Class 373 Eurostar withdrawals

[fgwrich]

Look, just understand. These trains are old, maintenance heavy, power hungry and clapped out. Twenty two years of 300Kph takes it out of a train. No-one else would want them for that reason.

Not only that, but where the hell would anyone have the space to store the things for 10 years (minimum) and how worthwhile would that be? There's nowhere left in the UK that's secure enough and you'd hardly want to store a train reportedly suffering from corrosion in the outside?

 

[Phil.]

Not only that, but where the hell would anyone have the space to store the things for 10 years (minimum) and how worthwhile would that be? There's nowhere left in the UK that's secure enough and you'd hardly want to store a train reportedly suffering from corrosion in the outside?

Believe me, it's not reportedly.

Edit: I've just read reportedly for "reputedly". I really must get my old eyes re-tested.

 

[tellytype]

Or a drone, as we are in the modern era!

This, I'm sure we can manage...

 

[59CosG95]

This, I'm sure we can manage...

Unless this chap blasts it out the sky with a conveniently placed shotgun by his side...

 

[RobShipway]

No, you can't. To compare the two is like comparing chalk and cheese.

Why is it chalk and cheese? Is it just because the MK3 coaches can go anywhere for the most part on Network rail and where built in the UK, whereas the class 373 coaches where built in France so they are bound to be no good.

If the class 373 coaches where to be used in the UK, there is less that needs to be done to them for to be useable after 2020 for the disability act than there is with the slam door MK3 coaches, which quite literally need to be rebuilt from the shell as has been mentioned in many threads.

The only Mk3 coaches that would need less work, is the class 442 coaches as the air operated sliding doors I believe can be used within the 2020 disability act, but passage ways within any coach and access to it need to be sorted out that would be used or the disabled.

 

[najaB]

Why is it chalk and cheese? Is it just because the MK3 coaches can go anywhere for the most part on Network rail and where built in the UK, whereas the class 373 coaches where built in France so they are bound to be no good.

Because they only have half the doors of a Mk3 - they were primarily intended for non-stop terminal to terminal services where excessive dwell time isn't a factor. And, yes. The Mk3 is a go-anywhere design as compared to the 373 coaches.

 

[tellytype]

Unless this chap blasts it out the sky with a conveniently placed shotgun by his side...

Hahaha good ole Father Ted. I'm sure DJI are working on a laser cannon add on!

In all seriousness though, a unmanned overflight of the site could likely be achieved perfectly within the law. Quite whether the sight would be interesting or just a pile of white, yellow & grey shreds is another matter.

 

[RobShipway]

Because they only have half the doors of a Mk3 - they were primarily intended for non-stop terminal to terminal services where excessive dwell time isn't a factor. And, yes. The Mk3 is a go-anywhere design as compared to the 373 coaches.

But then you can say the same about the MK3 coaches which were designed in the 1970's for inter city train usage i.e. City station to City station, hence why the doors are at the end of the carriages which to me is no different than the class 373 coaches.

Yes, possibly because of the way the doors open on the class 373 coaches the dwell time would be longer, but you could also say that if you had an express version of say the Electrostar, but doors remained as they are on the class 377/387 sets that the dwell time would be even less than the Mk3's coaches.

 

[Hophead]

The things are almost 400 metres in length, so too long for pretty much any route on on the network; they contain obsolete electronic equipment designed in the late 1980s; they're encumbered with tunnel safety equipment that's of no interest to any mainland operator. The simple fact is that every train operator who is interested in operating class 373s, whether along HS1 or elsewhere, is already doing so.

 

[Emblematic]

If there really was a practical alternative use for these sets, then the NoL fleet would have been brought into full use rather than spending their majority of their life in storage. The sets being retired are now in need of a heavy mid-life rebuild, and for all but a handful the economics of that work doesn't stack up against the increased capacity and decreased operating costs of a new train.

 

[Andy-mc]

"373's are to old and maintenance heavy" meanwhile commuters still enjoy travels on HST's and networkers from the 70's and 80's and freight companies are using 37, 20's, 57's and wagons which look like they came from the industrial revolution

I must admit though they probably aren't fit for todays railway and operators like shiny new things if they can get their hands on them

 

[TRAX]

You are comparing commuter and regional train utilisation with high speed train utilisation...

 

[D365]

You are comparing commuter and regional train utilisation with high speed train utilisation...

No point bothering. As I've learnt on this forum recently; the engineer is always wrong.

 

[TheEdge]

But then you can say the same about the MK3 coaches which were designed in the 1970's for inter city train usage i.e. City station to City station, hence why the doors are at the end of the carriages which to me is no different than the class 373 coaches.

Not quite sure of the logic you are using. The Mk3 is just a normal hauled coach that can be marshaled in many ways. They've got two doors on each side as opposed to the 373s that have one each side only. How they operate is linked to the loco hauling them, not the coach. You could do as Anglia has and stick 2 or 3 behind a loco and call it a stopping train trundling about at 60mph or whack a 67 on a set and run them at 125mph.

A 373 is a fixed (?) enourmous formation which is designed for nothing more than running long distance at high speed and is practically useless for everything else.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

"373's are to old and maintenance heavy" meanwhile commuters still enjoy travels on HST's

The vast majority of which will be following the 373s to Booths in a few years...

networkers from the 70's and 80's

Erm, the Networker family is from the early '90s....

and freight companies are using 37, 20's, 57's and wagons which look like they came from the industrial revolution

37s and 20s. There is not a huge amount of them about and the majority of them are with DRS and used for spot hire and test trains. As for the 57s there are an almost total rebuild from the early 00s.

 

[fgwrich]

The things are almost 400 metres in length, so too long for pretty much any route on on the network; they contain obsolete electronic equipment designed in the late 1980s; they're encumbered with tunnel safety equipment that's of no interest to any mainland operator. The simple fact is that every train operator who is interested in operating class 373s, whether along HS1 or elsewhere, is already doing so.

This. And... Are the 373 sets designed to UK height or European. I.e, door / platform height?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Are the 373 sets designed to UK height or European. I.e, door / platform height?

They have retractable steps in order to be able to use both types of platforms.

 

[yorkie]

But then you can say the same about the MK3 coaches which were designed in the 1970's for inter city train usage i.e. City station to City station, hence why the doors are at the end of the carriages which to me is no different than the class 373 coaches.

They clearly are different.

Why is it chalk and cheese?.

See TheEdge's post above.

You can though pretty much say the same for the Mk3 or HST Mk3 coaches that are twice their age

Not the same

yet money is going to be spent on them to have sliding doors at the ends similar to the class 442 MK3's rather than slam door's at the ends.

Because that's actually viable, unlike keeping enormous length Eurostar stock.

 

[childwallblues]

I had read somewhere that all scrapping would be done at EMR Kingsbury and this included the 33xx NOL sets which are currently stored in France.

 

[TheEdge]

I had read somewhere that all scrapping would be done at EMR Kingsbury and this included the 33xx NOL sets which are currently stored in France.

I thought all the 373s owned by SNCF had already been scrapped?

 

[59CosG95]

I thought all the 373s owned by SNCF had already been scrapped?

No-one really knows for certain. SNCF like to do their TGV scrapping in almost complete secrecy.

 

[childwallblues]

I thought all the 373s owned by SNCF had already been scrapped?

The NOL sets were british weren't they?

 

[59CosG95]

The NOL sets were british weren't they?

Yes, and were briefly used on the GNER "White Rose" services. All the sets, bar 3308, then went to SNCF for use in Northern France.

Here's a couple of pics from elsewhere on the forum I found about Eurostars in France...http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2593650&postcount=254

 

[43096]

Why is it chalk and cheese? Is it just because the MK3 coaches can go anywhere for the most part on Network rail and where built in the UK, whereas the class 373 coaches where built in France so they are bound to be no good.

Suggest you go and do some research on the 373s and where vehicles were built before posting such utter nonsense.

 

[TRAX]

No-one really knows for certain. SNCF like to do their TGV scrapping in almost complete secrecy.

Of the 16 SNCF-owned 373s, only 3 have been withdrawn (3203/3204, 3225/3226, 3227/3228). The extra power car, 373999, is still there.

 

[59CosG95]

Of the 16 SNCF-owned 373s, only 3 have been withdrawn (3203/3204, 3225/3226, 3227/3228). The extra power car, 373999, is still there.

Indeed they are, and seem to be slowly rotting away (see my post above).

 

[Harbornite]

Why is it chalk and cheese? Is it just because the MK3 coaches can go anywhere for the most part on Network rail and where (sic) built in the UK, whereas the class 373 coaches where (sic) built in France so they are bound to be no good.

No. Class 373s are far more bespoke and complex and therefore unsuitable for the majority of the British rail network. Also they were built in Birmingham which, when I last checked, wasn't in France.

 

[Harbornite]

"373's are to old and maintenance heavy" meanwhile commuters still enjoy travels on HST's and networkers from the 70's and 80's and freight companies are using 37, 20's, 57's and wagons which look like they came from the industrial revolution

I must admit though they probably aren't fit for todays railway and operators like shiny new things if they can get their hands on them

This is wrong on a number of levels which have been highlighted already.

Just think about it logically: those old locos and HSTs haven't been used on intensive 186mph services with minimal maintenance.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The trailers from 3203/4 have been refurbished and will soon be paired up with refurbished power cars 3211/2; the power cars from 3203/4 are doomed and so are the trailers from 3211/2.

However, based on their normal practice we can very likely expect the power cars 3211/2 to be renumbered to match the trailers.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

The trailers from 3203/4 have been refurbished and will soon be paired up with refurbished power cars 3211/2; the power cars from 3203/4 are doomed and so are the trailers from 3211/2.

However, based on their normal practice we can very likely expect the power cars 3211/2 to be renumbered to match the trailers.

Why not refurbish the trailers?

 

[BananaRepublic]

I thought all the 373s owned by SNCF had already been scrapped?

The only 3 they owned in the end, were the ones used on SNCF domestic services. These have gone to the scrap line.

The Eurostar operated sets originally owned by SNCF. Were transferred to the new Eurostar company in 2010.