December 2016 Timetable changes

[rg177]

Oh right. I just picked two days out at random that I deemed to be normal days to me.

I know what you mean. That week leading up to Christmas has quite a few alterations. My heart almost sank when I thought they were curtailing the 06:02 Newcastle to Liverpool at Leeds before realising it was a temporary alteration for that week.

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[Starmill]

05:08 Perth to Inverness to balance the earlier Inverness starter.

I wonder if this has been done to give a little more security to those travelling from Kingussie, Aviemore and Carrbridge to Inverness who wish to arrive before 1027? The reliability of the Sleeper for that must be awful. I wonder if it will continue to pick up daytime passengers? Very sensible that they have finally decided a Perth - Inverness service that arrives prior to 1027 is neccesary.

I now see that we have a 0533 Newcastle to Liverpool TPE that runs via Warrington from December. I'm sure this used to start in Middlesbrough but it's more than welcome as far as I'm concerned.

This service at present originates at York. The 0555 Middlesbrough to Manchester Airport is close behind. The train in this path would usually start at Scarborough, but the first two from there (0630 and 0700) are 1Pxx to Manchester Airport.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Seems the Sleeper retains the northbound Carrbridge call that was introduced a while ago when the morning commuter service was cut *

(* - I think that's the reason!)

 

[bunnahabhain]

Radcliffe (Notts) station is gaining a handful of calls in addition to the current level of service which will provide 16 services a day, 8 in each direction. Notably this now gives the opportunity to head East from Radcliffe (Notts) before the current 0856 departure.

The additional services are:
2S05 06.51 Nottingham to Skegness
2S06 10.09 Skegness to Nottingham
2S21 14.55 Nottingham to Skegness
2S16 15.10 Skegness to Nottingham
2S28 21.07 Skegness to Nottingham

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Another change as mentioned in the latest Today's Railways, from December Larkhall services will begin to call at Bridgeton and Dalmarnock, giving a blanket 6tph service at all stations on the low level line through Glasgow Central.

 

[darloscott]

It looks like the Grand Central 180 on loan to Northern has been removed - the 0636 Victoria to Leeds has been doubled as it now appears to split on arrival at Leeds to form the 0818 to Morecambe and 0826 back to Victoria

 

[MidnightFlyer]

PDFs are now up for CrossCountry and TfL Rail (which interestingly have differing end dates, 20 and 13 May 2017 respectively).

Of note for CrossCountry is the fact that Sunday Manchester to Bristol trains now also serve Stockport and Stafford (having previously been Stoke and Wolves only), and the fact that the physical timetables have been combined into just two books, one for traditional XC routes and one for the former Central Trains services.

TfL Rail's shows buses throughout the timetables (weekdays included) between Brentwood and Shenfield, presumably in connection with the ongoing CrossRail works at the latter.

 

[43074]

...and the fact that the physical timetables have been combined into just two books, one for traditional XC routes and one for the former Central Trains services.

The annoying thing about this is that the actual timetables have been merged into the same table - rather than having separate tables for both the Birmingham to Stansted & Nottingham to Cardiff routes in the same booklet they are shown as a single route in the same table, when clearly as far as most customers are concerned they are completely separate - bar the 07:10 Gloucester to Stansted Airport SX & 19:45 Cardiff to Leicester SuO which can be adequately covered with appropriate footnotes - so there is no point in merging the tables. There is also no single table covering the Derby - Birmingham - Cheltenham core, yet Birmingham to Leicester and half of the Birmingham to Derby service are shown on the same table! Madness.

On the other hand it makes sense IMO for the whole North East/North West - South West/South Coast timetables to be shown because they interwork with each other to a much greater extent than the ex Central routes, on an hourly basis throughout the day, apart from the fact that Aberdeen to Edinburgh and Plymouth to Penzance get their own tables!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The annoying thing about this is that the actual timetables have been merged into the same table - rather than having separate tables for both the Birmingham to Stansted & Nottingham to Cardiff routes in the same booklet they are shown as a single route in the same table, when clearly as far as most customers are concerned they are completely separate - bar the 07:10 Gloucester to Stansted Airport SX & 19:45 Cardiff to Leicester SuO which can be adequately covered with appropriate footnotes - so there is no point in merging the tables. There is also no single table covering the Derby - Birmingham - Cheltenham core, yet Birmingham to Leicester and half of the Birmingham to Derby service are shown on the same table! Madness.

On the other hand it makes sense IMO for the whole North East/North West - South West/South Coast timetables to be shown because they interwork with each other to a much greater extent than the ex Central routes, on an hourly basis throughout the day, apart from the fact that Aberdeen to Edinburgh and Plymouth to Penzance get their own tables!

Indeed, the current Nottingham-Cardiff timetable lists everything between Derby and Bristol too. I remember at the start of the franchise each leg of the 'X' of the traditional CrossCountry network had its own timetable, this was tweaked a few years ago so that only the northern half of the network has a composite, anyone who needed the Reading or Taunton southwards lines required both of the other timetables to get the composite service for their area.

I agree that the ex-Central Trains routes would be better split into two but in one book, and the new traditional network timetable is OK, I just don't understand why the likes of Dawlish and Teignmouth are shown when Aberdeen and Penzance etc are exclusively omitted entirely and described by footnotes. I suppose it saves on the footnotes required to include them when trains do call at Dawlish and Teignmouth, and keeps Aberdeen and Penzance in their own little timetables, it just does look a bit odd.

 

[MatthewRead]

Are the GWR 180's going to get weekend diagrams I am sure I've seen photos in magazines that taken on Saturdays some I'm just wondering.

 

[swt_passenger]

Are the GWR 180's going to get weekend diagrams I am sure I've seen photos in magazines that taken on Saturdays some I'm just wondering.

With them being off lease with GWR from December, and then 4 of them being temporarily loaned back from their new operator GC, (according to the 2015 franchise agreement); then I'd have thought extra weekend diagrams would be incredibly unlikely with the number available having reduced.

 

[70014IronDuke]

05:08 Perth to Inverness to balance the earlier Inverness starter.

It's rather early, but I expect it will benefit some folks. EXCEPT they don't stop it at Newtonmore.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G80490/2016/12/12/advanced

It stops at eg Dunkeld and B at the un-Godly hour of 05.25, and even Dalwhinnie at 06.13 - but not Newtonmore. Weird. i know Newtonmore is not far from Kingussie, but I'd bet it would win more passengers than Dalwhinnie, which gets about 1.5 pax a day on average.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Radcliffe (Notts) station is gaining a handful of calls in addition to the current level of service which will provide 16 services a day, 8 in each direction. Notably this now gives the opportunity to head East from Radcliffe (Notts) before the current 0856 departure.

The additional services are:
2S05 06.51 Nottingham to Skegness
2S06 10.09 Skegness to Nottingham
2S21 14.55 Nottingham to Skegness
2S16 15.10 Skegness to Nottingham
2S28 21.07 Skegness to Nottingham

i've often thought Radcliffe deserves a better service. That's about 35% more trains. I hope it drives usage up.

 

[jimm]

Are the GWR 180's going to get weekend diagrams I am sure I've seen photos in magazines that taken on Saturdays some I'm just wondering.

No. With one of the GWR sets going to Grand Central from December, there are going to be fewer weekday 180 duties from December, as I think there will only be three sets diagrammed. Turbos will return on a number of London-Oxford services, with an HST replacing a 180 on an off-peak London-Great Malvern and return working.

180s are occasionally seen on weekend services on the Cotswold Line if GWR is short of an HST but that's the only reason they have ever been let out of the depot at weekends since 2012.

 

[mikestone1952]

It looks like the Grand Central 180 on loan to Northern has been removed - the 0636 Victoria to Leeds has been doubled as it now appears to split on arrival at Leeds to form the 0818 to Morecambe and 0826 back to Victoria

;
Now in RTT but starting back from Halifax at 07.28.

 

[xtradj]

Are there any extra virgin west coast services/London midland now that the crossover at norton bridge is complete?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Are there any extra virgin west coast services/London midland now that the crossover at norton bridge is complete?

I don't think so, but the Bournemouth-Manchester is 8 minutes quicker reaching Stoke onwards with better pathing (not on RTT yet, but it's in the XC PDF).
No change to Bristol-Manchester or the southbounds.

I can't see any timing improvements on the main line.

 

[dk1]

Several Norwich to Great Yarmouth services are timed to depart 2min earlier on weekdays. For example the 16:40/18:06/20:40 will depart 16:38/18:04/20:38. Not sure if this is due to being formed by LHCS as the 68s are due to finish in December unless the 37s are moving to that diagram in the afternoons. The short hauled sets are notorious for losing a little time to Brundall due to the 20mph PSR for non Sprinter units over Oak Lane bridge near Postwick.

 

[mikestone1952]

I don't think so, but the Bournemouth-Manchester is 8 minutes quicker reaching Stoke onwards with better pathing (not on RTT yet, but it's in the XC PDF).
No change to Bristol-Manchester or the southbounds.

I can't see any timing improvements on the main line.

;
The retimings to the Bournemouth-Manchester trains have been in RTT since the timetable first appeared, arriving Picc at xx.26 rather than xx.35. You had me wondering if VT had objected to the deceleration of their trains to follow - xx.20 ex Euston used to be xx.24 WTT, xx.28 NRT, but are now xx.28 WTT and NRT, but this doesn't appear to be the case.
;
Virgin seem to have missed a trick here - the same happened last year with the additional calls where the retimed trains also lost their adjusted public arrivals. I would have thought eliminating them all might have been a worthwhile publicity move.

 

[darloscott]

;
Now in RTT but starting back from Halifax at 07.28.

Cheers! Did think it was a little strange for it to be not there.
Will give a decent amount of capacity on a morning from the Calder Valley

Arrivals at Leeds 0730-0900 will be

2E33 0746 Man Victoria (158 3 car)
2W60 0758 Hudds via Brighouse (142+158)
2T99 0807 Halifax (GC 180)
2E36 0813 Man Victoria (150+158)
1B09 0822 Preston (158 3 car)
2E37 0844 Man Victoria (158 3 car)
2W64 0856 Hudds via Brighouse (144+144/3)

 

[Class 170101]

According to RTT 2T99 uses 6A going out as 5T99 after 2E35 (shown below as 2E36) arrives on 6C forming 2H08 and 2U20 going out. I assume Platform 6 fits this length of train.

 

[30907]

According to RTT 2T99 uses 6A going out as 5T99 after 2E35 (shown below as 2E36) arrives on 6C forming 2H08 and 2U20 going out. I assume Platform 6 fits this length of train.

Should do as it will take a full HST or Mk4 set

 

[RailAleFan]

This might be a little rough around the edges but I made a tool to compare current / future timetable side-by-side which makes it easy to visualise changes from a station perspective...

https://live-departures.info/rail/timetable-comparison/

 

[lejog]

;
Now in RTT but starting back from Halifax at 07.28.

That should be a great improvement, I've heard reports of overcrowding between Halifax and Bradford as a result of running the shortened trains. It seems that Arriva have managed to arrange a suitable new path for the unit from Crofton to Halifax (5G99) rather than attaching it to the earlier train to Bradford (5A70).

 

[MK Tom]

This might be a little rough around the edges but I made a tool to compare current / future timetable side-by-side which makes it easy to visualise changes from a station perspective...

https://live-departures.info/rail/timetable-comparison/

This is marvelous! Nice work!

 

[markydh]

So the Newcastle - Man Airport trains are going to be 2-hourly for the time being.

 

[ajdunlop]

What new stock allows the extension to York of the man Airport services every other hour?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So the Newcastle - Man Airport trains are going to be 2-hourly for the time being.

And in those hours there will be 6tph York-Newcastle (5 within 30 minutes).
Overserved I think, when capacity is so short elsewhere.

 

[mikestone1952]

What new stock allows the extension to York of the man Airport services every other hour?

.
As I have already posted the extensions of Manchester-York services does not require any extra stock. Three sets currently stand over at York between peak hour six-car workings, and one of those covers the three daytime workings, swopping at Newcastle with a Liverpool train, while the fourth is an earlier start and later finish.

 

[rg177]

And in those hours there will be 6tph York-Newcastle (5 within 30 minutes).
Overserved I think, when capacity is so short elsewhere.

As someone who regularly uses Newcastle to York, the choice in operators normally serves to keep prices competitive (XC for instance are reasonable value on this flow, compared to others)

Plus, it's just one of those things. If you pull any one of those services, Newcastle loses a service to Liverpool, Manchester Airport, Birmingham, Reading, Plymouth, London etc. It just happens to be a flow as part of a longer distance network.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

More from East Coast:

[PR gibber]

Full additional services

Weekdays

22.57 London King’s Cross to York calling at Peterborough, Grantham, Newark North Gate and Doncaster

Fridays only

22.01 Edinburgh Waverley to Newcastle calling at Dunbar, Berwick-upon-Tweed, Alnmouth and Morpeth

Saturdays

05.30 Leeds to London King’s Cross calling at Wakefield Westgate, Doncaster, Newark North Gate, Grantham and Peterborough

08.33 London King’s Cross to Leeds calling at Grantham, Retford, Doncaster and Wakefield Westgate

11.40 Leeds to London King’s Cross calling at Wakefield Westgate and Doncaster

12.33 London King’s Cross to Leeds calling at Peterborough, Retford, Doncaster and Wakefield Westgate

15.33 London King’s Cross to Leeds calling at Stevenage, Peterborough, Newark North Gate and Wakefield Westgate

15.40 Leeds to London King’s Cross calling at Wakefield Westgate, Doncaster and Newark North Gate

19.40 Leeds to London King’s Cross calling at Wakefield Westgate, Doncaster, Newark North Gate and Peterborough

Sundays

08.43 Leeds to London King’s Cross calling at Wakefield Westgate, Doncaster and Peterborough

08:45 London King’s Cross to Edinburgh Waverley calling at York, Darlington, Durham, Newcastle and Morpeth

11.20 Edinburgh Waverley to London King’s Cross calling at Morpeth, Newcastle, Durham, Darlington and York

12.33 London King’s Cross to Leeds calling at Stevenage, Grantham, Doncaster and Wakefield Westgate

14.47 Edinburgh Waverley to London King’s Cross calling at Berwick-upon-Tweed, Newcastle, Durham, Darlington, York, Newark North Gate and Peterborough

21.05 London King’s Cross to Leeds calling at Peterborough, Newark North Gate, Doncaster and Wakefield Westgate

22.04 London King’s Cross to Doncaster calling at Peterborough, Grantham and Newark North Gate

(Various articles on it here https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/about/media-room#/ - The Leeds one mentions the introduction of a full half-hourly Saturday service on that route from May next year.)