Information for GTR Southern passengers during strike (no DOO discussion)

[Chrisgr31]

Meanwhile - no trains or replacement buses to Lewes and adjacent stations after mid-day on Saturday November 5th. The Bonfire Societies traditionally burn a huge effigy, and I have tendered my suggestions.

I do wonder how upset Southern, the Police, the District Council etc really are about the strike affecting the service on Saturday 5th November.

If I was cynical I would suggest they are delighted as they have spend the last few years advising people not to travel to Lewes for the fireworks. This year people can't travel by public transport courtesy of the RMT and now the authorities can blame the RMT for no trains, whilst probably being delighted that this will automatically reduce the numbers in the town!

 

[Bishopstone]

I do wonder how upset Southern, the Police, the District Council etc really are about the strike affecting the service on Saturday 5th November.

If I was cynical I would suggest they are delighted as they have spend the last few years advising people not to travel to Lewes for the fireworks. This year people can't travel by public transport courtesy of the RMT and now the authorities can blame the RMT for no trains, whilst probably being delighted that this will automatically reduce the numbers in the town!

Yes, I agree with that. Falling on a Saturday, and assuming the current run of fine weather lasts, would have made for the most difficult event in years from a policing and public transport perspective.

 

[A Challenge]

Is the emergency timetable still in operation? I want a decent service on Southern, DOO or no DOO. GTR isn't a good operator!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Freudian! This is in much in the same way that Southern's 377/6 and /7s have declassified first class on their Metro routes. I have somewhat lost the plot on the current variants within the 319 fleet, but, broadly, some have first class and some have had it removed. When units with first class still intact are used on Sutton line trains then announcements are appropriate. I bet it's not consistently-applied though, as Southern's certainly isn't!

Funny you say that; the times I board a London Bridge train in the morning, it could be anything from a 455 to a 377/3, 377/4, 377/6 or 377/7 and I haven't made to concerted effort to see if First has been declassified. The ones I have been on still have the antimacassers/window stickers etc and zero announcements regarding classification/declassification. Perhaps its different as 377s on Southern are more likely to turn up anywhere on the network as opposed to the more limited routes that 319s work on Thameslink

 

[infobleep]

I just looked at timetable 52, and to me it seems that the TL metro services to Sutton / Sevenoaks don't convey any 1st class according to the official timetable.

At some stations they announce this train doesn't have first class so you can sit in it. However in all cases I struggled to find a first class section on said train!

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[Deepgreen]

At some stations they announce this train doesn't have first class so you can sit in it. However in all cases I struggled to find a first class section on said train!

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If you are referring to class 319s, that is because certain trains (mainly on the Sutton route) are not diagrammed to include first class and, whenever possible, a class 319 will be selected that has had the first class section permanently downgraded. However, sometimes a first class-equipped 319 will turn up, and the message is for those occasions.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Funny you say that; the times I board a London Bridge train in the morning, it could be anything from a 455 to a 377/3, 377/4, 377/6 or 377/7 and I haven't made to concerted effort to see if First has been declassified. The ones I have been on still have the antimacassers/window stickers etc and zero announcements regarding classification/declassification. Perhaps its different as 377s on Southern are more likely to turn up anywhere on the network as opposed to the more limited routes that 319s work on Thameslink

If you are using a Metro route, than no matter what stock appears, first class will not apply. The 377/6s and 377/7s are rostered for a few main line workings (Horsham to Victoria mainly) and that is where confusion arises.

The previous policy of claiming to remove the antimacassars on Metro routes has disappeared (it was pretty much unworkable anyway) and the units now seem to have them permanently. The upshot is that, unless you are familiar with which trains are running on Metro routes and which are main line, it's hard to know whether first is in operation. My view is that the 377/6s and 377/7s, which are mainly used on Metro routes, should have been equipped with large signs in first class telling passengers whether it is in operation or not.

However, given the pitiful performance of the basic PIS screens on all the 377 sub-classes, this would probably have been yet another piece of kit to have failed frequently! My TL train from Blackfriars had a defective PIS yet again yesterday afternoon - showing the next station as St. Pancras International when we left Blackfriars, then as Blackfriars all the way to East Croydon, where it changed to Redhill! I have lost count of the number of trains I have been on recently where the PIS has been off or showing wrong information.

 

[tsr]

Is the emergency timetable still in operation? I want a decent service on Southern, DOO or no DOO. GTR isn't a good operator!

Tomorrow should be the last day of the revised timetable. However, as demonstrated today, there are still rostering issues of one description or another affecting Southern. Both conductor and driver cover has been very very tight, sometimes almost unworkable in places, this week. This has actually equally applied to Thameslink as well, which is perhaps somewhat worse than the previous disruption where the focus was much more on Southern, and has exacerbated a number of severe disruptions this week.

For anyone travelling today, Southern have a "headline" disruption incident being broadcast to passengers due to a shortage of crew - replacement buses are on standby at a number of locations, and a number of routes are subject to cancellations. Extensive ticket acceptance will be put in place too.

Expect "full and standing" to feature on the disruption info page quite a lot...!

 

[infobleep]

Tomorrow should be the last day of the revised timetable. However, as demonstrated today, there are still rostering issues of one description or another affecting Southern. Both conductor and driver cover has been very very tight, sometimes almost unworkable in places, this week. This has actually equally applied to Thameslink as well, which is perhaps somewhat worse than the previous disruption where the focus was much more on Southern, and has exacerbated a number of severe disruptions this week.

For anyone travelling today, Southern have a "headline" disruption incident being broadcast to passengers due to a shortage of crew - replacement buses are on standby at a number of locations, and a number of routes are subject to cancellations. Extensive ticket acceptance will be put in place too.

Expect "full and standing" to feature on the disruption info page quite a lot...!

Given that is occurring, how are they able to restore a full timetable after today?

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[Deepgreen]

Given that is occurring, how are they able to restore a full timetable after today?

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They won't be able to - there will be multiple cancellations as there have been this week. All this totally defeats the object of the temporary timetables supposedly giving certainty about trains running! Major crew shortages have been going on for so long now that it begs the question of why was any planning so abysmally lacking in the run up to this year that such a shortfall could have been allowed to occur? It can't all be down to disgruntled staff, despite the subterranean morale.

 

[Deepgreen]

The 0831 Redhill to Victoria this morning had the first class at the front, but, perversely, the guard/conductor/OBS was working form the fourth coach (noting that every time the first class is at the rear, they work from the front!). So - no ticket checking again, but, on top of that, the guard's panel in the first class vestibule was left open for the entire journey. Not impressed.

Picture taken in Merstham tunnel - hence the appearance of night!

 

[Bishopstone]

Yesterday, due to multiple cancellations, tickets with Southern and Thameslink restrictions were accepted on GatEx. In this instance, is everyone who paid the premium GatEx fare - either for a paper ticket or Oyster/contactless - entitled to a partial refund, upon application?

Indeed, the same would apply on strike days when there is mutual acceptance. On these occasions, do ticket machines grey-out the premium fares, and are the barriers at Victoria platforms 13 & 14 re-coded to apply the Southern fare only, to Oyster/contactless cards?

 

[swt class 450]

The 0831 Redhill to Victoria this morning had the first class at the front, but, perversely, the guard/conductor/OBS was working form the fourth coach (noting that every time the first class is at the rear, they work from the front!). So - no ticket checking again, but, on top of that, the guard's panel in the first class vestibule was left open for the entire journey. Not impressed.

Picture taken in Merstham tunnel - hence the appearance of night!

This is very common for Guards to leave the panels open (often even with the keys in it). Just last week i was on a train (171) on the London Bridge to Uckfield line and all four panels by one of the sets of doors were left wide open. Additionally his Avantix machine and Card machine and set of keys and t key were also left unattended on one of the fold down seats by the doors. While he was sitting on a seat a few rows down (doing something on his phone) facing away from the doors (so if anyone did try to mess with the panels or take the machines or keys he wouldnt have seen them). Every time we stopped he got up to open and close the doors but then sat back back down again. This is actually quite a common occurance on Southern trains. I have seen this many times before.

 

[JonathanH]

Yesterday, due to multiple cancellations, tickets with Southern and Thameslink restrictions were accepted on GatEx. In this instance, is everyone who paid the premium GatEx fare - either for a paper ticket or Oyster/contactless - entitled to a partial refund, upon application?

Indeed, the same would apply on strike days when there is mutual acceptance. On these occasions, do ticket machines grey-out the premium fares, and are the barriers at Victoria platforms 13 & 14 re-coded to apply the Southern fare only, to Oyster/contactless cards?

No, but the gate between 13-14 and 9-12 is left open and passengers are encouraged to go that way by posters placed in front of the 13-14 barriers.

 

[Phil.]

Hopefully he'll win.

http://www.surreymirror.co.uk/court-rules-earlswood-commuter-can-sue-southern-for-poor-train-service/story-29848925-detail/story.html

A Surrey commuter is delighted after a judge ruled he can sue Southern rail for poor service.

Sergei Cristo's case was thrown out by a district judge at Reigate County Court earlier this year, but now his appeal against that decision has been successful, and the case is expected to go to trial early in the New Year.

The ruling offers "a glimmer of hope" to disillusioned commuters, said Mr Cristo, who is trying to sue Southern for £500 for overcrowded and cancelled trains on his commute from Earlswood to London Bridge.

Central to his claim, which dates back to 2014, is the fact that trains were so full he was physically unable to get on, and some services were removed from the timetable.

The 43-year-old was so fed up with the commute, he has since moved from Surrey to London.

http://www.surreymirror.co.uk/court...rain-service/story-29848925-detail/story.html

 

[74A]

Hopefully he'll win.

http://www.surreymirror.co.uk/court...rain-service/story-29848925-detail/story.html

Doing what he is doing isn't going to be cheap. Probably cost several thousands already. A full trial maybe over ten thousand. Must have deep pockets !

 

[Deepgreen]

Bizarre running this morning - 0831 Redhill to Victoria (ex-Horsham) was only two minutes late leaving Redhill, but then omitted Merstham and Couldson South (right time and two early respectively!). Both had full platforms and our train was lightly-loaded. First class at the rear, but again no sign of any guard/conductor/OBS and no announcements that we would not stop at either station.

Despite the early running before East Croydon, we were still eight minutes late at Victoria, owing to the apparently-immovable policy of putting 2L09 (ex-East Grinstead) ahead of us from the slow to the fast at Selhurst. Even on days when we arrive at Selhurst junction well ahead of 2L09, it is always given priority, despite having the same stopping pattern thereafter, and therefore always delaying us!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Hopefully he'll win.

http://www.surreymirror.co.uk/court...rain-service/story-29848925-detail/story.html

It will make little difference if he does - he might get the £500 plus costs that he seeks, but that (to me, at least) would be far, far less than the time and trouble would be worth, on top of which it won't be allowed to set a precedent for others to follow suit without similar disproportionate effort. As HMG is directly controlling Southern, the impact on their regime will probably be nil.

 

[Phil.]

Bizarre running this morning - 0831 Redhill to Victoria (ex-Horsham) was only two minutes late leaving Redhill, but then omitted Merstham and Couldson South (right time and two early respectively!). Both had full platforms and our train was lightly-loaded. First class at the rear, but again no sign of any guard/conductor/OBS and no announcements that we would not stop at either station.

Despite the early running before East Croydon, we were still eight minutes late at Victoria, owing to the apparently-immovable policy of putting 2L09 (ex-East Grinstead) ahead of us from the slow to the fast at Selhurst. Even on days when we arrive at Selhurst junction well ahead of 2L09, it is always given priority, despite having the same stopping pattern thereafter, and therefore always delaying us!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It will make little difference if he does - he might get the £500 plus costs that he seeks, but that (to me, at least) would be far, far less than the time and trouble would be worth, on top of which it won't be allowed to set a precedent for others to follow suit without similar disproportionate effort. As HMG is directly controlling Southern, the impact on their regime will probably be nil.

I wasn't alluding to the TOC suffering, I was alluding to the fact that at least
i he's taking them to court and
ii he'll get a bit of rightly deserved compo from this farrago.

 

[infobleep]

Bizarre running this morning - 0831 Redhill to Victoria (ex-Horsham) was only two minutes late leaving Redhill, but then omitted Merstham and Couldson South (right time and two early respectively!). Both had full platforms and our train was lightly-loaded. First class at the rear, but again no sign of any guard/conductor/OBS and no announcements that we would not stop at either station.

Despite the early running before East Croydon, we were still eight minutes late at Victoria, owing to the apparently-immovable policy of putting 2L09 (ex-East Grinstead) ahead of us from the slow to the fast at Selhurst. Even on days when we arrive at Selhurst junction well ahead of 2L09, it is always given priority, despite having the same stopping pattern thereafter, and therefore always delaying us!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It will make little difference if he does - he might get the £500 plus costs that he seeks, but that (to me, at least) would be far, far less than the time and trouble would be worth, on top of which it won't be allowed to set a precedent for others to follow suit without similar disproportionate effort. As HMG is directly controlling Southern, the impact on their regime will probably be nil.

Fascinating that they skipped the stations. I was once on a train that left 4 minutes late and skipped 2 stations, despite the fact it was often 4 minutes further into its journey when it did stop at those stations. Whenever it left just 2 minutes late, which wasn't uncommon, they didn't cancel 1 station to help make up the lost time.

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[Deepgreen]

I wasn't alluding to the TOC suffering, I was alluding to the fact that at least
i he's taking them to court and
ii he'll get a bit of rightly deserved compo from this farrago.

Indeed - but the £500 would be nowhere near enough to make it genuine compensation from my point of view, given the huge amount of time and stress that has presumably gone into getting him to where is today. All this might be fine if it led to a change of attitude and/or the achievement of a point of principle, but, sadly, I think it won't.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Be a landmark case if he wins - but I'm guessing Southern/GTR will have a lot of "get-out" clauses particularly like "things out of their control" etc...

Good luck to him if he has the energy - and the cash!

 

[Deepgreen]

Fascinating that they skipped the stations. I was once on a train that left 4 minutes late and skipped 2 stations, despite the fact it was often 4 minutes further into its journey when it did stop at those stations. Whenever it left just 2 minutes late, which wasn't uncommon, they didn't cancel 1 station to help make up the lost time.

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It was obvious that there was no need to skip two stops just for being two minutes late, especially as the train ran early until East Croydon, and then lost its usual 8-10 minutes by the time it got to Victoria! I suspect that, yet again, poor communication led to an error. Perhaps the strike day timetable was accidentally used (first stop East Croydon from Redhill) for this working. Whatever the reason, there looked to be some angry people watching the half-empty train flash through Merstham and Coulsdon South!

 

[tsr]

It was obvious that there was no need to skip two stops just for being two minutes late, especially as the train ran early until East Croydon, and then lost its usual 8-10 minutes by the time it got to Victoria! I suspect that, yet again, poor communication led to an error. Perhaps the strike day timetable was accidentally used (first stop East Croydon from Redhill) for this working. Whatever the reason, there looked to be some angry people watching the half-empty train flash through Merstham and Coulsdon South!

No, nothing to do with poor communication, and whilst you and I know that there are diagram errors from time to time (I believe your Reigate/Three Bridges service a little while back was a case in point), reverting to the strike timetable (and randomly printing and distributing the thousands of special diagrams now associated with it, complete with different diagram numbers from what's on the master roster) would be a completely different scale of error.

Trains were unable to call at Merstham and Coulsdon South on the Up Slow for quite some time due to the Up Fast & Quarry all the way from Gatwick Airport, through Earlswood and up to Stoats Nest Jn being blocked. This was due to a points fault on the Up Fast at one end of Earlswood Station meaning that a MOM had to come out, block the line and clip the points in the middle of the peak, in order to work round the problem safely for the rest of the day. Because some of the area around Earlswood station, including the track around the disused Fast platforms, is a "Red Zone", assessments of the situation showed they could not proceed safely onto the line without blocking it, which also of course included all movements from Gatwick right through to Stoats Nest.

In reaction to this, some trains needed to skip Merstham and Coulsdon South to prevent fast peak expresses from being held up behind. Realistically this could be the difference between losing one or two paths at the very height of the peak, per train stuck behind a stopper, which is catastrophic for BML reliability at the best of times, let alone the fact that service was already being recovered after a points failure near Eastbourne and a failed train at Crawley requiring examination by fitters. AIUI Control were very well aware and inundated with calls asking why, but they did put the calls back as soon as the points were clipped and the Up Fast (and, by extension, the Up Quarry) reopened. Merstham and Coulsdon South, especially off peak, usually feel like quite quick stops, but with rush hour traffic and perhaps if services were thinned out rather than eliminated, which would have resulted in time-consuming overcrowding, they can cause a big queue very quickly. In turn, of course, this can cause queues past Earlswood affecting permissive working at Redhill, GWR service problems which could impact on a substantial part of the day, etc.

I'm afraid I can't comment on the provision of onboard information this morning, though.

 

[infobleep]

No, nothing to do with poor communication, and whilst you and I know that there are diagram errors from time to time (I believe your Reigate/Three Bridges service a little while back was a case in point), reverting to the strike timetable (and randomly printing and distributing the thousands of special diagrams now associated with it, complete with different diagram numbers from what's on the master roster) would be a completely different scale of error.

Trains were unable to call at Merstham and Coulsdon South on the Up Slow for quite some time due to the Up Fast & Quarry all the way from Gatwick Airport, through Earlswood and up to Stoats Nest Jn being blocked. This was due to a points fault on the Up Fast at one end of Earlswood Station meaning that a MOM had to come out, block the line and clip the points in the middle of the peak, in order to work round the problem safely for the rest of the day. Because some of the area around Earlswood station, including the track around the disused Fast platforms, is a "Red Zone", assessments of the situation showed they could not proceed safely onto the line without blocking it, which also of course included all movements from Gatwick right through to Stoats Nest.

In reaction to this, some trains needed to skip Merstham and Coulsdon South to prevent fast peak expresses from being held up behind. Realistically this could be the difference between losing one or two paths at the very height of the peak, per train stuck behind a stopper, which is catastrophic for BML reliability at the best of times, let alone the fact that service was already being recovered after a points failure near Eastbourne and a failed train at Crawley requiring examination by fitters. AIUI Control were very well aware and inundated with calls asking why, but they did put the calls back as soon as the points were clipped and the Up Fast (and, by extension, the Up Quarry) reopened. Merstham and Coulsdon South, especially off peak, usually feel like quite quick stops, but with rush hour traffic and perhaps if services were thinned out rather than eliminated, which would have resulted in time-consuming overcrowding, they can cause a big queue very quickly. In turn, of course, this can cause queues past Earlswood affecting permissive working at Redhill, GWR service problems which could impact on a substantial part of the day, etc.

I'm afraid I can't comment on the provision of onboard information this morning, though.

It sounds like the right course of action was taken but as is case at times, the reasons or even brief generalised details of the reasons were not given out to passengers, who then get frustrated and possibly angry that yet again the incompetent railway isn't helping.

Had information been given out then I think people might be more understanding. May be is it the case that no matter how much information you give out, no one is understanding or not enough people are understand to make it worthwhile giving out such information. I don't know.

I'd like to say the not giving out of information is unusual but whilst it's not occurring every time there's an issue, it isn't unusual.

Sometimes when I come across issues that are not communicated to passengers I am reminded of the World War II slogan, careless and talk costs lives. I don't know why I'm reminded of it as lives are unlikely to be lost if they said what was going on.

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[Deepgreen]

No, nothing to do with poor communication, and whilst you and I know that there are diagram errors from time to time (I believe your Reigate/Three Bridges service a little while back was a case in point), reverting to the strike timetable (and randomly printing and distributing the thousands of special diagrams now associated with it, complete with different diagram numbers from what's on the master roster) would be a completely different scale of error.

Trains were unable to call at Merstham and Coulsdon South on the Up Slow for quite some time due to the Up Fast & Quarry all the way from Gatwick Airport, through Earlswood and up to Stoats Nest Jn being blocked. This was due to a points fault on the Up Fast at one end of Earlswood Station meaning that a MOM had to come out, block the line and clip the points in the middle of the peak, in order to work round the problem safely for the rest of the day. Because some of the area around Earlswood station, including the track around the disused Fast platforms, is a "Red Zone", assessments of the situation showed they could not proceed safely onto the line without blocking it, which also of course included all movements from Gatwick right through to Stoats Nest.

In reaction to this, some trains needed to skip Merstham and Coulsdon South to prevent fast peak expresses from being held up behind. Realistically this could be the difference between losing one or two paths at the very height of the peak, per train stuck behind a stopper, which is catastrophic for BML reliability at the best of times, let alone the fact that service was already being recovered after a points failure near Eastbourne and a failed train at Crawley requiring examination by fitters. AIUI Control were very well aware and inundated with calls asking why, but they did put the calls back as soon as the points were clipped and the Up Fast (and, by extension, the Up Quarry) reopened. Merstham and Coulsdon South, especially off peak, usually feel like quite quick stops, but with rush hour traffic and perhaps if services were thinned out rather than eliminated, which would have resulted in time-consuming overcrowding, they can cause a big queue very quickly. In turn, of course, this can cause queues past Earlswood affecting permissive working at Redhill, GWR service problems which could impact on a substantial part of the day, etc.

I'm afraid I can't comment on the provision of onboard information this morning, though.

That's interesting. According to RTT, nothing followed 2C19 at Merstham until 2C30, 16 minutes later. Some trains are shown there as passing, but were the diverted trains not listed? Again according to RTT, Merstham had no London trains from 0800 until 0950! However, my train (2C19) had to wait at Stoats Nest for both up (2x442) and down (3x377) Quarry line trains to pass, so it seems that trains were using the Quarry/fast lines then.

 

[tsr]

That's interesting. According to RTT, nothing followed 2C19 at Merstham until 2C30, 16 minutes later. Some trains are shown there as passing, but were the diverted trains not listed? Again according to RTT, Merstham had no London trains from 0800 until 0950! However, my train (2C19) had to wait at Stoats Nest for both up (2x442) and down (3x377) Quarry line trains to pass, so it seems that trains were using the Quarry/fast lines then.

You'd not be able to tell from RTT if something additionally passed Merstham and Coulsdon South vice the Quarry, unless you checked the routing of every fast train at Earlswood to see if it showed "Q" (Quarry) or "M" (Redhill Up Main Line -> Up Slow). Even that can be a bit dodgy at times.

The points were clipped at 0819 so the Up Quarry was just opening as your train went through Redhill, which probably did not leave enough time to revoke instructions for SSOs. I can't comment on any subsequent trains skipping Merstham and Coulsdon South but do also be aware that when RTT shows a train has passed, it is not always correct. I do suspect that some further trains did skip those stations after yours did, though.

 

[infobleep]

So how many trains today have been cancelled. Will GTR be releasing that information, like they release information on percentage of services running during the strike day timetables.

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[Deepgreen]

Apologies - a rant ensues, but shows a typically-frustrating and uncoordinated journey via Redhill.

This morning was again dire - our GWR train was a few minutes late arriving at Redhill, and many passengers hurried across the island platform to board the 0831 to Victoria, which pulled out at the exact moment we got our fingers to the doors! This is the latest example of what many people perceive to be deliberately blinkered operation at Redhill, whereby the (Southern) staff very frequently let London trains go at the precise moment that incoming GWR ones disgorge their passengers. This happens too often to be coincidence, but nothing is done to allow common sense to prevail. All the old 'every second counts' blather just doesn't wash when the trains are held for several minutes outside East Croydon every day, no matter whether they leave Redhill on time or late.

So - London passengers waited for the next train, the 0840 to London Bridge. This was late (it lost 6 minutes from a right time departure from Tonbridge for reasons unknown) but it was also held outside Redhill because the signaller had cleared the main line south for the late running Brighton and Tonbridge train, even before it had arrived. So, this locked up the junction, even though Redhill is notorious for the time it takes to split and join trains, and five minutes elapsed before the Brighton portion left, finally letting the ex-Tonbridge portion into the station, having lost even more time waiting for the junction which could have been clear if the route south had not been set so much earlier than necessary. Even then, the route for the Tonbridge-bound portion wasn't cleared for another nearly two minutes when nothing was preventing it, as the incoming ex-Tonbridge train already had the junction set in its favour. More lateness therefore accrued for no apparent reason. 'Every second counts' when it suits, but not at other times!

Once the ex-Reigate portion had joined us, we left five minutes late. We arrived at London Bridge 18 minutes late, having been held at East Croydon for another train to overtake us (!), and sundry other delays. So, for the want of a sensible ten or fifteen second wait by the 0831 at Redhill, London passengers from the GWR train had an unnecessary half hour added to their journeys. The journey was also helpfully punctuated by the guard/conductor/OBS telling us that were were at red signals at intervals en route! He was not to be seen at any time during the journey (it wasn't very crowded) to check tickets, etc.

Essentially, then, Southern's very poor performance from pre-industrial action times continues, but is now further compounded by what we must assume is understandably low morale causing the guards/conductors/OBSs to remain tucked away on every train I have caught for many weeks now. It's difficult to see how Southern could score any more own goals.

Rant over.

 

[infobleep]

Apologies - a rant ensues, but shows a typically-frustrating and uncoordinated journey via Redhill.

This morning was again dire - our GWR train was a few minutes late arriving at Redhill, and many passengers hurried across the island platform to board the 0831 to Victoria, which pulled out at the exact moment we got our fingers to the doors! This is the latest example of what many people perceive to be deliberately blinkered operation at Redhill, whereby the (Southern) staff very frequently let London trains go at the precise moment that incoming GWR ones disgorge their passengers. This happens too often to be coincidence, but nothing is done to allow common sense to prevail. All the old 'every second counts' blather just doesn't wash when the trains are held for several minutes outside East Croydon every day, no matter whether they leave Redhill on time or late.

So - London passengers waited for the next train, the 0840 to London Bridge. This was late (it lost 6 minutes from a right time departure from Tonbridge for reasons unknown) but it was also held outside Redhill because the signaller had cleared the main line south for the late running Brighton and Tonbridge train, even before it had arrived. So, this locked up the junction, even though Redhill is notorious for the time it takes to split and join trains, and five minutes elapsed before the Brighton portion left, finally letting the ex-Tonbridge portion into the station, having lost even more time waiting for the junction which could have been clear if the route south had not been set so much earlier than necessary. Even then, the route for the Tonbridge-bound portion wasn't cleared for another nearly two minutes when nothing was preventing it, as the incoming ex-Tonbridge train already had the junction set in its favour. More lateness therefore accrued for no apparent reason. 'Every second counts' when it suits, but not at other times!

Once the ex-Reigate portion had joined us, we left five minutes late. We arrived at London Bridge 18 minutes late, having been held at East Croydon for another train to overtake us (!), and sundry other delays. So, for the want of a sensible ten or fifteen second wait by the 0831 at Redhill, London passengers from the GWR train had an unnecessary half hour added to their journeys. The journey was also helpfully punctuated by the guard/conductor/OBS telling us that were were at red signals at intervals en route! He was not to be seen at any time during the journey (it wasn't very crowded) to check tickets, etc.

Essentially, then, Southern's very poor performance from pre-industrial action times continues, but is now further compounded by what we must assume is understandably low morale causing the guards/conductors/OBSs to remain tucked away on every train I have caught for many weeks now. It's difficult to see how Southern could score any more own goals.

Rant over.

So can anyone explain what would happen if the 8.31 was held every day for the GWR service? Would it lead to major problems or would the waiting outside East Croydon help?

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[Deepgreen]

So can anyone explain what would happen if the 8.31 was held every day for the GWR service? Would it lead to major problems or would the waiting outside East Croydon help?

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I have long maintained that it should only be held if the GWR arrival is actually arriving at the platform - in other words, passengers on board the GWR train can clearly see the train they want to catch on the other side of the island platform and could reach it and board in a few seconds. The most intense frustration is felt by those of us who literally have the train in reach only to see it leave without us when another ten or fifteen seconds would have been sufficient to get aboard (and, no, it's not an advertised connection, but this is what I regard as joined-up railway operation with passengers in mind). I don't doubt that the platform staff at Redhill have instructions to despatch 'their' (0831) train no matter what else may be going on, but that's what I think is short-sighted and unhelpful. It would certainly accord with the part of Southern's corporate mission statement that says; "Taking Service to the Next Level"!

I do not advocate holding the 0831 for every late GWR arrival (nice though that would be, it isn't practical). As I have said, too, no matter what time the 0831 leaves Redhill it is held or checked at either/both Stoats Nest Junction and outside East Croydon for several minutes on well over 95% of the times I have caught it, so the extra few seconds at Redhill would not make a jot of difference.

 

[infobleep]

I have long maintained that it should only be held if the GWR arrival is actually arriving at the platform - in other words, passengers on board the GWR train can clearly see the train they want to catch on the other side of the island platform and could reach it and board in a few seconds. The most intense frustration is felt by those of us who literally have the train in reach only to see it leave without us when another ten or fifteen seconds would have been sufficient to get aboard (and, no, it's not an advertised connection, but this is what I regard as joined-up railway operation with passengers in mind). I don't doubt that the platform staff at Redhill have instructions to despatch 'their' (0831) train no matter what else may be going on, but that's what I think is short-sighted and unhelpful. It would certainly accord with the part of Southern's corporate mission statement that says; "Taking Service to the Next Level"!

I do not advocate holding the 0831 for every late GWR arrival (nice though that would be, it isn't practical). As I have said, too, no matter what time the 0831 leaves Redhill it is held or checked at either/both Stoats Nest Junction and outside East Croydon for several minutes on well over 95% of the times I have caught it, so the extra few seconds at Redhill would not make a jot of difference.

If it's not an official connection then they can claim they don't need to do anything and if it's critical you should get up earlier. I imagine even if they meant leaving the night before, that would be their statement. I imagine Redhill is locked at night of course.

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