Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[Clansman]

What is it which causes locomotives like the 73s, 67s to fail? Maybe there needs to be a new locomotive build which are specificily designed to haul the sleeper, to try and combat falling reliability and punctuality. A bit like how the 185s were specifically designed specifically to be able to cope with hilly routes like the Pennines.

Just a thought...

 

[najaB]

Maybe there needs to be a new locomotive build ...

I wouldn't like to think how much a new-design fleet of 6 (7?) will cost per-unit.

 

[MB1]

Just a thought, why not look into using HSTs on the Sleeper once they begin to be replaced on their current routes from next year? This is of course if reliability is as bad as it is made out to be.

Not been on here too long, so I don't know if it's already been discussed, but they currently manage Scotland to London everyday on the East Coast.

 

[Clansman]

I wouldn't like to think how much a new-design fleet of 6 (7?) will cost per-unit.

Neither would I, to be honest. But it could almost certainly benefit in the longer term though.

 

[najaB]

Neither would I, to be honest. But it could almost certainly benefit in the longer term though.

There's also no way to be sure that a second new locomotive fleet won't suffer problems in the way that their first (the Class 73/9) has.

 

[Clansman]

There's also no way to be sure that a second new locomotive fleet won't suffer problems in the way that their first (the Class 73/9) has.

You'll always have that with new rolling stock coming though. Every new loco/rolling stock has teething problems. Although that being said I still think a new build fleet of loco's design specifically for the sleeper would benefit punctuality and reliability.

Although that won't happen :roll:

 

[marks87]

The 73/9s effectively are a new-build locomotive insofar as everything that makes them work is new.

Who's to say that a completely new locomotive wouldn't have been built to a similar spec and thus suffered the same problems?

 

[DimTim]

How much pre service testing has taken place? I assume one has not gone to Velim like class 68/88?
Faults found on entering service rather than months of test running to iron out issues.

 

[Highland37]

The 73/9s effectively are a new-build locomotive insofar as everything that makes them work is new.

Who's to say that a completely new locomotive wouldn't have been built to a similar spec and thus suffered the same problems?

This is simply not true. Much of them is new, but your statement that "everything" that makes them work is new is incorrect.

Yes the 67s had issues but nothing close to the problems with the 73s. It's damaging the reputation of the service more than ever and also a lot more than when the 67s were on it.

 

[CosherB]

Are all of the failures on the 73/9s related to the well-documented alternator problem or are there other issues as well?

 

[JonathanH]

66737 (with 73971 for ETS) working the southbound Inverness sleeper tonight.

Six seated passengers and no less than 14 vacant reservations between Inverness and Preston - makes me wonder if someone is trying to sabotage the booking system.

 

[BRX]

Although that being said I still think a new build fleet of loco's design specifically for the sleeper would benefit punctuality and reliability.

What would be specific to their design?

I don't see that they have to do anything particularly special, compared to any other loco hauled passenger train.

 

[Scotrail84]

Rumours of 37's coming for cover for the 73's doing the rounds. No idea if this is true or just bothy talk. We shall see though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
1S25 failed at Carstairs earlier. Rescued by a 66. Currently 106 late. Not all failures are restricted to the class 73's

 

[Blindtraveler]

I assume if true then all Scottish 73s would be off on a Xmas Holiday to the East Midlands for rest and fettling?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Six seated passengers and no less than 14 vacant reservations between Inverness and Preston - makes me wonder if someone is trying to sabotage the booking system.

It's midweek in winter - I wouldn't expect it to be busy?

 

[JonathanH]

It's midweek in winter - I wouldn't expect it to be busy?

I didn't expect it to be busy but if someone is going to put any number of bogus reservations on the train then they may mean the service loses out on paying passengers.

 

[bb21]

Rumours of 37's coming for cover for the 73's doing the rounds. No idea if this is true or just bothy talk. We shall see though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
1S25 failed at Carstairs earlier. Rescued by a 66. Currently 106 late. Not all failures are restricted to the class 73's

Pan drop, neutral section, a quite loud clunk noise. Then stuck.

Any idea which 66 came to the rescue?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Reading the incident log, seems like recovery was delayed as the driver did not sign 92s, so they couldn't use the one rostered for 1B26 to rescue it.

 

[Fishplate84]

It's midweek in winter - I wouldn't expect it to be busy?

Midweek in winter is hardly likely to be busy, but booked seats Inverness to Preston?? Who makes that journey, when where they booked, by who, had they already paid and were they given a refund.

It's things like that that strengthen the case for reviewing refund policies. No way there could be 14 no-shows or cancellations on that section. All it has done is prevent legitimate people booking and given the impression that the train is full.

If I were Serco, I'd be more rigorous in looking at the booking patterns. It's not as if there are that many passengers and being a fully reserved service, they should have all their booking details.

Although it's a 'public service', its certainly a nice to have service rather than a economically critical one.
The sleeper is one service that needs to be commercially astute and aware its financial success is very closely linked to having continued support from Scottish Government. Nobody wants to see it go, but a lot of money has been invested to keep it alive that would be an easy decision to liquidate if cloth has to be cut somewhere and it was haemorrhaging more money than expected through lack of demand or not being sharp on making sure people booked are actually travelling and not getting their money back.

Very expensive to spend large amounts of public money on staff and assets to run fresh air about for no reason. Not to mention the environmental argument.

 

[CosherB]

Rumours of 37's coming for cover for the 73's doing the rounds. No idea if this is true or just bothy talk. We shall see though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
1S25 failed at Carstairs earlier. Rescued by a 66. Currently 106 late. Not all failures are restricted to the class 73's

37's?! As Ethels or replacements for the 66s?

 

[BRX]

I didn't expect it to be busy but if someone is going to put any number of bogus reservations on the train then they may mean the service loses out on paying passengers.

I've noticed this before - the seated coach with loads of reserved seats but no-one in them. I've wondered what that's all about.

 

[Scotrail84]

Pan drop, neutral section, a quite loud clunk noise. Then stuck.

Any idea which 66 came to the rescue?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Reading the incident log, seems like recovery was delayed as the driver did not sign 92s, so they couldn't use the one rostered for 1B26 to rescue it.

I've no idea but can only assume it was one of the 66's booked to work the northbounds from edinburgh. I know the 90 is 048.

92 010 was the B26 loco.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've noticed this before - the seated coach with loads of reserved seats but no-one in them. I've wondered what that's all about.

I reckon people reserve it as a fallback in case they miss the last London/Glasgow/Edinburgh service. Usually quite a few no shows in the seats. Only 9 travelled on 1C11 last night but 29 were on 1B26
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

37's?! As Ethels or replacements for the 66s?

Don't know the answer to that I'm afraid.

 

[43096]

Rumours of 37's coming for cover for the 73's doing the rounds.

Love the way people just start repeating rumours that don't stand up to even the slightest scrutiny.

Perhaps you can explain:
1. Where ETH fitted 37s are coming from.
2. How an ETH fitted 37 (index 30) will heat 6 sleepers, a buffet and seated coach in the middle of winter.

 

[marks87]

This is simply not true. Much of them is new, but your statement that "everything" that makes them work is new is incorrect.

It's really not.

You take out all the new bits and good luck making it move. Or indeed do anything other than act as a hen house.

 

[47271]

Unclaimed reservations must be the number one source for conspiracy theories on this forum.

In the case of the Caledonian Sleeper, I've been told in the strictest confidence that they're held off on the personal instruction of Rupert Soames in case minor members of the aristocracy wish to make the journey to or from their grouse moors at short notice. They only travel in the seats because they don't like to draw attention to their fabulous wealth.

I see loads of unoccupied booked seats on trains the length and breadth of the UK on a daily basis, don't worry about it.

 

[Gonzoiku]

Down sleeper just arrived 106 mins late in the custody of 73971. Don't blame the 73, as the delay started at Carstairs!

GZ

 

[Scotrail84]

Love the way people just start repeating rumours that don't stand up to even the slightest scrutiny.

Perhaps you can explain:
1. Where ETH fitted 37s are coming from.
2. How an ETH fitted 37 (index 30) will heat 6 sleepers, a buffet and seated coach in the middle of winter.

I love the way people instantly dismiss things without any inside knowledge. Do you work for the sleepers? Do you even work in the rail industry or just sit there behind your keyboard and pick faults with those who do?

 

[87015]

I love the way people instantly dismiss things without any inside knowledge. Do you work for the sleepers? Do you even work in the rail industry or just sit there behind your keyboard and pick faults with those who do?

They are two perfectly reasonable basic level questions. You don't have to work in the industry to comment...

 

[fgwrich]

Love the way people just start repeating rumours that don't stand up to even the slightest scrutiny.

Perhaps you can explain:
1. Where ETH fitted 37s are coming from.
2. How an ETH fitted 37 (index 30) will heat 6 sleepers, a buffet and seated coach in the middle of winter.

And 3. How a 50 year old 37 will be more reliable than a rebuilt 73 working as an ETHEL? They can at least do that, most 37/4s won't have used their ETH for some time. And are hardly proving themselves just as reliable on the Cumbrian coast circuits. Unless you still keep the 66 powering, which would then be more expensive and heavier than the 73...

 

[43096]

I love the way people instantly dismiss things without any inside knowledge. Do you work for the sleepers? Do you even work in the rail industry or just sit there behind your keyboard and pick faults with those who do?

It's a railway forum. There are opinions. Deal with it.

I've dismissed it based on a logical analysis (I note "fgwrich" has added another very good point). You haven't answered those points, so I assume my analysis is correct, hence your tantrum.

 

[CosherB]

It's a railway forum. There are opinions. Deal with it.

I've dismissed it based on a logical analysis (I note "fgwrich" has added another very good point). You haven't answered those points, so I assume my analysis is correct, hence your tantrum.

+1

The future use of 37s on the CS is in the febrile realms of the end-of-platform fantasy or late-night drinking hostel musings.