Night Tube trivia Q

[Howardh]

Is it possible to touch in with your contactless, travel and arrive (touch out) on a different charging day?

If so, what happens?? I assume the system knows this and will charge you for the one journey as the day it starts. Anyone??

 

[rebmcr]

http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/2016/08/night-tube-fares/

If the time of touch in at the start of the journey is before 0430 then the whole journey will be treated as part of the previous day and will count towards any cap accumulated for that day.

If the time of touch in at the start of the journey is from 0430 or later then the journey is treated as part of the new day. As the new day is a weekend day the off-peak cap (if applicable) counts straight away. Fares are still off-peak of course.

 

[Howardh]

Thanks!

 

[Taunton]

I understood that substantially reprogramming Oyster to handle this specific point was one of the issues on the critical path to Night Tube. The centre of the Oyster logic had been the break each day; night buses with a flat fare each journey didn't impact on it, while the New Year all night tube had previously only been practical as long as it was free.

 

[Busaholic]

I understood that substantially reprogramming Oyster to handle this specific point was one of the issues on the critical path to Night Tube. The centre of the Oyster logic had been the break each day; night buses with a flat fare each journey didn't impact on it, while the New Year all night tube had previously only been practical as long as it was free.

So no truth in the rumour that the Night Tube is free too, to those who are so minded?

 

[321over360]

You still pay to get on the night tube, just depending on if you start your night tube journey home before 0430 if you have done several tube/bus/dlr journeys from 0430 the day before you wont be charged any more, if you start after 0430 then you will be charged for the new day and part of a new capping day, simpler would have been for TFL to have extended the current run to 0500 (when most tube services originally started before night tube came along on Saturdays and still do on weekdays) therefore removing the weird anomaly the night tube has created

 

[Via Bank]

You still pay to get on the night tube, just depending on if you start your night tube journey home before 0430 if you have done several tube/bus/dlr journeys from 0430 the day before you wont be charged any more, if you start after 0430 then you will be charged for the new day and part of a new capping day, simpler would have been for TFL to have extended the current run to 0500 (when most tube services originally started before night tube came along on Saturdays and still do on weekdays) therefore removing the weird anomaly the night tube has created

I don't see how it's a weird anomaly. It just means tube trains run through the night, like buses. As before, ticket validity and capping applies to journeys that commence at or before 0429 the following day. (In fact, I think this now applies to National Rail tickets too.)

What I am interested in is how the Hopper fare interacts with daily capping. If I touch into a bus at 0420 and another at 0440, am I charged £1.50 or £3? What if I hit the cap for the previous day? Does the 0440 journey count as a continuation of my 0420 journey, counting towards the previous day's cap; or does it charge me £1.50 as part of a new charging day?

 

[paddington]

What I am interested in is how the Hopper fare interacts with daily capping. If I touch into a bus at 0420 and another at 0440, am I charged £1.50 or £3? What if I hit the cap for the previous day? Does the 0440 journey count as a continuation of my 0420 journey, counting towards the previous day's cap; or does it charge me £1.50 as part of a new charging day?

I believe the system first checks whether the most recent transaction is a charged bus/tram journey, before examining for caps etc. If it is, then no fare is charged. So I would expect that you would not be charged

I will try it out in 5 months' time when the sun is up at 0430 although people like MikeWh may have more information

 

[Busaholic]

I will try it out in 5 months' time when the sun is up at 0430

That's dedication.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

So you can tap in at Heathrow 123 at 04:29 on Saturday morning take the 04:47 Piccadilly train to South Kensington and change to the District line to Upminster arriving at 06:39 on the previous day's cap ?

 

[rebmcr]

So you can tap in at Heathrow 123 at 04:29 on Saturday morning take the 04:47 Piccadilly train to South Kensington and change to the District line to Upminster arriving at 06:39 on the previous day's cap ?

You would actually have until 07:39 to touch out, based on the maximum journey time across 11 zones "not between 04:30 and 19:00" — I seriously doubt that would be based on anything other than touch-in time either.

Edit: In fact, if the 04:29 touch in is on "Sunday night", you would have until 07:54 to touch out!

 

[robbeech]

Dare i ask how day travelcards work here. You enter the system at 0420 on your day travelcard. What happens at 0445 when you leave?

 

[Via Bank]

Dare i ask how day travelcards work here. You enter the system at 0420 on your day travelcard. What happens at 0445 when you leave?

The barrier may reject your ticket, but the barrier staff should let you out (if the gates aren't open already.)

 

[miami]

Will the staff let you through with OSI?

 

[Mojo]

Will the staff let you through with OSI?

OSIs are only for Oyster/Contactless, and these work automatically, and will continue with the previous day's journey.

 

[robbeech]

OSIs are only for Oyster/Contactless, and these work automatically, and will continue with the previous day's journey.

Whilst it is all at this point incredibly academic,

Maybe what Paul was referring to was a manual check with a Day Travelcard AFTER an OSI.
Say i enter the system with a Friday Day travelcard at 0427 on Saturday at a station served by the night tube, and i come out somewhere (clearly after 0429) at a station on the OSI list. The ticket may be rejected in the machines on the way out but staff should as you say let me through. However, i haven't finished my journey and i wish to go through more gates which is acceptable as an OSI interchange and would be charged as one journey. The ticket would again be rejected by the machines but would (and indeed SHOULD) staff there allow you to continue your journey to your final destination given it is one journey and the entire OSI interchange concept was created for this very purpose?

 

[miami]

Whilst it is all at this point incredibly academic,

Maybe what Paul was referring to was a manual check with a Day Travelcard AFTER an OSI.
Say i enter the system with a Friday Day travelcard at 0427 on Saturday at a station served by the night tube, and i come out somewhere (clearly after 0429) at a station on the OSI list. The ticket may be rejected in the machines on the way out but staff should as you say let me through. However, i haven't finished my journey and i wish to go through more gates which is acceptable as an OSI interchange and would be charged as one journey. The ticket would again be rejected by the machines but would (and indeed SHOULD) staff there allow you to continue your journey to your final destination given it is one journey and the entire OSI interchange concept was created for this very purpose?

Indeed, for example 04:29 from Heathrow, out about 05:20 at Hammersmith, over the road to the H&C, in there at 05:25, out of Baker Street 05:55ish and into Marylebone 06:05ish to get the 06:20 to Wembley Stadium. OK, a crazy route, and very contrived, but would you get through the barriers at Hammersmith, let alone Marylebone?

 

[Mutant Lemming]

So people can now actually 'live' on the tube from Friday morning to Sunday night ?

 

[Mojo]

Indeed, for example 04:29 from Heathrow, out about 05:20 at Hammersmith, over the road to the H&C, in there at 05:25, out of Baker Street 05:55ish and into Marylebone 06:05ish to get the 06:20 to Wembley Stadium. OK, a crazy route, and very contrived, but would you get through the barriers at Hammersmith, let alone Marylebone?

As far as I'm aware the only LU station that has any sort of recognition for passing outside of barriers using paper tickets is Hammersmith (although Kings + has an arrangement for customers interchanging between the Tube and Subsurface lines who require step-free access as the only step-free route requires you to exit and re-enter in the Western (Met) ticket hall).

 

[miami]

In addition to Hammersmith and Kings Cross, Euston Square - Euston LU, Paddington H&C - Paddington Bakerloo/District, and White City - Wood Lane, all appear to be "Magnetic & payg" between two LU platforms according to "Out-of-Station Interchanges" November 13th 2016.

 

[Kite159]

As far as I'm aware the only LU station that has any sort of recognition for passing outside of barriers using paper tickets is Hammersmith (although Kings + has an arrangement for customers interchanging between the Tube and Subsurface lines who require step-free access as the only step-free route requires you to exit and re-enter in the Western (Met) ticket hall).

What about Bank when you exit the gateline outside the W&C line to re-enter to gain access to the other lines? (assuming the subway is still closed)

 

[DPQ]

What about Bank when you exit the gateline outside the W&C line to re-enter to gain access to the other lines? (assuming the subway is still closed)

The Subway has reopened.

 

[miami]

What about Bank when you exit the gateline outside the W&C line to re-enter to gain access to the other lines? (assuming the subway is still closed)

Yes, that's listed. You get 15 minutes with PAYG, but 25 minutes with magnetic tickets.

Waterloo to Waterloo though doesn't have such an OSI for magnetic tickets, only for PAYG.

 

[bb21]

Dare i ask how day travelcards work here. You enter the system at 0420 on your day travelcard. What happens at 0445 when you leave?

Day Travelcards expire at 0430. If you exit at 0445, you will be liable for a Penalty Fare where applicable.

There may be some local easements, but the general rules remain as stated above.

The only explicit exception is for travel on buses, where the only requirement is that the journey starts at or before 0429.

 

[bluegoblin7]

Day Travelcards expire at 0430. If you exit at 0445, you will be liable for a Penalty Fare where applicable.

There may be some local easements, but the general rules remain as stated above.

The only explicit exception is for travel on buses, where the only requirement is that the journey starts at or before 0429.

The same "easement" on buses applies to all TfL Night Tube services - as long as the journey is commenced before 0429 it will be charged/accepted as part of that traffic day, even if it finishes after the expiry.

 

[bb21]

The same "easement" on buses applies to all TfL Night Tube services - as long as the journey is commenced before 0429 it will be charged/accepted as part of that traffic day, even if it finishes after the expiry.

What you are saying is essentially that they will be allowed out of the system once in, if I understand correctly?

 

[bluegoblin7]

What you are saying is essentially that they will be allowed out of the system once in, if I understand correctly?

Correct. Sorry, I should have made myself clearer.

Out-of-station-interchanges are also included in this arrangement, although with magnetic/paper tickets this might raise eyebrows if it's some time beyond 0429.

 

[bb21]

Correct. Sorry, I should have made myself clearer.

Out-of-station-interchanges are also included in this arrangement, although with magnetic/paper tickets this might raise eyebrows if it's some time beyond 0429.

Good to know. Very sensible.

 

[Taunton]

I was curious last weekend when the clocks went forward. How does the Night Tube manage when the clocks change?

Is the same interval service just run for an extra or a less hour? If so this must cause all sorts of rostering issues, especially with routes about an hour long end-to-end, which would only be time for another single journey rather than return to base. And when the clocks go forward, does the shift lose an hour's pay?

 

[Busaholic]

I was curious last weekend when the clocks went forward. How does the Night Tube manage when the clocks change?

Is the same interval service just run for an extra or a less hour? If so this must cause all sorts of rostering issues, especially with routes about an hour long end-to-end, which would only be time for another single journey rather than return to base. And when the clocks go forward, does the shift lose an hour's pay?

I'd like to imagine that when the clocks go back, wherever the train is it has to reverse back to its starting point and commence the journey for a second time.

On the pay issue, I bet they don't get an extra hour's worth when the clocks go back, so equally wouldn't lose out when they spring forward, swings and roundabouts style. I'm probably wrong, though, and there'll be some complicated rigmarole.