Northern timetable plan for May 2018

[Halish Railway]

I'm sure that the Newcastle to Carlisle service was meant to be going up to 2TPH at some point in the future; is this now not happening?

It might be Dec 2019 as Northern don't have enough units to do it in May.

 

[DanNCL]

It'll probably be when the new Connect services start then that Newcastle to Carlisle goes up to 2TPH then. Any other changes planned for the north east?

 

[IanXC]

Services between Newcastle and Carlisle Monday - Saturday are not being improved in this timetable change. The Sunday service is being improved, and for the first time ever there will be a 2-hourly Northern service to Manors, Cramlington and Morpeth on Sundays (currently there is no Northern service). They will not be joined though.

I'm sure that the Newcastle to Carlisle service was meant to be going up to 2TPH at some point in the future; is this now not happening?

It might be Dec 2019 as Northern don't have enough units to do it in May.

I think the above has got lost in 'this timetable change' (I'm fairly certain Starmill is referring to 'this' as being December 2017).

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Is the through Morpeth to Carlisle service still going ahead in May, or has that plan now been scrapped? I believe the plan was for an hourly service from Morpeth to Carlisle, but for the service to be split at Newcastle (like it currently is) on the way back

The "APPLICATION TO THE OFFICE OF RAIL AND ROAD FOR A PASSENGER TRACK ACCESS AGREEMENT, OR AMENDMENT TO A PASSENGER TRACK ACCESS AGREEMENT UNDER SECTIONS 17-22A OF THE RAILWAYS ACT 1993' linked to in a previous post, with a proposed introduction date of "Subsidiary Change Date 2018", that is May 2018, includes:

1. Changes in Quantum


ED01 – Tyne, Tees and Wear

Extension of current Hexham terminating services to and from Carlisle to provide two trains per
hour between Newcastle, Metro Centre and Carlisle.

Extension of weekday hourly MetroCentre to Morpeth services to start at Carlisle.

Additional weekday evening service provision between Morpeth, Newcastle and Metro Centre and
on the Durham Coast, between Newcastle, Hartlepool and Middlesbrough.

 

[Starmill]

I'm fairly certain Starmill is referring to 'this' as being December 2017

That's right - I ought to have been clearer!

 

[markydh]

The services are going half-hourly in May 2018. It looks like the service pattern will be a bit odd in that Morpeth services will run to Carlisle westbound but eastbound services will terminate in Newcastle. I can only assume, therefore, that there will be diagrams of Morpeth - Carlisle - Newcastle - Metrocentre - Morpeth and repeat. I’m basing this on the small print within the application. The other one will be Middlesbrough - Carlisle with most services being via Sunderland until Northern Connect starts.

 

[pemma]

There weren't supposed to be any May 2018 enhancements, the majority of them are postponed Dec 17 enhancements with a couple brought forward e.g. Calder Valley to Man Airport which was a Dec 19 requirement.

 

[palmersears]

Well, yes Northern/TPE are obviously hoping that the changes that Northern are paying for at Piccadilly platforms 13/14 will improve dwell times, and are certainly not going to increase them.

Forgive me if this has been mentioned already, but do we know what these improvements are likely to look like?

 

[pemma]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned already, but what do we know what these improvements are likely to look like?

The TPE/Northern services using platforms 13/14 will be:

TPE:
Airport to Newcastle (via Ordsall Chord)
Airport to Middlesbrough (via Ordsall Chord)
Airport to Scotland (via Bolton)

(All Liverpool services will go via Victoria and they'll be 2tph starting at Piccadilly going via Guide Bridge - one to Hull and one to Leeds only.)


Northern:
Crewe to Manchester Airport to Liverpool (via Chat Moss)
Manchester Airport to Liverpool (via Warrington Central)
Manchester Airport to Leeds (via Bradford)
Manchester Airport to Barrow/Windermere (via Wigan)
Alderley Edge to Wigan (via Bolton)
Macclesfield to Blackpool North
Manchester Airport to Blackpool North

I'm not sure if I've missed any. There's also a proposal for an Airport-Blackburn via Ordsall Chord service but that won't start in May 2018.

 

[notlob.divad]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned already, but do we know what these improvements are likely to look like?

The TPE/Northern services using platforms 13/14 will be:

TPE:
...

Northern:
...

I'm not sure if I've missed any. There's also a proposal for an Airport-Blackburn via Ordsall Chord service but that won't start in May 2018.

I think Palmersears was asking about the platforms themselves.

As far as I know it is just a removal of clutter from the platforms. Removing the waiting rooms and generally trying to improve passanger flows, thus speeding up platform dwell times.

 

[Halish Railway]

When will Northern have all of their cascaded units from Scotrail and GWR so that they can implement futher timetable changes?

 

[pemma]

When will Northern have all of their cascaded units from Scotrail and GWR so that they can implement futher timetable changes?

The majority of the GWR and LM 150s were supposed to have arrived by now but have been delayed. The Scotrail units will join over the course of next year - I think the first units are scheduled to arrive in June. The 195s from mid-2018. However, remember there's a lot of refurbishments to do and the 142s, 144s and 153s are all being returned.

 

[superkev]

Is there any truth in what someone told me the other day that Huddersfield -Wakefield kirkgate - Wakefield Westgate trains are to be extended to Castleford and beyond and no longer go to Westgate.
K

 

[Starmill]

That is indeed in the plan, yes.

 

[xotGD]

Is there any truth in what someone told me the other day that Huddersfield -Wakefield kirkgate - Wakefield Westgate trains are to be extended to Castleford and beyond and no longer go to Westgate.
K

Kirkgate - Westgate will be doable on the extended Knottingley - Wakey - Leeds services.

 

[pemma]

Kirkgate - Westgate will be doable on the extended Knottingley - Wakey - Leeds services.

It'll mean journey planners won't suggest Huddersfield passengers change at Westgate for ECML services anymore, which might mean even more passengers on TPE's Huddersfield-Leeds services.

 

[Halish Railway]

I've heard that the Huddersfield to Castleford service might eventually be extended to York. Don't quote me on that.

 

[northernchris]

The Huddersfield-Castleford seems a bit of an obscure service. Is there much demand for a direct service or is it more a case of aiming to reduce congestion at Westgate and Castleford is the next most logicle place to terminate?

 

[Halish Railway]

The Huddersfield-Castleford seems a bit of an obscure service. Is there much demand for a direct service or is it more a case of aiming to reduce congestion at Westgate and Castleford is the next most logicle place to terminate?

I think that it is down to giving Normanton 2tph along with the other '5 towns' area.

 

[superkev]

The Huddersfield-Castleford seems a bit of an obscure service. Is there much demand for a direct service or is it more a case of aiming to reduce congestion at Westgate and Castleford is the next most logicle place to terminate?

Why not go all the way to York. Not everyone from York huddersfield and beyond wants to go to Leeds.

 

[Halish Railway]

Why not go all the way to York. Not everyone from York huddersfield and beyond wants to go to Leeds.

Plus it would give Normanton and Castleford a York service.

 

[lejog]

Why not go all the way to York. Not everyone from York huddersfield and beyond wants to go to Leeds.

Because its a West Yorkshire inspired change IIRC.

 

[Confused147]

Are Northern providing a third service Manchester to Birmingham from May? I heard some time ago there were plans for three trains hourly between the two cities after the Norton Bridge work was completed.. Not heard anything since.

 

[Halish Railway]

Are Northern providing a third service Manchester to Birmingham from May? I heard some time ago there were plans for three trains hourly between the two cities after the Norton Bridge work was completed.. Not heard anything since.

Doubt that it would be Northern or in May 2018.

 

[Halish Railway]

Is the new Leeds to Knottingley via Wakefield Westgate going to stop at Outwood?

Also, when will the hourly Leeds to Goole via Castleford service start?

 

[cactustwirly]

Also, when will the hourly Leeds to Goole via Castleford service start?

I'd be very surprised if it does actually go hourly
Has it been confirmed?

 

[pemma]

Are Northern providing a third service Manchester to Birmingham from May? I heard some time ago there were plans for three trains hourly between the two cities after the Norton Bridge work was completed.. Not heard anything since.

You've got a bit confused there. An option for a Stoke-Stone-Birmingham has been looked at for a while, one proposal was the Northern Manchester-Stoke stopper would transfer to LM and then it would continue to Birmingham via Stone. However, that option hasn't been taken up and the next West Midlands franchise will extend an existing Birmingham-Wolverhampton service to Crewe via Stone.

 

[Harpers Tate]

...when will the hourly Leeds to Goole via Castleford service start?

According to the franchise Train Service Requirement schedule for 2019 December on Mon-Fri, there is required to be a minimum of ONE specified service from Goole (etc) arriving in Leeds between 0800 and 0859. There is no other requirement in the document for Mon-Fri for this route and direction. I haven't looked at Saturdays, nor the other direction, but I suspect it is exactly as per now (give or take timetable adjustments)

 

[Philip]

Doubt that it would be Northern or in May 2018.

Why not Northern? The geography of the route means it's more or less 50/50 in terms of mileage in the North West and mileage in the Midlands and would serve either Crewe and Wilmslow or Macclesfield which are all considered to be in the North West. On the flip side; yes I know that Stoke, Stafford and Wolves are in the Midlands, so for that reason it's difficult to judge which pot such a service should go in.

It's irrelevant as far as this route goes, but there could be a few questions regarding this matter should the new Wales franchise not include running the shuttles on the Crewe to Shrewsbury and Crewe to Chester lines.

 

[Class 170101]

I've heard that the Huddersfield to Castleford service might eventually be extended to York. Don't quote me on that.

Would need the restoration of the second platform at Castleford first though.