Don’t quite follow the Victoria option, surely a real ‘coastal service’, would carry on along the coast, combining the current east and west sections, which would of course require changes at Brighton...A real coastal service would run from Weymouth to Brighton (or Victoria). An artificial divvying up of the franchises (historical legacy) prevents such happening.
I think it'll be five, no?What I mean is there are four trains per hour heading west of Southampton.
Yes, sure. I didn’t include XC in the context of this thread, but they’ll still be there. Reminds me that in the 2004 big change South Central were kicked off the route, said at the time to be because they got in the way...I think it'll be five, no?
Will be interesting in the Summer months though when the level crossings are down ten times an hour at Brockenhurst!
- 1 Fast Weymouth - 10-car to split at Weymouth.
- 1 Semi-Fast Weymouth - 5-car having split at Southampton.
- 1 Slow to Poole - 5-car having split at Southampton.
- 1 Slow to Bournemouth - 4-car from Portsmouth.
- 1 XC to Bournemouth.
The present Waterloo - Poole stoppers, the xx39s, still get curtailed at Southampton AFAICT.Isn’t the Poole now terminating at Southampton? It’s hard to keep track of everything.
The present Waterloo - Poole stoppers, the xx39s, still get curtailed at Southampton AFAICT.
There was then originally going to be a fast Waterloo to Poole, vice the current xx05 running in the opposite half hour to the fast Waterloo to Weymouth, current xx35, but that ‘Fast’ Poole train is now re-extended to Weymouth, however its rear portion will now split at Southampton and run semi-fast to Poole.
Current Waterloo departure times shown, I dare say they’ll all be changed in December...
Sorry, what I really had in mind was Gatwick. But such a train would probably form, pragmatically, a service to Victoria, so it would half empty at Gatwick then refill with GX type pax there, as a GX type service.Don’t quite follow the Victoria option, surely a real ‘coastal service’, would carry on along the coast, combining the current east and west sections, which would of course require changes at Brighton...
A fast train from (at least as far west as) Bournemouth, calling only at Christchurch, Southampton, Havant, (Barnham?) and Gatwick could make a step change in customer experience and cause big modal shift from car (saving car parking fee at Gatwick too). Gatwick needs far better through connections from the west, just as Heathrow needs them.
Southern services to Gatwick and Victoria are changing in May 2018 timetable. They will be leaving earlier at xx26 past each hour. Currently it's xx33 past each hour so only one genuine connection off trains from Weymouth or XC from Bournemouth.As is often said you cannot provide a direct service everywhere. They could have extended the present Victoria back to Bournemouth (or further still), it’s been done before, but that is probably one of the most unreliable services in the Southampton area. So SWR/DfT went with extending the Portsmouth stopper to Weymouth, and this could have overlapped with the Victoria train from Southampton and Fareham to Cosham, to allow connections if timed right.
So what happened, people in the Weymouth area took one look at this great idea to provide connectivity along the south coast and demanded their 2 tph to Waterloo back. Probably because that is where the real demand is, and DfT now know that.
Concur with above regarding superimposing a fast train on the existing service patterns anyway - it would be near impossible.
Real crayon time here for which I apologise (slightly!), but is there any crossover between the Victoria and Waterloo lines at Clapham Junction which would allow this nonexistent service to go into Waterloo?Sorry, what I really had in mind was Gatwick. But such a train would probably form, pragmatically, a service to Victoria, so it would half empty at Gatwick then refill with GX type pax there, as a GX type service.
A fast train from (at least as far west as) Bournemouth, calling only at Christchurch, Southampton, Havant, (Barnham?) and Gatwick could make a step change in customer experience and cause big modal shift from car (saving car parking fee at Gatwick too). Gatwick needs far better through connections from the west, just as Heathrow needs them.
Real crayon time here for which I apologise (slightly!), but is there any crossover between the Victoria and Waterloo lines at Clapham Junction which would allow this nonexistent service to go into Waterloo?
Why would one want to do so? (From where, is really my question as from anywhere west of Havant, one already can do and quicker).Real crayon time here for which I apologise (slightly!), but is there any crossover between the Victoria and Waterloo lines at Clapham Junction which would allow this nonexistent service to go into Waterloo?
At the moment it’s xx13 for the Victoria & Gatwick through, the xx33 is to Brighton. From May the Victoria seems pretty much unchanged, but varying around xx10 - xx14. It’s the Brightons that generally move to xx26. (According to RTT anyway.)Southern services to Gatwick and Victoria are changing in May 2018 timetable. They will be leaving earlier at xx26 past each hour. Currently it's xx33 past each hour so only one genuine connection off trains from Weymouth or XC from Bournemouth.
Not at all inbound from the Streatham direction. For most normal day to day purposes the SN and SW mainline networks are completely separate at Clapham Junction. This is why steam charters from Victoria towards the southwest join the Windsor side and run via Staines and Byfleet.Real crayon time here for which I apologise (slightly!), but is there any crossover between the Victoria and Waterloo lines at Clapham Junction which would allow this nonexistent service to go into Waterloo?
Taking your criticism on board, I have some data from the CAA Passenger survey 2016, which, at the mo, is apparently the latest.I believe in this and many other threads HowardGWR completely exaggerates the demand. I say again, real passengers from west Dorset have allegedly come out and said that they want more trains to Waterloo, not trains along the coast, not even to Portsmouth.
By the time you've reached Farnborough, Clapham Junction is only 25 minutes away, with Gatwick a further 30 minutes away. People aren't going to change at Farnborough and walk the 15 minutes through a housing estate to get to Farnborough North no matter how many trains you stop there.It would be better to build some kind of super interchange at Farnborough for Gatwick traffic from Dorset and Somerset instead of trying to do something along the coast for Gatwick - however going via Clapham Junction may still be quicker.
People aren't going to change at Farnborough and walk the 15 minutes through a housing estate to get to Farnborough North no matter how many trains you stop there.
By the time you've reached Farnborough, Clapham Junction is only 25 minutes away, with Gatwick a further 30 minutes away. People aren't going to change at Farnborough and walk the 15 minutes through a housing estate to get to Farnborough North no matter how many trains you stop there.
I'm not saying it's a particularly bad road, but it certainly wouldn't inspire confidences in those who don't know the area. I've done the walk many times before (indeed it used to be part of my commute) but I can't imagine daytrippers/tourists would want to do so.Housing estate?! Highgate Lane is one of the more salubrious roads in Farnborough, bordering open fields on one side and taking you right to the Price of Wales pub, which serves a fine selection of real ales. I can't think why anyone wouldn't want to walk down it with luggage to connect to an infrequent service to Gatwick.
That's almost certainly never going to happen, as nice as it would be.build a grade separated junction between Frimley and Farnborough and a new station at Frimley next to the Macdonald's in the Farnborough Gate retail park as well as a new entrance/exit on the other platform to the existing at Frimley as then the change distance wouldn't be very far to walk
Most people want to go to Waterloo. In order to get passengers to Waterloo trains need to stop at stations. If you want to go to a station other than Waterloo and your not starting from Waterloo then if you get a joinery with a good connection that's a bonus. No connection even better.I think there is a lot of traffic to go for. I think SWR and SN should get together on this one. Of course you cite that most pax in the Wessex area want their London service, but this is existing users and occasional users. I would be after modal shift candidate customers for destinations such as airports.
Sending the south west coastal traffic to Gatwick via Clapham Junction seems strategically unsound. We have just debated the SWR trains understandably not stopping at CLJ i the peak but this tells the tale of why a different route to Gatwick would be a sensible aim.
During peak rush hour Clapham Junction is currently 1 hour and 5 minutes away from Farnborough if you go via Waterloo or 1 hour 22 minutes to 1 hour 35 minutes or you don't. I'm aware why this is the case but I just wanted to add it all the same. Obviously if your travelling from further west you'd probably change at Woking and that might bring the times down a little as from Woking it's only 49 minutes to 1 hour 14 mintues, if you avoid Waterloo.By the time you've reached Farnborough, Clapham Junction is only 25 minutes away, with Gatwick a further 30 minutes away. People aren't going to change at Farnborough and walk the 15 minutes through a housing estate to get to Farnborough North no matter how many trains you stop there.
I believe there are ways to reduce the cost via Clapahm Junction but that's outside the scope of this discussion. I believe something was mention on the fares forum, so a search might bring something back.I think it was a through (fast) train I was after, but thanks for replies. Has anyone any idea what it's like trying to change at CLJ onto a packed SN train with cases. Not to mention dismounting at the SWR side Gap (deep and wide like the river Jordan ) which is quite frightening for infirm travellers with baggage.
Still the thread is about this new franchise so apols (sort of). One thing that recommends Dorset /Hants to Gatwick via Barnham at the moment is that an off peak return is less than half the price of going via CLJ. I've got an OPR for June, cost £42 for two (railcard), where otherwise it was £100. Isn't that ridiculous?
Thank you, I'll have a look in that thread. I discovered that one can achieve a similar journey time from Southampton to LGW via Woking and Guildford, your own haunts. However that is an extra change and is considerably more expensive than via Barnham, as is via CLJ. It demonstrates how slow the direct Southampton to Gatwick SN trains are (approx 42 miles per hour), but at least you don't have to change. SWR trains deliver you fast to Clapham Junction - but then the scrum on SN follows. I normally travel from the SWR stations on Devon/Somerset border (AXM and CKN) but these fares from Dorchester South via Barnham are so favourable.I believe there are ways to reduce the cost via Clapham Junction but that's outside the scope of this discussion. I believe something was mention on the fares forum, so a search might bring something back.