Cumbrian Coast Loco Hauled Stock

[Whistler40145]

This may be a silly question, but why don't the loco's just run round ?

The places these trains terminate are Preston, Lancaster and Carlisle, all of which have plenty of through loops, and Barrow, which has three through platforms which surely aren't going to all be occupied at the same time.

The reason for using the DBSO is to eliminate the need for running round the 37, if it was required to run round the stock, extra time would be needed to ensure that there's no conflicting moves and not blocking lines up.

 

[yorksrob]

The reason for using the DBSO is to eliminate the need for running round the 37, if it was required to run round the stock, extra time would be needed to ensure that there's no conflicting moves and not blocking lines up.

I'm sure all those things aren't ideal, but with some timetabling adjustments, surely they're not insurmountable either. I remember watching loco's run round in Reading, which must have been more of a challenge even fifteen years ago.

Perhaps less problematic than having trains fail on a frequent basis.

 

[47802]

Ah, OK, cheers.

Probably the easiest way to improve the overall service (at the cost of a change for some passengers), then, would be to run 319 Flex in a "perfect clockface" hourly service from (Manchester-)Lancaster-Barrow, and have a few dedicated Class 156s based at Barrow to run the Coast as a separate service.

I would imagine that when all the new and cascaded stock arrives 156's will be the standard train for the Cumbrian Coast, but of course in the mean time either sort out the reliability issues on the Loco Hauled or find another solution.

 

[Whistler40145]

Are 156s cleared for the whole Cumbrian Coast line?

 

[PHILIPE]

Are 156s cleared for the whole Cumbrian Coast line?

Yes.. They are the most usual traction.

 

[Whistler40145]

Thanks for your information.

 

[30907]

This may be a silly question, but why don't the loco's just run round ?

The places these trains terminate are Preston, Lancaster and Carlisle, all of which have plenty of through loops, and Barrow, which has three through platforms which surely aren't going to all be occupied at the same time.

There are tight turnrounds which can't easily be adjusted on a part-single line like the Coast.

Carlisle would be OK for running round, but Barrow has only two through platforms and a Carlisle-facing bay which makes running round there inconvenient.

 

[yorksrob]

There are tight turnrounds which can't easily be adjusted on a part-single line like the Coast.

Carlisle would be OK for running round, but Barrow has only two through platforms and a Carlisle-facing bay which makes running round there inconvenient.

My mistake - I always assumed the most Northerly platform was a loop !

 

[bb21]

I'm sure all those things aren't ideal, but with some timetabling adjustments, surely they're not insurmountable either. I remember watching loco's run round in Reading, which must have been more of a challenge even fifteen years ago.

Perhaps less problematic than having trains fail on a frequent basis.

You then have more things that can potentially go wrong, especially with ancient stock.

If you don't need to tamper with the formation away from the depot, don't.

At Preston, the train only has a 27-minute turnaround. Take a large chunk out if you run the loco around via, I assume, the goods loop, and then you have very little mitigation against any late running, which I believe can occur quite frequently.

Similarly at Carlisle the train often has a short turnaround of around 10 minutes, not really possible to run the loco around.

 

[yorksrob]

You then have more things that can potentially go wrong, especially with ancient stock.

If you don't need to tamper with the formation away from the depot, don't.

Talking of your neck of the woods, its a shame there aren't a couple of 33's and TC sets spare for it

 

[bb21]

Talking of your neck of the woods, its a shame there aren't a couple of 33's and TC sets spare for it

You mean you want to give me more work than what I already have?

 

[yorksrob]

You mean you want to give me more work than what I already have?

Keep you on your toes

 

[PHILIPE]

The 37s have been falling down right left and centre recently. It has been posted on Frequently Requested Diagrams thread that the turns have been suspended.

 

[yorksrob]

The 37s have been falling down right left and centre recently. It has been posted on Frequently Requested Diagrams thread that the turns have been suspended.

I wonder if DRS have a back up plan, since they're presumably in contract to supply something.

 

[47802]

The 37s have been falling down right left and centre recently. It has been posted on Frequently Requested Diagrams thread that the turns have been suspended.

According to WNXX suspended until after the Northern strikes with a view that DRS might actually fix a couple of 37's to last a few days without breaking down

 

[70014IronDuke]

The 37s have been falling down right left and centre recently. It has been posted on Frequently Requested Diagrams thread that the turns have been suspended.

It's true that the Cl 37 trains have had a bunch of failures recently - but other trains and track (failed points) seem to have contributed to chaos, with numerous cancellations in the past fortnight. Overall, a terrible performance, however - must be very damaging in terms of passenger confidence.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Its such a shame really as all staff involved in this opperation work so so hard and when it works propperly its fabulous.

With the good weather there will be plenty walkers out tomorrow who will now be bustituted or crammed ontoa pacer, particularly on the 11:566x Carlisle which gets lots of walkers after Barrow.

 

[43096]

Its such a shame really as all staff involved in this opperation work so so hard and when it works propperly its fabulous.

When? You mean if - and it is a big if.

Oh yes, the staff all work hard. Whatever. The service has been appalling, and DRS's ability to make it work has been completely lacking - the issues have been going on from the start of the contract.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I had an entire day on the LHCS earlier this year and not 1 glitch. Full trains, nice guards, happy punters and the 37 sang beutifully

 

[a_c_skinner]

Well in the context of the locohauled service, they are to all intents and purposes not cleared, as they could not operate the service as it stands!

Not seeking to disagree, I am intrigued by the process.

Do you simply mean they cannot operate with the coaching stock?

Can a locomotive be cleared for a route to haul some stock but not others? Is this a common state of affairs? Is it a technicality easily overcome or a serious practical issue?

Is new stock cleared for routes in a blanket process with troublesome routes addressed specially or do they need to be cleared specifically for every route.

I'd say this is off topic, but clearances are a specific issue on the north of the Cumbrian Coast and there isn't (to me, a duffle bag, anorak, Thermos and ABC enthusiast) an easily discernible logic, especially when you look at DMUs passed for this route or not in the sectional appendix.

All this is moot because these locomotives are plainly far too costly to simply potter up and down the coast.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A more sensible approach would be the joined up one of more Mk3s on ATW/Chiltern to release DMUs for a cascade to give Northern more Pacers/153s/156s to use on the Coast.

 

[47802]

I had an entire day on the LHCS earlier this year and not 1 glitch. Full trains, nice guards, happy punters and the 37 sang beutifully

Wow the 37's managed an entire day without breaking down lucky you.

Ive been up their probably around 15 times since they started running, experienced 1 failure while on the train, 1 cancellation, and 2 DMU substitutions, but its hardly a scientific observation.

The point overall performance over the past weeks has gone from not particularly good to unacceptable.

 

[Whistler40145]

I hope DRS can pull out all the stops and get the 37s fixed quickly.

 

[47802]

I hope DRS can pull out all the stops and get the 37s fixed quickly.

My view is the Dft need to intervene and direct released rolling stock from Blackpool Electrification to the Cumbrian coast even if it means delaying some of the planned improved timetables on some of Northern's other routes, after all it was the Dft that essentially forced this solution on Northern.

 

[CosherB]

I hope DRS can pull out all the stops and get the 37s fixed quickly.

Well the DRS solution at the moment seems to be throwing yet more 37s at the problem. 37716 has been modified so it can work t-a-t at GA and 37409 has been authorised an 'F' exam at Loram.

Meanwhile 37407 still languishes at Derby .... :roll:

 

[Whistler40145]

Glad to hear that 37409 has been granted her F Exam.

Unfortunately, it seems to me that 37407 & 37424 were a complete waste of money.

 

[QueensCurve]

It's true that the Cl 37 trains have had a bunch of failures recently - but other trains and track (failed points) seem to have contributed to chaos, with numerous cancellations in the past fortnight. Overall, a terrible performance, however - must be very damaging in terms of passenger confidence.

It has been very bad of the last 2 weeks or so.

I spotted a bus pretending to be a train going down Lowther St, Whitehaven last Wednesday. I was standing in for 2C41 14:37 Barrow to Carlisle which was is a very important service for Sellafield commuters (15:47 off Sellafield). The buss was packed full of pax who by that time had been delayed about 90 mins. They would not have been happy bunnies.

 

[joshy.fre_2003]

Speaking to a dispatcher at Lancaster the other day, he said the Workington drivers hate them and will try to fail them over the smallest of things and that (from when we were having this conversation) the set only ran once out of 7 days down to Preston supposedly and that if it carries on any longer they'll be gone by winter. Sadly, I'd imagine most if not all of that to be true, I've had my fair share of 156's showing up on 37 diagrams and seen it happen to others, hope things improve with them!

 

[joshy.fre_2003]

He also said that some DBSO's only work with certain 37's and vice versa, apparently it's very little known about and little recorded so when the sets are assembled at night they've just got to hope it works come morning.

 

[Whistler40145]

I bet DRS wished they had stock and DVT fitted with AAR multiple working to enable the service to be operated by 68s