Residents cut down a wood on Bristol railway line without permission to improve their views

[Deafdoggie]

If you want professional levels of clarity, you can pay me professional levels of fees. Which I will then use to employ a surveyor to comment on the particular question of the value of houses in the Bristol suburbs. The only professional knowledge I was bringing to the previous discussion was about the likelihood of trespass having been committed and the possible civil action arising from that.

I am sure that would only cost a few quid

 

[Llanigraham]

Looks like it could have been done without trespassing on the line itself though.

Considering that these trees were on the railway side of the fences, I fail to understand how you have worked that out.

 

[B&I]

I am sure that would only cost a few quid

I'm very good value

 

[Chrisyd]

5. Network Rail is currently doing massive amounts of embankment and cutting side clearance and stabilisation work on a 4-mile stretch of railway in Bristol, the nearest section of which is less than a mile from this location, as part of the Filton Bank 4-tracking project. So it is very clear to any observer, casual or otherwise, what a NR-authorised tree clearance job looks like, and this is not it by a long way..

One thought I had around this, if NR had people working 4 miles away and where receiving reports from when it started on Wednesday, was there not someone who could have got there before Friday?

 

[jimm]

This would be a job for the mobile operations managers to deal with, not the engineering teams working at Filton.

If there was a delay in sending someone out, it may be down to something getting lost in translation between what the drivers were telling controllers about what they were seeing and the message that reached whoever at Network Rail was expected to go out to look.

If the message ended up on the lines of 'there are some clowns trimming trees inside the boundary fence' but there was a serious operating incident elsewhere to deal with, then attending the incident would obviously take precedence.

 

[Karl]

I'm sorry, but I couldn't help being reminded of this from the days... what's trespass?

(A clip from the 1970 film The Railway Children where a landslide sees the trees 'walking' down the banking)

 

[Chris M]

In legal terms, is it not the case that exactitude of map details is critical when exclusion areas are under discussion.

That entirely depends how the areas are defined. Sometimes the areas will be defined in writing, e.g. "a line running from a point 6 metres north of the junction of High Street and Back Road, 375.2 metres north east and from that point due east until the eastern kerb line of White Avenue." and any maps will just be guides. Other times the areas will be defined by reference to a "definitive map", and any text description and any other maps will just be guides. I don't have any idea which it is in this case, or indeed which map the poster you were responding to used but assuming it's a zoomable online map or plotted on google maps then this is extremely unlikley to be definitive - even more so if the designation was made more than a small number of years ago.

 

[DelW]

4. Railway cuttings and embankments are engineered structures, not part of 'nature', and have to be maintained, to retain their structural integrity. In nature, trees perform a valuable role in soil stabilisation. On railway cuttings and embankments they do the opposite..

Although cuttings and embankments were created by engineering contractors, I suspect there was very little 'engineering' of them beyond past experience and a degree of trial and error. The scientific approach to soil mechanics, including slope stability, was only in its infancy when most railways were being built. Having once been involved in removing a railway embankment (from a closed branch line built late in the railway era), it was very definitely neither engineered nor properly compacted, being founded on large lumps of clay tipped over the original topsoil and grass. The only 'maintenance' it had apparently received was substantial layers of ash apparently placed on top to bring the track back up to level when it had settled.

However you're quite correct to point out that most railway earthworks spent many years without any tree growth, which was rigorously controlled until the end of steam.

 

[D60]

DelW.. Yep, 'engineered' in maybe 'loosely' defined terms... As in built (and maintained, hopefully) by Civil Engineers.. rather than 'natural' formations (obvs)...
In nature, trees help maintain soil stability. On 'engineered' (built) railway formations they do they opposite.. with 'undesirable outcomes' for those entrusted with operating and maintaining the railway.. (see also contributions from Steptoe and Hellzapoppin).
See also the massive amount of clearance and remediation work being currently undertaken by Network Rail on similar structures a short distance from this location..

 

[rebmcr]

DelW.. Yep, 'engineered' in maybe 'loosely' defined terms... As in built (and maintained, hopefully) by Civil Engineers.. rather than 'natural' formations (obvs)...
In nature, trees help maintain soil stability. On 'engineered' (built) railway formations they do they opposite.. with 'undesirable outcomes' for those entrusted with operating and maintaining the railway.. (see also contributions from Steptoe and Hellzapoppin).
See also the massive amount of clearance and remediation work being currently undertaken by Network Rail on similar structures a short distance from this location..

It's hard to tell which are your comments here, please use the Quote system!

 

[D60]

rebmcr.. Oops sorry, haven't so far got the proper reply function to work for me on the new format on this crappiest glitchiest old phone, it's taken me until now to even contribute anything at all here since Oct..!
Oh well, soz !

 

[rebmcr]

rebmcr.. Oops sorry, haven't so far got the proper reply function to work for me on the new format on this crappiest glitchiest old phone, it's taken me until now to even contribute anything at all here since Oct..!
Oh well, soz !

Fair enough.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Most varieties of young trees/bushes normally regrow after being cut down, bit like a copse.
May work out to be very expensive for someone!

 

[randyrippley]

Most varieties of young trees/bushes normally regrow after being cut down, bit like a copse.
May work out to be very expensive for someone!

You mean a coppice, not a copse
A copse is just a small wood - but this lineside overgrowth doesn't even qualify as that.

 

[bonzawe]

Reported tonight - No further action

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/no-action-taken-against-residents-1335532

No action will be taken against residents of a Bristol street who decided to chop down dozens of trees along a railway line to improve their views.

Residents of Cromwell Road hired a tree surgeon company to remove the wood on the embankment next to Montpelier railway station.

They said it obstructed the views from the backs of their homes, and its removal allowed more light into their rear gardens.

National Rail launched an investigation in January this year after hearing the news, but has now said it will not take any action against the residents.

It is thought the trees prevented landslips on the steep embankment down to the railway line, and acted as a noise buffer against the noise of the trains.

The railway cutting was also reportedly home to a badger sett and a colony of bats.

It is thought about six to 10 residents clubbed together to pay for the removal of the trees.

A spokesman for National Rail said at the time: “We did not give permission for the recent de-vegetation work in Montpelier to be carried out.

“Safety is our priority and nobody is permitted to access the railway unless they have the proper permission.”

The company has now said the area would be “tidied” and that it would take no further action against the residents.

 

[theageofthetra]

Reported tonight - No further action

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/no-action-taken-against-residents-1335532

No action will be taken against residents of a Bristol street who decided to chop down dozens of trees along a railway line to improve their views.

Residents of Cromwell Road hired a tree surgeon company to remove the wood on the embankment next to Montpelier railway station.

They said it obstructed the views from the backs of their homes, and its removal allowed more light into their rear gardens.

National Rail launched an investigation in January this year after hearing the news, but has now said it will not take any action against the residents.

It is thought the trees prevented landslips on the steep embankment down to the railway line, and acted as a noise buffer against the noise of the trains.

The railway cutting was also reportedly home to a badger sett and a colony of bats.

It is thought about six to 10 residents clubbed together to pay for the removal of the trees.

A spokesman for National Rail said at the time: “We did not give permission for the recent de-vegetation work in Montpelier to be carried out.

“Safety is our priority and nobody is permitted to access the railway unless they have the proper permission.”

The company has now said the area would be “tidied” and that it would take no further action against the residents.

That's sending out completely the wrong message on trespass. A very strange decision.

 

[Leo1961]

No Harm, No Foul

 

[eastdyke]

That's sending out completely the wrong message on trespass. A very strange decision.

Perhaps the email/message trail was rather less than clear cut?

 

[6Gman]

Reported tonight - No further action

The railway cutting was also reportedly home to a badger sett and a colony of bats.

If it was the site of a bat roost then the local constabulary ought to investigate a breach of legislation.

Pardon the pun, but the residents and their tree surgeon may not be out of the woods.

[Potential penalty on conviction: six months of imprisonment and/or unlimited fine. Not legislation to be trifled with ...]

 

[TUC]

That's sending out completely the wrong message on trespass. A very strange decision.

NR's statement also does nothing to aid public understanding of why the presence of trees may be important to railwsy stability. Instead we get the usual meaninglesss mantra on 'safety is our priority'.

 

[Lucan]

I know this area and there is no view of it that would be improved by cutting any trees down. In fact, the less you can see of it, the better. Nor can I imagine that all the residents of a road (as implied) would have been in favour of this. More likely it was just one or two residents who, like a significant number of people, have what seems to be a phobia or hatred of trees. There is a psychological theory that some people have phobias of things that have life spans longer than themselves (elephants and tortoises too).

Anyone who has ever cut down a tree (or even just pruned one) will know that it takes a few minutes to cut but then hours or days of hard graft to clear up, especially if you get the roots up. I can see that no-one bothered with that here.

 

[InOban]

I thought bats had their winter roost in caves etc. They may use trees in summer, but this was winter.
I suspect that there are no accurate maps in the land registry

Looking at the gardens, I think the owners were trying to grow vegetables, which almost always need full light.
It's probably a myth, but I've heard that up here in Scotland, if you extend your garden and the real owner does nothing about it for, say, seven years, then you've got it.

 

[D60]

NR's statement also does nothing to aid public understanding of why the presence of trees may be important to railwsy stability. Instead we get the usual meaninglesss mantra on 'safety is our priority'.

Maybe because that simply isn't the message that Network Rail would want to put out... In view of the fact that trees disrupt the stability of railway formations (see previous comments in this thread)... And in view of the massive amount of tree clearance and cutting-side and embankment stabilisation and remediation work Network Rail has been undertaking over the last 2 years over a 4 mile stretch of main line railway, as a necessary prelude to the Filton Bank 4-tracking project, the nearest section of which is within a mile of this location.. (including soil-nailing of embankments, and removal of disrupted surface layers of cutting sides and replacement with a depth of stone through which no re-growth will be possible).

Not only have the perpetrators trespassed on the railway, they have trashed the site (although I imagine it will be regrowing vigorously as the growing season gets underway).

A major amount of tree clearance is necessary on this stretch of railway too.. but not in the way this was done.

 

[whhistle]

It's probably a myth, but I've heard that up here in Scotland, if you extend your garden and the real owner does nothing about it for, say, seven years, then you've got it.

I'm not an expert in Scottish law but I'm sure there's some truth in that, or a variation of it.
It's harder to challenge the longer it's gone on.
My house has a converted garage. It's been like that for over 10 years. The local council probably didn't give permission for it and it doesn't look like it's up to proper building regulations (although it is a solid piece of work!). The council wouldn't be able to challenge it now as it's been in plain view for all that time.
The man who hid a house behind the hay bales though - that's hidden and so is different.

 

[BestWestern]

A silly statement, if nothing else. Far harsher wording about the dangers and the stupidity, combined with an open-ended conclusion such as 'we will continue to monitor any further evidence and liase with the police' etc etc would have been more helpful, even if just to leave a stern taste. "No further action" is a cop-out and will only serve to encourage others. They've even made mention of the fact that they'll come and tidy up the idiots' mess!

 

[Deafdoggie]

A silly statement, if nothing else. Far harsher wording about the dangers and the stupidity, combined with an open-ended conclusion such as 'we will continue to monitor any further evidence and liase with the police' etc etc would have been more helpful, even if just to leave a stern taste. "No further action" is a cop-out and will only serve to encourage others. They've even made mention of the fact that they'll come and tidy up the idiots' mess!

Yes, it does imply that Network Rail are not as innocent in this as they first made out. weather or not that is the case I don't know, but their sudden change of heart seems to cast doubt on the fact that they never gave permission.

 

[Chris M]

My house has a converted garage. It's been like that for over 10 years. The local council probably didn't give permission for it and it doesn't look like it's up to proper building regulations (although it is a solid piece of work!). The council wouldn't be able to challenge it now as it's been in plain view for all that time.

I vaguely remember an issue with the house my parents and I moved into in 1991. The previous owners had converted the attached barn into part of the house without planning permission about 5 years earlier. They almost certainly didn't need planning permission but didn't get any bits of paper saying that. However, had they applied they wouldn't have been allowed to do the conversion as they did as it wasn't fully compliant with building regs (iirc when there is a 90° turn in a staircase that step needs to be square and of a certain size, but in this case it wasn't square - it was wide enough but about 6 inches two short or something like that).

 

[telstarbox]

Perhaps the email/message trail was rather less than clear cut?

Yes, lots of conflicting stories, so it's hard to see the wood for...

 

[theageofthetra]

Wood be even funnier if they stuck a W board right in front of those houses.

 

[BestWestern]

Wood be even funnier if they stuck a W board right in front of those houses.

These branch lines are nothing but trouble...