HS2 in the press

[swt_passenger]

DfT release of speech confirming the news mentioned in the previous post is here:

Conclusion
But in conclusion.
We’re not backing away from HS2.
The case is as strong as ever.
We need this railway.
And if we’re going to build it, let’s make it state-of-the-art, fit for the decades of growth ahead.
So that in 2033, we no longer have a rail network with a Victorian heart, but a network with an Elizabethan heart, able to deliver everything we expect of a 21st century transport system.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/we-will-build-hs2

 

[edwin_m]

But "an Elizabethan Heart" could refer to Crossrail....

 

[D365]

But "an Elizabethan Heart" could refer to Crossrail....

Or Crossrail II?

 

[matacaster]

But "an Elizabethan Heart" could refer to Crossrail....

....or a stagecoach??

 

[33Hz]

http://coventryobserver.co.uk/news/exclusive-plan-return-trams-coventry-streets-link-hs2/

Plan to return trams to Coventry streets to link to HS2

 

[D365]

http://coventryobserver.co.uk/news/exclusive-plan-return-trams-coventry-streets-link-hs2/

Plan to return trams to Coventry streets to link to HS2

All I can say is:

"Good luck".

 

[HSTEd]

Well dropping a tram system into each of these towns feeling upset about HS2 damaging their conventional train service would be a cheap way of buying them off.
So snap to it.

 

[TheDavibob]

Isn't the plan to drag the metro to the airport/the interchange station anyway? Which could happily run through the university and into Coventry. That this idea seems disjoint from existing metro ideas seems a little silly.

 

[D365]

Well dropping a tram system into each of these towns feeling upset about HS2 damaging their conventional train service would be a cheap way of buying them off.

Since the recent farces that have been taking place with new-build tram lines (think Edinburgh and Sheffield/Rotherham in particular), I don't think that trams are a guarantee of anything.

 

[WatcherZero]

Story in the Times this week picked up by a couple of other papers, but apparently the Government is giving serious thought to including the first two years or so of HS2 operation within the WCML franchise before it will become a separate vertically integrated franchise.

This has a few advantages, compensating the WCML operator for the huge construction disruption it will suffer during the next franchise, providing a support network within an existing franchise to help with start up recruitment/service management and providing a small grace period from compensation so no early price wars. And giving some flexibility for late running construction. The following WCML franchise would essentially be a totally different beast and they want to collect side by side usage data of both networks to decide how to structure the future WCML.

On the other hand some in the Dft don't like the competition implications even briefly of the same operator running both services to Birmingham and the possibility of Virgin winning it and having a monopoly on Intercity travel between London and the North.

 

[Deerfold]

On the other hand some in the Dft don't like the competition implications even briefly of the same operator running both services to Birmingham and the possibility of Virgin winning it and having a monopoly on Intercity travel between London and the North.

Given the current situation with Stagecoach's interests in both Virgin rail companies and EMT, I'm not sure anyone could have more of a monopoly.

 

[The Planner]

This has a few advantages, compensating the WCML operator for the huge construction disruption it will suffer during the next franchise.

Schedule 4 compensation is in place to cover the vast majority of that.

 

[edwin_m]

Considering the amount of disruption at Euston, it would seem sensible to put West Coast and LM onto management contracts similar to what GTR is on at present. These could also accommodate the bedding in period of HS2 phase 1 and provide some baseline ridership data for subsequent franchises to bid against. It also avoids the money-go-round of DfT via HS2 making operator compensation payments that then come back to DfT as premium or reduced subsidy.

 

[WatcherZero]

Referring not to the financial side of Schedule 4 but to the human and logistical side. There is a lot of potential for management headaches, passenger disruption and reputational damage that might make it an unattractive prospect without more generous financial incentive to cover that risk and you can believe the bid teams will have assessed and quantified the risk.

For example look at GTR, they are receiving over half of all Schedule 4 payments in the country because of construction impacts and suffering huge reputational damage.

 

[The Ham]

Given the split of the current LM franchise to West Coast and West Midlands local services, there could be a third outcome.

Split the services so that any that only run on the WCML are run by the equivalent of LM and those that use HS2 are run by the successor of Virgin West Coast.

That way there is still a level of competition, but there's not so much fighting over paths into London.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Or compete with the car, air and coach. On rail competition is squabbling over a few passengers here and there. There are thousands upon thousands in cars. The railway needs to work as one to get them out of those cars.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Senex]

There are thousands upon thousands in cars. The railway needs to work as one to get them out of those cars.

And it won't do that by squashing more people into smaller amounts of personal space in existing trains and buying new ones with no knee-room, not enough shoulder-space, poor views out of the windows, etc. Even a low-end-of-the-market tends now to offer more comfort than standard-class rail. (Though standard-class rail is still far, far better than any bus!)

 

[AM9]

And it won't do that by squashing more people into smaller amounts of personal space in existing trains and buying new ones with no knee-room, not enough shoulder-space, poor views out of the windows, etc. Even a low-end-of-the-market tends now to offer more comfort than standard-class rail. (Though standard-class rail is still far, far better than any bus!)

Gilding the lily on commodity trains just puts the price up. Ever increasing road traffic congestion and declining air quality plus the return to higher oil prices will be the best sales driver for rail travel, - at least passengers will get there.

 

[WatcherZero]

Higgins seems to have been busy over the weekend, 3 separate locally themed interviews with the Liverpool Echo, Northern Echo and Newcastle Chronicle published this morning and probably more. Liverpool echo Higgins is promising fast Liverpool-Manchester link and true HS line. Newcastle paper hes promising HS2 will eventually be extended to Newcastle and on to Scotland, Northern Echo its talking about employment zones and job creation in Darlington, Tees Valley and York creating tens of thousands of new jobs and 1,500 new homes.

One would almost suspect this was a concerted media effort to prepare for something.....

Anyway first taster of this may be:

Changing Britain: HS2 Taking Root
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changing-britain-hs2-taking-root

 

[Camden]

"Promising" seems a bit of a creative interpretation of what was said.

A concerted media effort to prepare for announcing a HS2 route which is barely untouched, and damaging in all sorts of ways, and despite being widely discredited, maybe?

Of course it benefits everyone haha! Especially those people in Liverpool..... Despite what they say....

 

[NSEFAN]

A concerted media effort to prepare for announcing a HS2 route which is barely untouched, and damaging in all sorts of ways, and despite being widely discredited, maybe?

Discreted by whom?

 

[dggar]

Discreted by whom?

It doesn't matter by whom,
you just need to create the idea that it has been discredited

Be interesting to to see if a list of discreditors is posted.

 

[urbophile]

The Liverpool Echo today suggested that HS2 (or a branch of it) might run directly to a new station in Liverpool. Is that a media fantasy or are there suggestions for a route and the location of the station? I can't see how anywhere other than Lime Street would be suitable.

 

[WatcherZero]

Transport for the North has done a feasibility study which has presented options which have a good financial case. Further work would need to be done to narrow down the options but Higgins was talking of it being built next door to Lime Street. A cheaper option may be to have it partly takeover Lime Street and move some of the existing trains elsewhere..

 

[urbophile]

Higgins was talking of it being built next door to Lime Street.

If it means demolishing those hideous new student flats, bring it on! And while they are about it, they could cancel Chairman Joe's bland redevelopment of the street itself and build a splendid new station flanked by the two baroque pubs.

 

[work-traveller]

Discreted by whom?

By those who have an interest in it not happening, which mostly boils down to those who live on or next to the route. Understandable position to take of course, but this doesn't actually mean it's discredited.

 

[6Gman]

The Liverpool Echo today suggested that HS2 (or a branch of it) might run directly to a new station in Liverpool. Is that a media fantasy or are there suggestions for a route and the location of the station? I can't see how anywhere other than Lime Street would be suitable.

There has been some talk of a new station basically on the former Exchange site.

But another Liverpool station may not be an ideal solution.

 

[WatcherZero]

Liverpool Exchange may be be useful if you wanted to go the city centre but would be useless to interchange with services to the rest of the region, the site also faces North and the land is just a tad too small unless you moved Leeds Street.

 

[HSTEd]

Facing north is not a major issue really, even at 250kph you eat over 4km every minute. It's not far to HS2 at Wigan

 

[WatcherZero]

You would have to loop around and enter the city from the north, remember it would have to provide significant time saving against the Crewe route to be a viable investment, your also going in the opposite direction to entering Manchester from the south. At best a slow 180 hairpin turn at Walton would be earliest you could start heading south again. Would look like the stupid blip approaching Southport only 3 times the size and force a HS train to drop right down to 30-50 at the edge of Liverpool to navigate the curvature. Thats if they can overcome the complaints of loss of the inner city green space that former alignment now exists as.

You couldnt tunnel the approach as the merseyrail tunnel is cut and covered just below the former station site.