15/08/17 Waterloo derailment and disruption (latter likely to continue to 16/8)

[Antman]

Just taking a check on this idea of running Exeter services to and from Reading, it appears that it was abandoned and they ran into Waterloo for the rest of the day (on time even) ), so it was not such a catastrophe as was at first thought.

I'm surprised, everything out of Waterloo is delayed at the moment. The 18.08 to Exeter left at 18.40.

 

[GW43125]

The BBC have been repeatedly calling the incident a "partial derailment" - have we really got to the point where, if a train derails but not every single one of the wheels is in the ballast, it's now called a "partial derailment"?! It's either a derailment or it's not - or are we now in the territory of "almost unique"?! Good grief.

It was on SWT journey check this morning as "a low speed, partial derailment". Talk about using words unnecessarily.

 

[Antman]

It was on SWT journey check this morning as "a low speed, partial derailment". Talk about using words unnecessarily.

Surely that's exactly what it was?

Am I missing something here?

 

[dctraindriver]

Absolutely what could a signaller be doing... well apart from drinking tea, eating a bacon sarnie, reading the paper, maybe even popping outside for a smoke?

Or perhaps it might be one of the following... Dealing with a more important incident somewhere else on their panel, even us signallers only have two hands. Unable to clear protecting signal, unable to get down detection at crossing, loss of picture, loss of crossing controls. Traffic queueing over crossing, a person could of fallen over on the crossing, youths or kids fooling around on the crossing (happened to me the other day, kept standing under the descending barriers.) Level crossings are a signallers nightmare! :eek:

Well said.

 

[3141]

"Partial derailment" probably means that only a small percentage of the train came off the rails. Designed to reassure us that it isn't a major incident.

"Total derailment" should then be reserved for a situation in which every coach, or every bogie, or even every wheel, is off the rails. This will rarely be the case on a train of several coaches.

"Derailment" would then refer to a train on which some wheels have derailed, and probably where it's a more serious incident, having occurred at speed, and/or with some injuries or fatalities.

But you can't expect the press, or anyone else really, to use terms with precision, especially when the simple term "derailment" can mean something very minor or a catastrophe.

 

[spark001uk]

...loss of picture, loss of crossing controls...

...or loss of crossing barriers when some loon drives straight through them, as also happened last week! :eek:

 

[Darandio]

It was on SWT journey check this morning as "a low speed, partial derailment". Talk about using words unnecessarily.

So we had a big discussion (again) a few weeks ago on this forum about not enough information being given out, or the wrong information.

Now here we have a case in your quote where it seems to be entirely the correct information, but this is a problem too?

 

[spark001uk]

How are they going to recover this unit - attempt to re-rail it?

I was just thinking about this - have any wheels actually hit the dirt, or has it just lifted the body on one side? In which case (and it would technically not be a derailment then?), if the wagons were slowly driven towards the station, would the body not just naturally release and drop back down?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The incident of tresspassing at Fratton can't be helping:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/169482.aspx

The trespass incident at Fratton has ended allowing all lines to reopen. Residual delays of up to 60 minutes, alterations and cancellations can be expected as the service returns to normal.

Disruption is expected to continue until the end of service.

Customer Advice:
Whilst the British Transport Police and railway response teams responded to apprehend the person, all lines were blocked, however, the lines have now reopened.

To reduce the delays to trains, some services may have to be altered or revised at short notice. Some services may also be diverted via an alternative route.

 

[infobleep]

Somebody posted a 'before' and 'after' webcam shot over in the main 'Waterloo Blockade' thread over in Infrastructure.



Interesting, looks like the 66 moved slightly - couple of feet maybe? - because of the incident.

It's a shame they switched the cameras off. I was enjoying the time relapse stuff.

 

[Chris M]

In which case it would presumably be fairly easy to walk one passenger along the track to safety.

Assuming the passenger is able-bodied and uninjured.

 

[GW43125]

Surely that's exactly what it was?

Am I missing something here?

Would the word "derailment" not suffice? One word and entirely factual.

 

[ainsworth74]

Assuming the passenger is able-bodied and uninjured.

Well considering that they walked all the way along an otherwise empty train it seems reasonable to assume that they're able-bodied and there are no reported injuries so it seems a very reasonable assumption to make to me!

 

[Antman]

Would the word "derailment" not suffice? One word and entirely factual.

Not really, it conjures up images of something like Grayrigg. Why not explain that the train was going slowly and only part of it was derailed? I really don't see what the problem is quite honestly.

 

[ijmad]

It's a shame they switched the cameras off. I was enjoying the time relapse stuff.

They're still recording images if you just tweak the URL a little.

Latest shot - looks like they've rerailed the train.

 

[GW43125]

Not really, it conjures up images of something like Grayrigg. Why not explain that the train was going slowly and only part of it was derailed? I really don't see what the problem is quite honestly.

Would it not have been more appropriate to put it in the paragraph below the headline, as surely headlines are supposed to be short?

 

[OxtedL]

Somebody posted a 'before' and 'after' webcam shot over in the main 'Waterloo Blockade' thread over in Infrastructure.



Interesting, looks like the 66 moved slightly - couple of feet maybe? - because of the incident.

Looks they've split the barrier train apart to give them access to the derailed train in the last hour or so.
http://sentry.og2.co.uk/images/ICE00012/2017-08-15/ICE00012-2017-08-15_190500.jpg
http://sentry.og2.co.uk/images/ICE00012/2017-08-15/ICE00012-2017-08-15_200500.jpg

 

[nlogax]

Just leaving Waterloo now. Lots of attention around the stricken unit, presumably to re-rail it. As far as I can see there's still some work ongoing at the other platforms but not a great deal (from this perspective anyway) .

 

[ijmad]

Looks they've split the barrier train apart to give them access to the derailed train in the last hour or so.
http://sentry.og2.co.uk/images/ICE00012/2017-08-15/ICE00012-2017-08-15_190500.jpg
http://sentry.og2.co.uk/images/ICE00012/2017-08-15/ICE00012-2017-08-15_200500.jpg

Looks to me like the train itself was rerailed between 18:15 and 18:25, before they moved the barrier train:

18:15
18:16
18:17
18:18
18:19
18:20
18:21
18:22
18:23
18:24
18:25

I would guess now they're inspecting it to see if it can be moved easily, and damage to the line? Hence the move of the barrier train so they can see the axles?

 

[spark001uk]

How are they going to recover this unit - attempt to re-rail it?

I was just thinking about this - have any wheels actually hit the dirt, or has it just lifted the body on one side? In which case (and it would technically not be a derailment then?), if the wagons were slowly driven towards the station, would the body not just naturally release and drop back down??
.
EDIT: As above, but change it all to past tense!

 

[spark001uk]

Looks to me like the train itself was rerailed between 18:15 and 18:25, before they moved the barrier train...

Interesting that from the first and last photos it looks to me like it was sorted without moving either train forward or back, so they can't have been wedged together that hard? I might be wrong.

 

[ijmad]

Interesting that from the first and last photos it looks to me like it was sorted without moving either train forward or back, so they can't have been wedged together that hard? I might be wrong.

Agreed - I have no idea what current Network Rail practice is for re-railing a train partially out of a platform - but I'm sure someone around these parts knows! Unfortunately the camera doesn't seem to have captured any shots with people or equipment in them.

 

[Cletus]

I haven't seen this posted (which probably means it has)

https://twitter.com/networkrailPR/status/897508517283864576

LIVE at #LondonWaterloo: Mark Carne, chief executive of @NetworkRail inspects work to re-rail train.

 

[infobleep]

Just taking a check on this idea of running Exeter services to and from Reading, it appears that it was abandoned and they ran into Waterloo for the rest of the day (on time even) ), so it was not such a catastrophe as was at first thought.

Amazing how they were able to get into Waterloo on time, given so many other delays.

I couldn't decide which station to head tonight but eventually ended up at New Malden. Shortly after I arrived a train pull in and away I went. I can't came to have been delayed but the train itself was just the small matter of 50 minutes late.

Then there was a trespass incident in the Portsmouth area, leaving to up to 60 minute delays down there.

I often wonder if your travelling through or to areas of separate incidents, does one combine both delays to get the full up to figure that might affect you or do you run them side by side?

 

[OxtedL]

The entire down service is queuing back into Waterloo at present, as the only access for anything going to/from the Main lines is the 20mph single ladder just to the southwest of Queenstown Road. (So all down trains and all up main trains must wait their turn.)

If that's still the case in the morning then tomorrow is going to be a bit of a nightmare.

 

[hwl]

Agreed - I have no idea what current Network Rail practice is for re-railing a train partially out of a platform - but I'm sure someone around these parts knows! Unfortunately the camera doesn't seem to have captured any shots with people or equipment in them.

If you look at Ngloax's photo in post 168 at 2026 just above, you can see the beam they put across the track to enable lift and slide, a jack in front of the train some wooden packing blocks, the yellow plastic 3rd rail covers and the generator to power the jacks in 5 second glance...

 

[bb21]

Tomorrow is very likely to be disrupted, let's just say.

 

[DarloRich]

Just leaving Waterloo now. Lots of attention around the stricken unit, presumably to re-rail it. As far as I can see there's still some work ongoing at the other platforms but not a great deal (from this perspective anyway) .

no crane - jack and pack job?

 

[swt_passenger]

no crane - jack and pack job?

Cranes are apparently something of a last resort nowadays. I read an article about the subject a while ago that said the typical railway breakdown crane of the past wasn't worth having nowadays, because derailments are so few and far between, and the vast majority are now re-railed by jacking.

Back when there were loads of cranes all over the network they were collectively dealing with thousands of incidents per year...

The few big cranes around are completely booked up on specific infrastructure tasks.

 

[DarloRich]

Cranes are apparently something of a last resort nowadays. I read an article about the subject a while ago that said the typical railway breakdown crane of the past wasn't worth having nowadays, because derailments are so few and far between, and the vast majority are now re-railed by jacking.

Back when there were loads of cranes all over the network they were collectively dealing with thousands of incidents per year...

The few big cranes around are completely booked up on specific infrastructure tasks.

They aren't all booked up but you are correct enougth