I was working at a northern station doing revenue and a passenger came through with a Arriva BUS (dependent of) staff pass, he claimed that it was valid and under dispute. In the end I charged him for his journey. My question is, is his Arriva bus staff pass valid on northern services ?
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Arriva bus pass on northern??
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They may be used between Manchester and Bolton assuming the person holding it is in uniform and on duty (there may be other places they are valid too). They are not valid for leisure travel or for spouses or dependants.
I would advise not to charge in future but to fill out a TIR and/or withdraw the pass.
I would advise not to charge in future but to fill out a TIR and/or withdraw the pass.
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185
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There has never been any formal or informal agreement. They were using them under Arriva Trains Northern (2002ish) and they weren't valid then.
Whether some staff (like myself) choose to turn a blind eye to other operator's staff is one thing.. but dependants - no way.
I was working between a station near Wigan and Liverpool lime street, I ain't gonna say the station for obvious reasons. I've not had any briefing relating to bus passes or even if they are on duty etc, yeah in future I will TIR him and use his pass as evidence against him (by confiscating it) I would of probably been more lenient on the person today if he had not lied over the dispute.
hairyhandedfool
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I do not know of any agreement between Arriva Rail North and Arriva Bus. Last staff briefing I saw said Northern staff cannot use Arriva buses for free and Arriva Bus staff cannot use Northern services for free.
Shaw S Hunter
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Sadly it seems there is a small number of Arriva bus staff all around the country taking similar liberties. In old Northern days I once had a family group who claimed to have used their bus company passes (issued by one of the Arriva companies in the Home Counties) from Cardiff to Manchester and expected that their onward travel to Bolton should also be free. Not on my train it wasn't! Arriva bus staff were regulars at attempting to use their passes between St Helens and Wigan: if in uniform and likely to be travelling to/from work then the right attitude often led to a blind eye being turned subject to a warning about the possibility of barrier checks.
First Group seem to deal with things better with the availability of cheap staff offers for employees to use a mode other than that which they work on. Though I gather the offer is not as generous as it once was.
Does a member of railway staff have the authority to confiscate a non-railway pass/travel document?
I think it can if it's being used for "theft of service" multiple times when warning has been given, although I will be verifying if this is true with my line manager tomorrow
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185
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Many a moon ago, I was told (an authorised) person may withdraw any article which is being presented as a travel ticket for their journey. Whether that extends to false legs, spouses or inflatable giraffes remains to be seen.
But an (invalid) travel pass where intent is shown, fairly certainly.
221129
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If it was a railway staff pass then I would agree, but not so sure on a bus pass as it doesn't belong to the railway company, I would be seeking Police assistance to avoid any unnecessary problems and to cover myself.
See if he was normal bus staff I'd turn a blind eye but his attitude was not so good so I didn't, cheers for the info
"Turning a blind eye" or "enabling fare evasion"?
All the arguments about fare evasion (reducing revenue, raising prices for honest passengers) also apply when staff "turn a blind eye".
Yes that's the basis of my question really. A railway document 100% can be withdrawn. A document not owned by the railway? It would be good to see something concrete on this.
I do not see how a railway official would be able to legally withdraw a non-railway document.
And, if this:
was ever the case, it certainly would not apply nowadays. You can imagine the headlines if a railway official "withdrew" a passenger's £600 smartphone.
Sorry for answering a question with a question, but wouldn't a BTP/regular surely have the power to confiscate a 'ticket' used for fraudulent purposes, even if it isn't a railway document?
I guess so. Perhaps wrongly, I would not consider BTP to be "railway officials".
Howardh
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Can someone involved with the railway, from ticket inspector to Transport Police, confiscate a credit card if they think it's either fake, being used fraudulently or won't register in their machine?
Only asking because today I went to my shop and mine wouldn't touch in, tried with the PIN and still it didn't work (paid in cash - which didn't cover up the embarrassment!)?
NB - worked at the petrol station, so must have been a faulty terminal, or it doesn't like Lloyds...
Only asking because today I went to my shop and mine wouldn't touch in, tried with the PIN and still it didn't work (paid in cash - which didn't cover up the embarrassment!)?
NB - worked at the petrol station, so must have been a faulty terminal, or it doesn't like Lloyds...
A credit card is property of the bank, and I believe that a bank gives merchants rights to confiscate the card in certain circumstances.
If someone paid with contactless on a mobile phone (including at an underground barrier), and a railway staff member confiscated it, I would expect them to be up in court answering to theft charges.
If someone paid with contactless on a mobile phone (including at an underground barrier), and a railway staff member confiscated it, I would expect them to be up in court answering to theft charges.
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bb21
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Blacklisted cards can certainly be confiscated. The process should be listed in each TOC's own cash regs.
Words from a conductor manager is that guards are not allowed to withdraw a bus company's staff pass, with our lot at least. The appropriate fare should be charged.
Words from a conductor manager is that guards are not allowed to withdraw a bus company's staff pass, with our lot at least. The appropriate fare should be charged.
That's correct. I've personally confiscated customers cards as a retailer when I've been asked to do so by the bank. Not all of them were stolen either...
Back in the day you had to hand over a card when you used it for payment in a shop which meant it was relatively easy for a merchant to retain it if they were required to do so. Nowadays there isn't usually a need ti hand over cards when making payment so I suspect it's very rare for a card to be retained by a merchant. Also, with electronic card processing it's far easier to get cards black listed, in the past when zip-zap machines were used to process payments using stolen credit cards was very lucrative and difficult to stop.
Tuppenny Tube
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When I visited a messroom used by arriva buses staff in the north west there was a notice on display from their HR dept stating quite clearly that staff passes are NOT valid on Northern rail services.
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