Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[NotATrainspott]

You've got to remember that the nature of Scottish political life is that a large chunk of the nation's elected representatives are from the more populous west central Scotland, while Edinburgh is the seat of the parliament and the executive.

Glasgow is also close enough to Edinburgh that many politicians will come through to Edinburgh for the day rather than having second homes / hotel stays.

So if you total up the relevant constituencies there are the best part of 35 Scottish Parliament Constituency members and 20 regional list members who will be using Class 385s to get to work. That is almost half of the parliament so naturally the Edinburgh - Glasgow route is much more politically noticeable than a similar 4tph 50 minute journey time route elsewhere in the UK.

Any individual route into London will only have a small number of politicians travelling onto it so nowhere else has quite the same political pressure as the E-G does.

Here's something to think about. How many ScotRail services don't call at Edinburgh Waverley, Glasgow Central or Glasgow Queen Street? Just the Far North and Inverness-Aberdeen trains? ScotRail is incredibly Central Belt-centric, because Scotland itself is. The number of trains which politicians and civil servants in Glasgow and Edinburgh would have to go out of their way to sample is tiny. The services they can't see is so comparatively small that it's not worth handling them that separately. In England there are plenty of trains which don't go anywhere near London, and they're almost always the ones which people complain about the most. Someone working in transport policymaking circles has really very little reason to go from one regional place to another, as London is the centre of their universe. They might have meetings in Manchester and in Leeds, but rarely without a trip back to Great Minster House in between.

 

[Altnabreac]

Here's something to think about. How many ScotRail services don't call at Edinburgh Waverley, Glasgow Central or Glasgow Queen Street? Just the Far North and Inverness-Aberdeen trains? ScotRail is incredibly Central Belt-centric, because Scotland itself is. The number of trains which politicians and civil servants in Glasgow and Edinburgh would have to go out of their way to sample is tiny. The services they can't see is so comparatively small that it's not worth handling them that separately. In England there are plenty of trains which don't go anywhere near London, and they're almost always the ones which people complain about the most. Someone working in transport policymaking circles has really very little reason to go from one regional place to another, as London is the centre of their universe. They might have meetings in Manchester and in Leeds, but rarely without a trip back to Great Minster House in between.

A good point.

For the sake of completeness there are also Kilmarnock/Ayr - Girvan/Stranraer services, Dumfries - Carlisle, some early morning Perth/Dundee - Aberdeen services and the Oban - Dalmally school train.

But it must be over 90% of Scotrail services that call at one of those three stations.

 

[Clansman]

 

[Bletchleyite]

That really looks rather good. The very rounded windows give it an oddly 1970s look, though.

 

[Typhoon_93]

Do you have any other interior shots..?

 

[380101]

Had I missed the fact that there will only be First Class at one end - I had assumed both ends, like the 170's? Doesn't look like there will be as much First Class accommodation in future?

Both ends of the 385 1xx units (4 cars) will have first class seating. I look forward to the constant complaints from the first class season ticket holders when the great unwashed come traipsing through first class to get to a toilet after using the gangway corridors to dodge the conductor! Gangway corridors will have looked great on paper at transport Scotland but obviously the person who demanded they be fitted doesn't have a first class pass or season ticket and didn't foresee the issues that will arise once the high and mighty elite of Scotland start complaining about getting their morning routine of reading the Scotsman and Telegraph interrupted constantly by the "lower classes" walking through 1st class.

 

[jopsuk]

they'll live, there's plenty of south east england stock where 1st is mid-unit or that has corridor connections and the high and mighty down here are far worse than on the Edinburgh-Glasgow express.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Both ends of the 385 1xx units (4 cars) will have first class seating. I look forward to the constant complaints from the first class season ticket holders when the great unwashed come traipsing through first class to get to a toilet after using the gangway corridors to dodge the conductor! Gangway corridors will have looked great on paper at transport Scotland but obviously the person who demanded they be fitted doesn't have a first class pass or season ticket and didn't foresee the issues that will arise once the high and mighty elite of Scotland start complaining about getting their morning routine of reading the Scotsman and Telegraph interrupted constantly by the "lower classes" walking through 1st class.

The photo on the previous page seems to indicate that there's only one first class section though? Unless they just hadn't got around to putting on the yellow vinyls at both, which seems unlikely as the whole train is properly liveried otherwise.

 

[47271]

My understanding is that there will be one First Class section occupying the cab and centre sections of the end car of each four car unit. Both end cars would mean that the trains would have almost as much First as Standard.

So the traipsing through First by Standard passengers will only occur when an 8 car set is connected by its First Class end or ends.

 

[IanXC]

Which does nearly suggest that the ideal formation for these in multiple would be first at the outer ends...

Clearly easier said than done!

 

[Typhoon_93]

385104 outside the Test shed at Aycliffe showing more of the first class vinyls.

 

[Clansman]

Thanks for sharing - the first class branding really is odd, I must admit.

If the launch of the 385s into passenger service is akin to that of the GWR 800s, The Scotsman will have a field day with that 'Express' logo.

Do you have any other interior shots..?

It was only the one photo I posted - it looks like the new forum is struggling with trying to post attachments.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What *is* it with silly first class branding? Is someone paid specifically to make it up with the aim of a combination of making liveries look stupid and confusing people?

What is wrong with the standard (!) of a yellow cantrail stripe and large 1s by the doors?

At least it's actually yellow I suppose.

 

[380101]

The photo on the previous page seems to indicate that there's only one first class section though? Unless they just hadn't got around to putting on the yellow vinyls at both, which seems unlikely as the whole train is properly liveried otherwise.

Having done a wee bit of trawling back through this thread and a bit of googling it seems it will only be First class in one driving coach - the area behind the cab and the centre section as mentioned above. It will still cause issues if the sets are not coupled up with the A end to A end resulting in first being split up if an 8 car set. They won't be able to run the sets with the First class ends always towards Edinburgh or A end to A end all the time as the sets will need turned to even out the wear on the wheels. 2 more seats in First on the 385/1 compared to a class 170 so an extra 2 punters will get a seat in First!

 

[170401]

What *is* it with silly first class branding? Is someone paid specifically to make it up with the aim of a combination of making liveries look stupid and confusing people?



What is wrong with the standard (!) of a yellow cantrail stripe and large 1s by the doors?

At least it's actually yellow I suppose.

I actually quite like it. Makes it very obvious which section ia first class. Cantrail stripes arent always that obvious to the less observant, and their are a lot of very unobservant people travelling on this route in first with standard class tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They won't be able to run the sets with the First class ends always towards Edinburgh or A end to A end all the time as the sets will need turned to even out the wear on the wheels.

Pendolinos are all the same way round, as were the Silverlink 321s.

 

[MCR247]

As are VTEC sets and Great Northern 387s

 

[jamieintercity]

Heard that one of the 385s made to Glasgow QST in the early hours of this morning before returning to Edinburgh

 

[scotraildriver]

It certainly did! At last. An ongoing issue though is that the curved windcreen is causing drivers to see double signal aspects when they are single. Double green and double red is ok but seeing 2 yellows when it's single is a serious problem.

 

[380101]

It certainly did! At last. An ongoing issue though is that the curved windcreen is causing drivers to see double signal aspects when they are single. Double green and double red is ok but seeing 2 yellows when it's single is a serious problem.

A direct consequence of having to fudge a gangway onto a cab that was not designed to have one. The 380 doesn't have this problem due to the flat windscreens. This will end up being a costly problem to rectify. It will be interesting to see what they come up with to solve it. Can't imagine many drivers being happy to put up with it. Be interesting to see what the Company Council guys think of the problem.

 

[ScottDarg]

Here's a video posted on ScotRail's social media feeds: https://twitter.com/ScotRail/status/925737486126600192?s=09

And associated press release:

Passengers who travel on the Edinburgh to Glasgow mainline are another step closer to new electric trains, as the ScotRail Alliance successfully tested one of its new trains along the full route this morning.

One of the new Hitachi Class 385 electric trains travelled between Edinburgh Waverley and Glasgow Queen Street at 00:30 hours on Wednesday 1 November.

This follows a successful trial of the infrastructure between Edinburgh and Linlithgow in the early hours of Wednesday 18 October 2017.

Full testing of the trains and the infrastructure along the route will continue for several weeks.

When the new trains enter passenger service they will deliver faster journeys, more seats and better services for customers travelling between Scotland’s two biggest cities, and will then be rolled out to other routes in the central belt.

ScotRail Alliance Programmes and Transformation Director Ian McConnell, said:

“This morning’s trial was a massive step towards the introduction of electric passenger trains on the newly electrified Edinburgh to Glasgow mainline. Having a train run successfully along the full route shows real progress.

“We are building the best railway that Scotland has ever had. When our brand new, state of the art, electric fleet enter service, customers will reap immense benefits. With more seats and faster journeys on cleaner, greener trains, the new trains will completely transform travel between our two biggest cities, and across the Central Belt.”

Hitachi Rail Europe Programme Manager Andy Radford, said:

“We are really pleased that our new trains can now be tested on the newly electrified Edinburgh to Glasgow routes. We will continue to work closely with the ScotRail Alliance to ensure the trains deliver the benefits to future passengers as soon as possible.”

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/about-sc...ow-electrification-enters-final-phase-testing

I also noticed at the bottom under the usual info for the 385s, it mentions that they're planned to run on Lanark services. Is this right? I've never noticed it before now.

 

[ScottDarg]

This piece on Rail Engineer regarding the building of the 385s may be of interest: https://www.railengineer.uk/2017/11/01/building-scotrails-385s/

 

[380101]

Here's a video posted on ScotRail's social media feeds: https://twitter.com/ScotRail/status/925737486126600192?s=09

And associated press release:



https://www.scotrail.co.uk/about-sc...ow-electrification-enters-final-phase-testing

I also noticed at the bottom under the usual info for the 385s, it mentions that they're planned to run on Lanark services. Is this right? I've never noticed it before now.

they're certainly going to be running on routes that 314s currently serve as the 385/0s are replacing the 314s on the Southside. 314s don't run to Lanark, only 318s and 320s from Glasgow Central. No idea if 334s make it that far as I don't work that route or sign 334/318/314/320

 

[ScottDarg]

they're certainly going to be running on routes that 314s currently serve as the 385/0s are replacing the 314s on the Southside. 314s don't run to Lanark, only 318s and 320s from Glasgow Central. No idea if 334s make it that far as I don't work that route or sign 334/318/314/320

This pic (not mine): https://www.flickr.com/photos/93910018@N02/14006088462/ shows 334s have worked Lanark at some point, date taken below the image is 2010 so they must've done when Lanark still went through Low Level. Only traction I've seen recently on Lanark is 318s/320s, as you say.

Assuming it's correct and Lanark is getting 385s, I imagine it'll be amongst the last to get them, alongside Glasgow - Edinburgh via Carstairs which I've also seen mentioned in ScotRail press materials.

 

[380101]

This piece on Rail Engineer regarding the building of the 385s may be of interest: https://www.railengineer.uk/2017/11/01/building-scotrails-385s/

Interesting to read that the 385/0 - the 3 car units will only have 3 powered bogies unlike its 380/0 counterpart which has both bogies on both driving cars powered.

 

[Clansman]

Here's the video contained in the posted link:

 

[Mag_seven]

As a native Glaswegian I feel a little bit of history being made there with the first ever electric into Glasgow Queen St High Level. I'm going to make an effort to be on the first 385 in passenger service into QS!

 

[Clansman]

As a native Glaswegian I feel a little bit of history being made there with the first ever electric into Glasgow Queen St High Level. I'm going to make an effort to be on the first 385 in passenger service into QS!

Just mind and bring your umbrella

 

[route101]

As a native Glaswegian I feel a little bit of history being made there with the first ever electric into Glasgow Queen St High Level. I'm going to make an effort to be on the first 385 in passenger service into QS!

It weird seeing Queen St with wire s, to me Queen St is not a station you linger .Central is much more interesting . Guesswork for first 385 in pax service or 380s in first

 

[route101]

This pic (not mine): https://www.flickr.com/photos/93910018@N02/14006088462/ shows 334s have worked Lanark at some point, date taken below the image is 2010 so they must've done when Lanark still went through Low Level. Only traction I've seen recently on Lanark is 318s/320s, as you say.

Assuming it's correct and Lanark is getting 385s, I imagine it'll be amongst the last to get them, alongside Glasgow - Edinburgh via Carstairs which I've also seen mentioned in ScotRail press materials.

Not certain but there may of been a 334 on the Lanark run last year .I remember one at Central High Level but it could of been on a Motherwell service . 334s still on some Glasgow Central Low levels .
Im sure 314s were used to Lanark when engineering work meant Newton services were extended .They deffo went to Larkhall and 314s are stabled at Motherwell