Will the Blackpool South line be electrified?

[cool2005]

hi will Blackpool South be electrified?

 

[MG11]

There are no plans currently. I heard that Blackpool North might be though.

 

[Ianno87]

There are no plans currently. I heard that Blackpool North might be though.

No "might" about it. It's now closed until March for that very reason (see Blackpool-Manchester electrification thread)

 

[55z]

Whats this about might. Blackpool North WILL be electrifield most of the poles from Preston are up except around, Kirkham, Layton, Poulton & Blackpool North, Blackpool North is now closed to passenger trains until the end of March, Preston to Blackpool South will reopen at the end of January and will NOT be electrified on the branch from Kirkham to Blackpool South.

 

[Elecman]

Blackpool South isn’t being electrified although there are mooted plans for tramsor tram trains to run to Lytham from around Pleasure Beach

 

[edwin_m]

At present the Blackpool South trains run through to Colne so there would be no point in electrifying it unless Colne was electrified too, or the service was split at Preston, or bi-modes were used. Even with a split at Preston and taking account of the elimination of "under the wires" running east of Kirkham, one train per hour doesn't make a strong justification for electrification. In the rather unlikely even of more electrification being approved in the North West in the foreseeable future, there are other routes such as the CLC via Warrington Central that have a better case.

 

[Ianno87]

Isn't the plan to divert Blackpool South services to/from Ormskirk to permit the latter to go hourly?

Still requires wires to Ormskirk of course before wires to Blackpool South are of any use.

 

[edwin_m]

Yes I think that's the plan. Would require rather less electrification than Colne but still unlikely to have a good business case.

 

[snowball]

There's a recent thread about the future of the Blackpool South line:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/future-of-the-blackpool-south-line.143684/

 

[Chester1]

An hourly service would probably be a good candidate for battery trains in the 2020s especially if Lytham to Blackpool becomes light rail. There would be an opportunity to charge in the middle of the service and with some new infrastructure at Ormskirk feeding off Merseyrails power. A cable could be run the length of the line to allow a few minutes of charging at Lytham or Blackpool South (if line speeds were improved to increase turn around time). I can't see either line being wired, far too low usage.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't the plan to divert Blackpool South services to/from Ormskirk to permit the latter to go hourly?

Yes (mirroring the service that used to operate in the early 1990s).

 

[MG11]

No "might" about it. It's now closed until March for that very reason (see Blackpool-Manchester electrification thread)

I just heard rumours about MK4s being cascaded there and I wasn't sure if it was just Crayonista talk.

 

[snowball]

I just heard rumours about MK4s being cascaded there and I wasn't sure if it was just Crayonista talk.

Mk 4s being cascaded is doubtful (it has had its its own threads, of which the current one is here), but the electrification is very real, has been going on for a while (years if you count from the first bridge raisings), and the climax started this weekend.

The existence of a Blackpool-Manchester electrification thread with over 5000 posts is a clue.

 

[MG11]

Mk 4s being cascaded is doubtful (it has had its its own threads, of which the current one is here), but the electrification is very real, has been going on for a while (years if you count from the first bridge raisings), and the climax started this weekend.

The existence of a Blackpool-Manchester electrification thread with over 5000 posts is a clue.

Thank you for clarifying. I haven't seen that thread as I only joined recently.

 

[NSEFAN]

An hourly service would probably be a good candidate for battery trains in the 2020s especially if Lytham to Blackpool becomes light rail. There would be an opportunity to charge in the middle of the service and with some new infrastructure at Ormskirk feeding off Merseyrails power. A cable could be run the length of the line to allow a few minutes of charging at Lytham or Blackpool South (if line speeds were improved to increase turn around time). I can't see either line being wired, far too low usage.

It seems that, once upon a time, such lines would have been electrified as a matter of course as infill electrification to remove diesel islands. If such an attitude existed today, maybe we'd be seeing 315s and 317s tarted up to run Preston - Blackpool South services.

On the subject of batteries, I'm not sure if there's enough powered sections to make it worthwhile. The majority of the route needs to be powered to make batteries work, as the recharging rate is not much more than the discharge rate. If Colne or Ormskirk to Preston was already electrified then it might just work, but as it stands I don't think there's enough wiring to make batteries a viable option. Regional diesel/AC bi-mode units would be better.

 

[mwmbwls]

Isn't the plan to divert Blackpool South services to/from Ormskirk to permit the latter to go hourly?

The proposal is for Blackburn based trains to operate a three legged circuit, Blackpool - Ormskirk - Blackpool - Colne -Blackpool and then repeat. Up and down trains will pass on the main lines from Rose Grove to Preston, Preston to Poulton, and Preston to Farrington. The lack of loops on the Burnley Barracks - Colne and Kirkham - Blackpool South sections could be problematic in times of perturbation.

 

[47802]

It seems that, once upon a time, such lines would have been electrified as a matter of course as infill electrification to remove diesel islands. If such an attitude existed today, maybe we'd be seeing 315s and 317s tarted up to run Preston - Blackpool South services.

On the subject of batteries, I'm not sure if there's enough powered sections to make it worthwhile. The majority of the route needs to be powered to make batteries work, as the recharging rate is not much more than the discharge rate. If Colne or Ormskirk to Preston was already electrified then it might just work, but as it stands I don't think there's enough wiring to make batteries a viable option. Regional diesel/AC bi-mode units would be better.

Why 315's there are plenty of 319's and better rolling to be released in the near future, is it yet another southerner who thinks any old crap will do for the north. if we can not get the Windermere branch electrified then I doubt that Blackpool South Electrification is likely to happen anytime soon, unless it becomes a Tram train thing connected to the Blackpool Tramway, but I would imagine Blackpool Tramway will be fully occupied for the next few years with the extension to Blackpool North.

 

[AM9]

It seems that, once upon a time, such lines would have been electrified as a matter of course as infill electrification to remove diesel islands. If such an attitude existed today, maybe we'd be seeing 315s and 317s tarted up to run Preston - Blackpool South services.

On the subject of batteries, I'm not sure if there's enough powered sections to make it worthwhile. The majority of the route needs to be powered to make batteries work, as the recharging rate is not much more than the discharge rate. If Colne or Ormskirk to Preston was already electrified then it might just work, but as it stands I don't think there's enough wiring to make batteries a viable option. Regional diesel/AC bi-mode units would be better.

A more likely fix would be replacing the 142s currently used with 769s. I imagine that the gradients on the Colne route might be a challenge but the Ormskirk line should be easy enough. Are the platforms between Kirkham and Blackpool South able to accomodate 4x20m trains?

 

[NSEFAN]

Why 315's there are plenty of 319's and better rolling to be released in the near future, is it yet another southerner who thinks any old crap will do for the north. if we can not get the Windermere branch electrified then I doubt that Blackpool South Electrification is likely to happen anytime soon, unless it becomes a Tram train thing connected to the Blackpool Tramway, but I would imagine Blackpool Tramway will be fully occupied for the next few years with the extension to Blackpool North.

I was merely referring to the old BR practice of sending second hand ex-commuter EMUs up north to cover the various infill electrification gaps (class 307, 308, etc). Class 315s would merely be the next iteration of this trend. I suppose the 319s are the actual next generation of this pattern, but they're a bit younger and still have some life left. Not sure the same can be said for the 315s.

 

[NSEFAN]

A more likely fix would be replacing the 142s currently used with 769s. I imagine that the gradients on the Colne route might be a challenge but the Ormskirk line should be easy enough. Are the platforms between Kirkham and Blackpool South able to accomodate 4x20m trains?

I know that Blackpool Pleasure Beach would struggle, it can barely fit a 142+150. I'm sure manual selective door opening could be fitted for such circumstances.

 

[Spartacus]

I think all bar Ansdell & Fairhaven can, plus Salwick, though there's plenty of out of use platform there that could be brought back into use comparatively cheaply.

 

[Spartacus]

I know that Blackpool Pleasure Beach would struggle, it can barely fit a 142+150. I'm sure manual selective door opening could be fitted for such circumstances.

Pleasure Beach is quoted at 95m, as opposed to 85m at Blackpool South, so shouldn't be an issue there.

 

[NSEFAN]

Pleasure Beach is quoted at 95m, as opposed to 85m at Blackpool South, so shouldn't be an issue there.

That sounds odd, when I visited a 142+150 formation arrived with the rear set of doors on the Pacer just barely on the platform. On the other hand there was plenty of space at Blackpool South. I suppose the train might have stopped a little short at Pleasure Beach, as I was towards the rear and did not see the stopping position at the front.

 

[DarloRich]

hi will Blackpool South be electrified?

no. At least not this side of the next ice age.

There are no plans currently. I heard that Blackpool North might be though.

not might - will. Isn't it shut at this moment for electrification works?

Why 315's there are plenty of 319's and better rolling to be released in the near future, is it yet another southerner who thinks any old crap will do for the north. if we can not get the Windermere branch electrified then I doubt that Blackpool South Electrification is likely to happen anytime soon

All of those units are better than a pacer!

 

[AM9]

I was merely referring to the old BR practice of sending second hand ex-commuter EMUs up north to cover the various infill electrification gaps (class 307, 308, etc). Class 315s would merely be the next iteration of this trend. I suppose the 319s are the actual next generation of this pattern, but they're a bit younger and still have some life left. Not sure the same can be said for the 315s.

The 319s are already established with services and maintenance in the NW (and by 2020 when the 142 are removed the 769s too) so there would be some uniformity in the region. Without getting into yet another pointless 'why does the north get London's cast offs' discussion, now that the 319s have settled in and the maintainers have learnt of their foibles their reliability is improved to similar levels experienced during their Thameslink service. Providing the 769 development is successful, they should be able to integrate with the Blackpool North timetable and like the 319s already do, operate over the WCML where necessary in amongst the IC services. They are 100mph trains after all. They would also be an improvement over the 142s currently running.

 

[47802]

I was merely referring to the old BR practice of sending second hand ex-commuter EMUs up north to cover the various infill electrification gaps (class 307, 308, etc). Class 315s would merely be the next iteration of this trend. I suppose the 319s are the actual next generation of this pattern, but they're a bit younger and still have some life left. Not sure the same can be said for the 315s.

Yes but the standard cascaded unit for Northern is the 319 along with the new CAF EMU's so why even mention 315/317, and I doubt that's likely to change unless Porterbrook experience really high demand for it 769's, and there will be far more newer EMU's likely to be available in the next few years

 

[randyrippley]

If the Blackpool South line isn't being electrified, why are all the overbridges on that line in Blackpool currently closed? Proved to me quite a problem last night trying to get to St Annes from Blackpool town centre.

 

[cool2005]

What is it there doing to the train line to Blackpool South?

 

[AM9]

What is it there doing to the train line to Blackpool South?

Please explain what is what, where, 'doing to the train line to Blackpool South'?

 

[Spartacus]

That sounds odd, when I visited a 142+150 formation arrived with the rear set of doors on the Pacer just barely on the platform. On the other hand there was plenty of space at Blackpool South. I suppose the train might have stopped a little short at Pleasure Beach, as I was towards the rear and did not see the stopping position at the front.

I dare say the driver forgot he'd got one on the rear and stopped in his normal spot.