which I guess goes declassified?

 

[47802]

Was this at a weekend? EMT at least used to have a 158 on loan from SWT that often did the Nottingham to Worksop runs at the weekend, that was a particularly nice 158. Or was it a 159...

No it was a Monday evening, and of course even if a Northern 158 had turned up instead of a Railbus the EMT 158 would still have been a lot better.

The other question for Northern is even when the new and refurbished trains arrive are they going to keep them in good condition?

 

[TrainfanBen]

Surely the idea of best maintained interior on a Northern Train is a contradiction in terms, certainly all the diesel fleet is pretty poor in my view

The seats on Northerns 158's are the best of any train. Thick cushioning giving proper support. I'm surely not the only fan, am I?

 

[northwichcat]

The seats on Northerns 158's are the best of any train. Thick cushioning giving proper support. I'm surely not the only fan, am I?

Don't know as they are never used on routes I normally used and when I occasionally use a route which does see some 158s I finish up getting something like a 144 instead.

 

[superkev]

The seats on Northerns 158's are the best of any train. Thick cushioning giving proper support. I'm surely not the only fan, am I?

Thick seat backs equals less leg room. I remember when Trans Pennine fitted thicker ones which became very cramped.
To me modern trains seem to be designed by someone with no legs.
It will be interesting to see how the redecorated 155 is when it returns from Kilmarnock as with around 80 seats packed in I found them particularly cramped.
K

 

[47802]

Thick seat backs equals less leg room. I remember when Trans Pennine fitted thicker ones which became very cramped.
To me modern trains seem to be designed by someone with no legs.
It will be interesting to see how the redecorated 155 is when it returns from Kilmarnock as with around 80 seats packed in I found them particularly cramped.
K

Exactly the same most likely except hopefully at least look a little better. 155's are bloody awful full stop, very cramped seating and the noisiest of all sprinters, I'm a bit surprised they didn't take the opportunity to bin them in the new franchise but maybe that's down to the WYPTE funding them in the first place, hopefully we will get them off the main Calder Valley services when the new trains and 170's arrive, I guess they are good enough for Huddersfield via Bradford.

 

[Failed Unit]

The 150 I had from Huddersfield to Batley yesterday afternoon was the least-worst one I've seen in the North since forever (other than the DDA modded unit). It was an ex-Birmingham /1 unit so still had the original seating, small toilet and so on but looked like it had had a deep-clean fairly recently. One of the issues with Northern's "lucky-dip" fleet is that not only that almost any unit may turn up, but also that it could be in any condition both in terms of wear and tear and cleanliness.

I disagree with those saying the 333s are the best of Northern's current fleet: the big chunky seats make the interiors seem far more claustrophobic than the thinner ones in 323s, and after a decade and a half of carrying West Yorkshire's most yuppy-ish commuters the backrests of the seats are caked with grease and gunk!

On the pedantic front, none of the 150/1s have thier original interior. The Birmingham ones were refurbished in the early 1990s with more seats put in. The closest thing I think still on the network to the original 150/1 interior is the class 318s in Scotland (in terms of seat type), but it was 3+2 face seating as built.

The 150/2 where "ashbourne" as built.

 

[northwichcat]

Exactly the same most likely except hopefully at least look a little better. 155's are bloody awful full stop, very cramped seating and the noisiest of all sprinters, I'm a bit surprised they didn't take the opportunity to bin them in the new franchise but maybe that's down to the WYPTE funding them in the first place, hopefully we will get them off the main Calder Valley services when the new trains and 170's arrive, I guess they are good enough for Huddersfield via Bradford.

I've noticed the leg room is inconsistent between seats on the 155s, probably because they tried to cram in as many seats as possible.

All Metro funding arrangements for DMUs have expired but the 333 arrangements remain in place until mid-2020.

 

[talltim]

That's 158889, and they still have it. Only one of theirs with a first class section, which I guess goes declassified?

Yup https://1drv.ms/i/s!AhBKiUccWbLegP9eg-ICu97QwcIsAQ
First time I'de seen this unit and I catch the Norwich-Liverpool services about 5 times a week.