I have written to my local West Carmarthenshire and South Pembrokeshire MP Simon Hart (Conservative) asking if he knows Network Rail’s start date for the Narberth Tunnel works, and will let you all know.
Exciting times!
Network Rail have cleared the line for IET workings: there's some minor work to do in two locations (neither of which is the Narberth tunnel), but they have been able to issue the gauging certificate.
Just scanned through this thread and it really does read as nothing much but impatience. Inventing a problem, while NR just get on with normal business.Oh look, they fit through Narberth Tunnel, what a surprise...
- the issue at Narberth is the curvature of the tunnel. It is part of a tight horseshoe curve and I doubt the Victorians were thinking about accommodating the protruding ends of 26m coaches when they were building it.
So what are we saying here?
Problems with Narberth tunnel were a Minstry of Disinformation exercise by DfT to justify cutting IC services to Pemroke Dock?
Did DfT ever say they couldn’t use the tunnel?
You started the thread Gareth by questioning whether they could?
Perhaps it was all a misunderstanding on your part and we have had 5 pointless pages of discussion for nothing?
I was being slightly facetious Gareth - hence the smile.I get RAIL and Modern Railways and occasionally Today's aRailways plus I'm on this forum so take your pick as to initial source.......
That's a very interesting theory. However, I cannot recall the DfT ever claiming that there was a problem with Narberth tunnel; the DfT just decided to cut the IC service to Pembroke Dock and gave no reason. A good number of pepole then tried to guess the reason and assumed the tunnel was it.So what are we saying here?
Problems with Narberth tunnel were a Minstry of Disinformation exercise by DfT to justify cutting IC services to Pemroke Dock?
But who actually questioned the ability to fit into the tunnel?
It does seem to have been a hooha over nothing from what we learn today?
Here's the article. The relevant bit is this:I’m having difficulty pasting the link here (sorry), but the Tenby Railway Station Page on Wikipedia has a link (number 11) to an article from 2009 noting the problem.
That Philip Rees quote regarding the coach striking the tunnel is the nearest to anything official I have read that suggested an IEP train would not fit through the tunnel. A chief civil engineer should know a thing or two about railways, and putting two and two together when the DfT released the map that showed no IEP west of Carmarthen it wasn't too big a stretch of the imagination to assume that the tunnel was going to be a problem.Philip Rees, who was chief civil engineer at British Rail’s Western Region when the first IC125s were introduced, said: “They need to look at it very carefully indeed. The overthrow in the middle and the overhang at the ends is bound to be more than the present vehicles. If they’re not careful, they’re going to have a lot of work on their hands.
“West of Plymouth, it’s a very curved route. It’s tight-ish on the Royal Albert Bridge.”
Summer Saturday trains from London still bring crowds of holidaymakers to Pembroke-shire, but modifying the cur-ved single-track tunnel at Narberth for Super Express could be prohibitively expensive. Mr Rees recalled a 21-metre coach striking the tunnel arch in steam days after renewed track was slightly misaligned. He doubted whether 26-metre coaches would pass through.
Certainly a much happier ending than throwing money at that tunnel so that 800s can get to Tenby.Well it appears to be a theory that has finished with a good ending by the sound of things mercifully.
Well it appears to be a theory that has finished with a good ending by the sound of things mercifully.
As per the post directly before yours - no expense required on the tunnel either way.Depends on what you mean by a good ending.
I suspect GWR would far rather see the rolling stock and crews needed to operate interminable summer Saturday trips into West Wales and back to handle largely local bucket-and-spade traffic being put to work elsewhere on its core services, rather than doing something that should be the Wales franchisee's job.
If they are instructed by the DfT in the next direct award franchise to continue to run to Tenby and Pembroke Dock, GWR will just have to get on and do it, but I imagine there may be some frank exchanges of views about it during negotiations - not least because the IEP fleet was presumably not planned to cover these services, which tie up a set for 5 hours + getting from Swansea to Pembroke Dock and back.
Hopefully there are still some pennies in Mr Grayling's pork barrel to foot the bill.
Depends on what you mean by a good ending.
I suspect GWR would far rather see the rolling stock and crews needed to operate interminable summer Saturday trips into West Wales and back to handle largely local bucket-and-spade traffic being put to work elsewhere on its core services, rather than doing something that should be the Wales franchisee's job.
If they are instructed by the DfT in the next direct award franchise to continue to run to Tenby and Pembroke Dock, GWR will just have to get on and do it, but I imagine there may be some frank exchanges of views about it during negotiations - not least because the IEP fleet was presumably not planned to cover these services, which tie up a set for 5 hours + getting from Swansea to Pembroke Dock and back.
Hopefully there are still some pennies in Mr Grayling's pork barrel to foot the bill.
Depends on what you mean by a good ending.
I suspect GWR would far rather see the rolling stock and crews needed to operate interminable summer Saturday trips into West Wales and back to handle largely local bucket-and-spade traffic being put to work elsewhere on its core services, rather than doing something that should be the Wales franchisee's job.
If they are instructed by the DfT in the next direct award franchise to continue to run to Tenby and Pembroke Dock, GWR will just have to get on and do it, but I imagine there may be some frank exchanges of views about it during negotiations - not least because the IEP fleet was presumably not planned to cover these services, which tie up a set for 5 hours + getting from Swansea to Pembroke Dock and back.
Hopefully there are still some pennies in Mr Grayling's pork barrel to foot the bill.
It's this sort of comment, interesting though it is, that drove the thread on to 5 pages.
His doubt about the Victorian engineers' future proofing is proved wrong with Network Rail's Narbeth approval. Thank goodness.
Yes. but aren`t these services on Saturday`s only when there is a less intensive service generally on the main line ?
Yet another significant infrastructure hurdle has turned out to be an enormous red herring - given the spec for the trains stipulated they needed to be able to go anywhere a MkIII coach can, despite the 26m coaches, the confirmation of them being ok through Narberth is of no surprise to me, and I’ve been saying as much since last November.
In the time the round trip from Swansea to Pembroke Dock and back takes, an HST canAnd no doubt there will be howls of outrage on here next summer if GWR dares to send a five-car 800 to Tenby instead of a nine-coach proper express train...
Although the IC125 is sometimes fairly busy to Tenby, I'm not sure all 8 carriages are needed. I could be wrong but from my (quite limited) observations I formed the opinion that what Tenby needs (in summer) is four or five 23m coaches on every train to/from Carmarthen (and beyond) rather than 8x23m on two services and 2x20m on the rest. In that respect, a 5-car 800 with 26m vehicles will probably be fine; my howls of outrage will be directed at the fact that, due to coming from busy London, the westbound will in all likelyhood involve a pair of non-gangwayed units being uncoupled while in passenger service.no doubt there will be howls of outrage on here next summer if GWR dares to send a five-car 800 to Tenby instead of a nine-coach proper express train...
Well as per a couple of post above there will only be 5+car IETs west of Swansea due to Carmarthen start signals....Although the IC125 is sometimes fairly busy to Tenby, I'm not sure all 8 carriages are needed. I could be wrong but from my (quite limited) observations I formed the opinion that what Tenby needs (in summer) is four or five 23m coaches on every train to/from Carmarthen (and beyond) rather than 8x23m on two services and 2x20m on the rest. In that respect, a 5-car 800 with 26m vehicles will probably be fine; my howls of outrage will be directed at the fact that, due to coming from busy London, the westbound will in all likelyhood involve a pair of non-gangwayed units being uncoupled while in passenger service.
Assuming the 800s have in fact been cleared now; is there any chance they will start to appear this summer or can I continue to enjoy IC125s on the service for the rest of this year? Either way, I'd like to figure out how to get a good shot of the train going over the lifting bridge just outside Carmarthen. I think there'd be a good view from an allotment, but I don't know if public access is permitted.
Although the IC125 is sometimes fairly busy to Tenby, I'm not sure all 8 carriages are needed. I could be wrong but from my (quite limited) observations I formed the opinion that what Tenby needs (in summer) is four or five 23m coaches on every train to/from Carmarthen (and beyond) rather than 8x23m on two services and 2x20m on the rest. In that respect, a 5-car 800 with 26m vehicles will probably be fine; my howls of outrage will be directed at the fact that, due to coming from busy London, the westbound will in all likelyhood involve a pair of non-gangwayed units being uncoupled while in passenger service.
Assuming the 800s have in fact been cleared now; is there any chance they will start to appear this summer or can I continue to enjoy IC125s on the service for the rest of this year? Either way, I'd like to figure out how to get a good shot of the train going over the lifting bridge just outside Carmarthen. I think there'd be a good view from an allotment, but I don't know if public access is permitted.
Hi,
Can anybody please tell me if when travelling from London to Tenby on the HST can you alight from the 1st class carriages onto the platform or do you have to walk up the train?
Thanks!