Northern timetable plan for May 2018

[skifans]

Does anyone have any links/files of these provisional timetable (or departure lists?) that are being quoted, iv got a few stations id be interested in but feel bad asking other people to look it up for me.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I have it on good authority that you'll see 323s spreading their wings to Preston, Blackpool and Liverpool from May.

You'll see 319s inter-mingled on Crewe and Hadfield services.

Stoke will remain solely 323.

All of this of course hinges on completion of electrification and success of the flex project...

Hopefully that is true. Wouldn't be surprised to see the 323s end up staying with Northern in some capacity due to the need for 3 car EMUs.

 

[lejog]

As mentioned by others, the consultation is currently restricted to stakeholders, including Northern staff. The proposed departures from Leeds (Mon - Sat daytime) are:
xx.22 Leeds - Southport (via Brighouse, stopper, extension of current xx.26)

Now the first indications of the new TPE timetable are available, it would be interesting to see how this service fits in. If anyone with a copy of the consultation timetable could please post the following information, it would be most useful:

• the time the above service calls at Mirfield and which intermediate stations are served? (the original plan was to skip Batley and Ravensthorpe)
• for the return service, the times at Mirfield and arrival at Leeds and which intermediate stations are served?
• whether there are any additional calls on rush hour am services into Leeds, pm services from Leeds?

Thanks.

 

[pemma]

Hopefully that is true. Wouldn't be surprised to see the 323s end up staying with Northern in some capacity due to the need for 3 car EMUs.

I would guess it means occasional booked 6 car workings through Salford Crescent given Salford Crescent could take 6 car 323s but not 8 car 319s.

There will be 3 car 331s joining the fleet as Arriva had to base their December 2019 fleet plan on no 323s being available and 319s not being suitable for all routes.

 

[Starmill]

Now the first indications of the new TPE timetable are available, it would be interesting to see how this service fits in. If anyone with a copy of the consultation timetable could please post the following information, it would be most useful:

• the time the above service calls at Mirfield and which intermediate stations are served? (the original plan was to skip Batley and Ravensthorpe)
• for the return service, the times at Mirfield and arrival at Leeds and which intermediate stations are served?
• whether there are any additional calls on rush hour am services into Leeds, pm services from Leeds?

Thanks.

An informed source suggests that this could be xx21 from Leeds, calling Cottingley, Morley, Dewsbury, Mirfield, Brighouse and stations to Southport via Manchester Vic. Leaving Manchester Vic on the way back at xx37 and Brighouse 55 minutes after that.

 

[Bevan Price]

Does anyone have any links/files of these provisional timetable (or departure lists?) that are being quoted, iv got a few stations id be interested in but feel bad asking other people to look it up for me.

Open Train Times has provisional info. for the new TP timetable. The link below shows a typical one hour period at Stalybridge for a date after the new timetable has started

http://www.opentraintimes.com/locat...on&show_stp=on&show_var=on&show_wtt=on&utf8=✓


Click train ID (headcode) for full schedule of that train. Adjust time/date/ station name for other stations, etc.
Note that "Northern" times do not seem to be available yet on OTT.

 

[notlob.divad]

So it appears that Liverpool - York and Manchester Airport - York has taken the priority for the 30 minute separation of services through Manchester Victoria. The negative result of this is that trains between Manchester and Newcastle, are at 15 and 45 minute intervals.

 

[Halish Railway]

So would the full timetable for May 20th be available on realtime trains around February 20th.

 

[Ianno87]

So it appears that Liverpool - York and Manchester Airport - York has taken the priority for the 30 minute separation of services through Manchester Victoria. The negative result of this is that trains between Manchester and Newcastle, are at 15 and 45 minute intervals.

Do the Newcastle trains have the same/similar stopping pattern? The 15/45 may become more even elsewhere.

 

[Philip]

So it appears that Liverpool - York and Manchester Airport - York has taken the priority for the 30 minute separation of services through Manchester Victoria. The negative result of this is that trains between Manchester and Newcastle, are at 15 and 45 minute intervals.

I wouldn't say it's negative, being honest Newcastle is fortunate to have two trains per hour from Manchester; one is more than enough. The priority is to have Manchester to Leeds and York fast at a quarter-hourly interval. It doesn't look like either of the TPE services will be calling at St Helens from May, I thought this was part of the plan?

 

[nw-sparks]

I wouldn't say it's negative, being honest Newcastle is fortunate to have two trains per hour from Manchester; one is more than enough. The priority is to have Manchester to Leeds and York fast at a quarter-hourly interval. It doesn't look like either of the TPE services will be calling at St Helens from May, I thought this was part of the plan?

There's a Lea Green stop for the Scarborough trains instead.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Scarborough calls at Lea Green instead, the Newcastle at Newton le Willows (which is actually in St Helens borough).

 

[pemma]

So it appears that Liverpool - York and Manchester Airport - York has taken the priority for the 30 minute separation of services through Manchester Victoria. The negative result of this is that trains between Manchester and Newcastle, are at 15 and 45 minute intervals.

Liverpool to Newcastle is a franchise requirement, as is Victoria to York every 15 minutes. The reason it's not half-hourly Liverpool to Newcastle was a small number of people complained about Newcastle losing it's Airport service. End result is a compromised inconsistent timetable. However, saying that it should be remembered there are other services available between Newcastle and Leeds which aren't interworked with TPE services, so it's never going to be clockface for all possible journey options.

 

[skifans]

Open Train Times has provisional info. for the new TP timetable. The link below shows a typical one hour period at Stalybridge for a date after the new timetable has started

http://www.opentraintimes.com/location/SYB/2018-05-23/10:25?empty_passenger=on&non_passenger=on&passenger=on&show_call=on&show_pass=on&show_stp=on&show_var=on&show_wtt=on&utf8=✓


Click train ID (headcode) for full schedule of that train. Adjust time/date/ station name for other stations, etc.
Note that "Northern" times do not seem to be available yet on OTT.

Great, thank you

 

[Charlie150275]

Has anyone got any ideas about the new May Morecambe to Leeds timetable and Leeds to Morecambe Timetable? Thank you, much appreciated

 

[Charlie150275]

Are any of these services from Morecambe? if so are there any times? Thanks

There isn't a 3 hour gap from Carlisle - there's a 13:40 service.

The times mentioned earlier were:

From Leeds to Carlisle:
05:19
07:47
09:19
11:20
13:20
15:20
17:19
18:19
19:49 (To Ribblehead)


From Carlisle to Leeds:
0551
0927
1124
1340
1427
1627
1824
2019
2145 (From Ribblehead)


From Leeds to Lancaster:
07:19
08:19
10:20
12:20
14:20
17:50
19:18


From Lancaster to Leeds:
0648
0938
1038
1243
1443
1743
2030
2130 (To Skipton)

Note that there must be another service towards Lancaster to balance out the set workings (unless one westbound is a double).

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Many of Northern's services, including the Skipton - Morecambe line are now online. There may be one or two trains still missing as there is currently a huge 5 hour gap showing in the afternoon, which must be wrong. But the route does seem to gain some additional services.

 

[berneyarms]

So would the full timetable for May 20th be available on realtime trains around February 20th.

Subject to last minute changes, yes.

The final timetables are usually published in pdf format roughly four weeks out.

 

[berneyarms]

Many of Northern's services, including the Skipton - Morecambe line are now online. There may be one or two trains still missing as there is currently a huge 5 hour gap showing in the afternoon, which must be wrong. But the route does seem to gain some additional services.

Again, treat with extreme caution - they’re not finalised at this stage as per post above. People here have made all sorts of assumptions in previous years, only to find that they are wrong when the actual final timetables have appeared.

 

[stu99]

I know these are subject to change but the Newcastle to Carlisle timetables look interesting.

http://www.opentraintimes.com/locat...on&show_stp=on&show_var=on&show_wtt=on&utf8=✓

 

[pemma]

Again, treat with extreme caution - they’re not finalised at this stage as per post above. People here have made all sorts of assumptions in previous years, only to find that they are wrong when the actual final timetables have appeared.

Indeed. Who remembers the once daily Buxton to Morecambe service that was put in the system only to become a Buxton to Barrow service at the last minute?

 

[pemma]

Many of Northern's services, including the Skipton - Morecambe line are now online. There may be one or two trains still missing as there is currently a huge 5 hour gap showing in the afternoon, which must be wrong. But the route does seem to gain some additional services.

If we trust what's currently in there a lot of Mid-Cheshire services are going to start/terminate at Stockport and there's going to be huge gaps between services between Greenbank and Chester, so I imagine Northern's upload is incomplete.

 

[northernchris]

Hope the Calder Valley timetable is incorrect, there's quite an imbalance in the Leeds direction with 3 trains departing Bradford within 14 minutes then nothing for 30 minutes

 

[scrapy]

If we trust what's currently in there a lot of Mid-Cheshire services are going to start/terminate at Stockport and there's going to be huge gaps between services between Greenbank and Chester, so I imagine Northern's upload is incomplete.

A number of empty stock moves showing between Warrington Bank Quay and Carnforth for Northern 100mph DMUs from May. Presumably these will be for driver training?

 

[lejog]

Hope the Calder Valley timetable is incorrect, there's quite an imbalance in the Leeds direction with 3 trains departing Bradford within 14 minutes then nothing for 30 minutes

The reduced spacing between services was one of West Yorkshire's main concerns about the timetable, but yes all 4 trains between x.03 and x.33 is poor. The service between Hebden Bridge and Bradford is even worse, x.30, x.40 and x.50 although there is also a slower service to Leeds via Brighouse service at x.13.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

If opentraintimes is correct, looks like my local station of Elsecar will finally get its stop on the Penistone line reintroduced, meaning a doubling to 2 tph to both Sheffield and Barnsley. Well done Northern, it's only taken you 14 years to reinstate it!

http://www.opentraintimes.com/locat...on&show_stp=on&show_var=on&show_wtt=on&utf8=✓

 

[northernchris]

The reduced spacing between services was one of West Yorkshire's main concerns about the timetable, but yes all 4 trains between x.03 and x.33 is poor. The service between Hebden Bridge and Bradford is even worse, x.30, x.40 and x.50 although there is also a slower service to Leeds via Brighouse service at x.13.

That is bad for Hebden Bridge passengers, I know there's a decent peak flow from Calderdale to Bradford so it could create crowding issues. I do wonder if the gap is deliberate though to allow for additional services in the future without having to recast the entire timetable

 

[eastwestdivide]

Also in S Yorks, there are paths in for the tram-trains through Rotherham to Parkgate (I also posted more details in the tram-train thread: Sheffield/Rotherham Tram-Train update)

 

[Viscount702]

Unless there are changes to come which might be the case I dont think those using Heaton Chapel are going to be happy. 4 southbound not great spacing but only 3 northbound currently showing all within 15 minutes

 

[pemma]

Unless there are changes to come which might be the case I dont think those using Heaton Chapel are going to be happy. 4 southbound not great spacing but only 3 northbound currently showing all within 15 minutes

Not all services in the 'South Manchester' group are in the system.