Class 387 to GN

[387star]

Is a gn spec 321 or 317 better for comfort ?

 

[D365]

Is a gn spec 321 or 317 better for comfort ?

I rated the Class 321s better during their time.

 

[bramling]

Is a gn spec 321 or 317 better for comfort ?

Swings and roundabouts really.

Seating layout is almost identical, the main difference being the first-class location.

Seats are about the same, although the seats on the 317s can have a habit of the cushions being loose. 321s have a little more luggage space.

In terms of comfort, 321s have carpet and half tables whereas 317s don't. Both have CCTV and PIS.

321s are in a slightly better state of repair, although this is more a maintenance issue.

On balance -- I'd prefer 317s, but perhaps that's the railway enthusiast in me. From a commuter point of view the 321s probably have the edge.

All in all, I find both pretty comfortable. I'd rather have 2x317 or 2x321 over 1x365, although generally I prefer 365s.

 

[Failed Unit]

Depends on the service. If it is a "standard class only" give me the 321. But agree with a bramling. 365, 317, 321, 387 is the order of units i prefer to see on my service.

387s are ok off peak. If you don't mind getting shaken around in the fasts.

 

[bramling]

Depends on the service. If it is a "standard class only" give me the 321. But agree with a bramling. 365, 317, 321, 387 is the order of units i prefer to see on my service.

387s are ok off peak. If you don't mind getting shaken around in the fasts.

One other point, the 317s can be a slight pain because the fleet is roughly half/half with the first-class at the London end versus at the country end. However, this is not the fault of the trains - they've always been like this. Sadly the 387s currently have the same issue, although *much* more of an issue on them because the first class is in a much more intrusive location.

 

[Alfie1014]

Noted at least 5 ex GN 321s in Ilford Depot this morning by mid-afternoon 2 had migrated to Colchester CS. Couldn't get identify any numbers though. Not sure if any have entered service as yet end as AG won't need a full fleet until 3rd Jan now due to engineering block at Shenfield, will that be when they enter service on the GE?

 

[Wivenswold]

I saw the 321s at Colchester but was deep in conversation so only caught a glimpse but they look like they've been debranded. I assume they will be repainted first as they'll be staying for a few years.

 

[Spamcan81]

Not really any point in trying out 1st class on a 387, the only difference is a bit of cloth on the back of the seat

But the alternative was to try and find a seat in the very crowded standard class section. Discomfort aside, at least 1st on that journey didn't resemble an overcrowded sardine can.

 

[Alfie1014]

I saw the 321s at Colchester but was deep in conversation so only caught a glimpse but they look like they've been debranded. I assume they will be repainted first as they'll be staying for a few years.

I doubt they'll get painted unless they've any scheduled as part of the ROSCO overhaul programme, but we'll have to see. The de-branding seems so effective that they'd taken the unit numbers off as well!

 

[Spamcan81]

The 387s will be fine when they move on to the fast services. Quite luxurious in fact.

Hopefully we'll then get the 365s (and 700s) and everyone will be happy.

The 700s are ultimately what we need, and the 387s as a stopgap isn't really working out well. It wouldn't have been so bad if all 4 cars had become 8, but what seems to be happening more is that 8 cars become 4!

Your idea of luxurious must different to most if you describe as 387 as such. Give me a 365 over a 387 every time no matter what service it's working.

 

[jon0844]

Your idea of luxurious must different to most if you describe as 387 as such. Give me a 365 over a 387 every time no matter what service it's working.

When used appropriately, what's wrong with them? I don't have a problem with the seats. They have decent tables, power points, air con, decent toilets...

First class is pathetic and they're too cramped for busy peak services, but that's not the fault of the train.

They're quite close to what the 365s were like before they became more like the 700s.

 

[bramling]

When used appropriately, what's wrong with them? I don't have a problem with the seats. They have decent tables, power points, air con, decent toilets...

First class is pathetic and they're too cramped for busy peak services, but that's not the fault of the train.

They're quite close to what the 365s were like before they became more like the 700s.

I agree that in principle the Electrostar is a fine train - indeed it's a development of the 365 so the concept is sound.

The biggest issue I have is the seats. I realise this is a subjective matter, however I'm by no means the only person who finds these seats extremely uncomfortable. I don't regard myself as fussy with train seats, as I'm comfortable in just about every other type of train seat currently found in Britain - the one exception being the Merseyrail pacers. Quite so that seats will never please 100% of people, however the current seats seem to please a too low % of people. The 387s also have a very rough ride, however this wouldn't be an issue if the seats had some padding to smooth out the jolts.

The seating layout is not ideal for their current duties. Something like the c2c Electostar layout, including 3+2, would be ok. Not ideal, but a better compromise than the 387s.

The earliest Electrostars, as found on Southeastern, are simply lovely. It's a shame GN didn't get the 377/5s as originally planned. Wouldn't resolve the reduction in seat numbers though.

 

[Kite159]

I agree that in principle the Electrostar is a fine train - indeed it's a development of the 365 so the concept is sound.

The biggest issue I have is the seats. I realise this is a subjective matter, however I'm by no means the only person who finds these seats extremely uncomfortable. I don't regard myself as fussy with train seats, as I'm comfortable in just about every other type of train seat currently found in Britain - the one exception being the Merseyrail pacers. Quite so that seats will never please 100% of people, however the current seats seem to please a too low % of people. The 387s also have a very rough ride, however this wouldn't be an issue if the seats had some padding to smooth out the jolts.

The seating layout is not ideal for their current duties. Something like the c2c Electostar layout, including 3+2, would be ok. Not ideal, but a better compromise than the 387s.

The earliest Electrostars, as found on Southeastern, are simply lovely. It's a shame GN didn't get the 377/5s as originally planned. Wouldn't resolve the reduction in seat numbers though.

Remember the 377/5s have awful 3+2 seating in the middle coaches so the reduction in seat numbers wouldn't have been as much.

Even C2C are moving away from 3+2 with the "Metro" style 2+2 seating on the converted 357/3s and 387s

 

[317 forever]

I shall be travelling from King's Lynn to Cambridge. I'd like it to be a 387 or otherwise a 317 but expect it to be a 365.

 

[Failed Unit]

I shall be travelling from King's Lynn to Cambridge. I'd like it to be a 387 or otherwise a 317 but expect it to be a 365.

Won't be a 387 yet. They are not cleared from what I understand.

 

[Kite159]

Won't be a 387 yet. They are not cleared from what I understand.

How different is a 387 compared to a 379 which are cleared to Kings Lynn?

 

[Failed Unit]

How different is a 387 compared to a 379 which are cleared to Kings Lynn?

Probably not much. But it is people with much more knowledge than me on this very thread that say they aren't so no reason to doubt them as they work for the company.

It will be nice to get them moved onto the Kings Lynn services and get the 365s onto the shorter runs. Give both sets of passengers units suitable for the journeys they are making. But according to other posts they won't be hitting kings Lynn until may.

 

[Class377/5]

How different is a 387 compared to a 379 which are cleared to Kings Lynn?

Different software as well as updated connections (why they couldn't work in multiple with TL's 377s) meaning different enough especially for NR.

I shall be travelling from King's Lynn to Cambridge. I'd like it to be a 387 or otherwise a 317 but expect it to be a 365.

No expected 387s to Kings Lynn in passenger service until May timetable change anyway.

 

[387star]

There's a thought perhaps in the future the 379s when off lease can work alongside the GN 387s

 

[D365]

There's a thought perhaps in the future the 379s when off lease can work alongside the GN 387s

I imagine that would be to supplant the remaining Class 365s then, if it makes the fleet operation more efficient.

 

[Class377/5]

There's a thought perhaps in the future the 379s when off lease can work alongside the GN 387s

379 and 387 are not comparable with each other for passenger services as the 387 have the older tech in them to connect to other 38x series trains where as the 387 cannot outside ECS and rescue moves.

 

[jopsuk]

379 and 387 are not comparable with each other for passenger services as the 387 have the older tech in them to connect to other 38x series trains where as the 387 cannot outside ECS and rescue moves.

I think you've got carried away with your 387s here so it's not quite clear which of them is supposed to be a 379 instead. Especially as there are no other Bombardier 38x?

 

[APUK002]

Does anyone know the new 387 diagrams after the timetable change? Are there going to be any Kings Lynn services?

Same for me, I'm new on here, and love trains, does anyone have access to TRUST, genius, Gemini to query units that run specific services?

 

[387star]

I think you've got carried away with your 387s here so it's not quite clear which of them is supposed to be a 379 instead. Especially as there are no other Bombardier 38x?

It is the older 379s which are not compatible with 387s only 375/377s

I think they can still be banged together mechanically but if electrically probably plays havoc with MITRAC

 

[philjo]

It looked like 387s were operating a Cambridge fast service on Christmas Eve - I saw one going at speed on the approach to Letchworth towards London. Presumably a Cambridge - Kings cross service as they don't run to Kings Lynn yet. Probaby used to release 365s so that some of the Kings Lynn/Cambridge fasts can run as 12 coaches south of Cambridge?

 

[bramling]

It looked like 387s were operating a Cambridge fast service on Christmas Eve - I saw one going at speed on the approach to Letchworth towards London. Presumably a Cambridge - Kings cross service as they don't run to Kings Lynn yet. Probaby used to release 365s so that some of the Kings Lynn/Cambridge fasts can run as 12 coaches south of Cambridge?

There are already diagrams which do fast Cambridge services, as the normal diagrams interwork with everything else.

2015 Cambridge to King's Cross on a weekday is one such service.

Likewise, the Saturday pair diagrams involve fast Cambridge services too, but interworked with other services.

As you correctly say, they're not on diagrams which involve going north of Cambridge at present.

 

[Skimble19]

Saw at least one 8 car 321 set out this morning, although plenty of 387s out and about too. Wonder if any will survive on GN until 2017..!

 

[Class377/5]

I think you've got carried away with your 387s here so it's not quite clear which of them is supposed to be a 379 instead. Especially as there are no other Bombardier 38x?

No I haven't. Bombardier made a change to the Electrostar design after the 377/7 build (post 379) that meant future units were not backwards compatible with older Electrostar models.

The 379 are in the old bunch and will not work properly with the 387 fleets. Do not confuse the updated body with the wiring as both are different things that changed at different times.

 

[Class377/5]

It is the older 379s which are not compatible with 387s only 375/377s

I think they can still be banged together mechanically but if electrically probably plays havoc with MITRAC

No havoc but things like CCTV don't work between the two types of Electrostar due to them using incompatibility hardware. The basics like brakes work as well as interlock and motor control. However anything else like fire alarms do not and all the none working stuff is safety critical systems modern units must have to be in passenger service.

 

[jopsuk]

Presumably one of the changes at some point will to be remove the interworking of the diagrams between fast and slow, so that CA!Bridge/Kings Lynn fast services are desperate diagrams to the Cambridge semi-fast/slow and Peterborough services? Will need carefully platforming at Kings Cross but is required so that services can be converted to Thameslink