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Class 373 Eurostar withdrawals

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Breadman

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Me and a friend were planning on driving to kingsbury to try and get hold of a business premiere seat to use as an office chair. Does anybody know if the coaches waiting to be scrapped still have seats? Also does emr have good security? I know that some sets are stored in a yard near the site.
 
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DanNCL

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Me and a friend were planning on driving to kingsbury to try and get hold of a business premiere seat to use as an office chair. Does anybody know if the coaches waiting to be scrapped still have seats? Also does emr have good security? I know that some sets are stored in a yard near the site.
They don't accept the next arrival until the previous set has been scrapped, so there's only ever 1 set there (currently 3001/3002, been there a while though so probably mostly scrapped by now). They're actually stored on site, and security is supposedly quite tight, so you're unlikely to be able to get in and grab a seat ;)
 

Breadman

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They don't accept the next arrival until the previous set has been scrapped, so there's only ever 1 set there (currently 3001/3002, been there a while though so probably mostly scrapped by now). They're actually stored on site, and security is supposedly quite tight, so you're unlikely to be able to get in and grab a seat ;)
I will give it a good try!
 

43096

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Is there any way to know what style set I will be on if I only know the date/time of the service and can't manage it online? It's the 13:31 from St. Pancras on June 13th and the 14:56 from Brussels on July 3rd.
I’ve not seen the diagrams out that far (they are posted on another forum) but the 1331 is currently booked for an e320 (Class 374) and the 1456 is/was booked for e300 (Class 373), BUT whilst the issues with e320s at Ashford are resolved, this has been an e320 recently.
 

DanNCL

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Is there any way to know what style set I will be on if I only know the date/time of the service and can't manage it online? It's the 13:31 from St. Pancras on June 13th and the 14:56 from Brussels on July 3rd.
They're both showing as 374s (e320) for those dates. If you make a dummy booking on the trainline's EU website (not the UK website) it tells you whether the service is allocated a 373 (e300) or a 374 (e320). Unfortunately when a service is allocated a 373 there's no way of telling if it will be an unrefurbished set or not, and there's always the possibility of a set swap at the last minute (I think this is more common now with the 374 issues at Ashford)

the 1456 is/was booked for e300 (Class 373), BUT whilst the issues with e320s at Ashford are resolved, this has been an e320 recently.
Currently showing on the trainline's EU website as being booked for a 374 on July 3rd, possibly suggesting that it'll be a while before the 374 issues at Ashford are sorted out...
 

t_star2001uk

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Me and a friend were planning on driving to kingsbury to try and get hold of a business premiere seat to use as an office chair. Does anybody know if the coaches waiting to be scrapped still have seats? Also does emr have good security? I know that some sets are stored in a yard near the site.

I did read somewhere that a person had tried to purchase a seat from EMR but were not allowed. They told him that the contract to scrap them does not allow parts to be sold on to the public. If i find where i read it i'll post a link...
 

cl90001

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I did read somewhere that a person had tried to purchase a seat from EMR but were not allowed. They told him that the contract to scrap them does not allow parts to be sold on to the public. If i find where i read it i'll post a link...

not aloud unfortunately, I know someone who spoke to both EMR and Eurostar asking if they could possibly save something, everything has to be completely dismantled/scrapped.

Eurostar are also not allowing anything from the original interior of sets that are being refurbished/retained to be kept ether.
 

cl90001

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this might be a interest to a few on here, 3305s former nameplate "Yorkshire Forward" is to go under the hammer at a auction on July 14th
 

skyhigh

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I did read somewhere that a person had tried to purchase a seat from EMR but were not allowed. They told him that the contract to scrap them does not allow parts to be sold on to the public. If i find where i read it i'll post a link...

I think you'll find it was Breadman himself, hence my previous comment. Thread here - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-373-seats.161027/
Hi all

as most of us know the class 373 is being scrapped.

Recently I have spoken to Eurostar and EMR Kingsbury about purchasing a used first class seat to turn into an office chair.

They have both said this cannot be done as the recycling contract does not allow spare parts to be sold.

The lady at kingsbury said that my best chance is contacting SNCF.

My knowledge of the French rail TOC is very limited and have no idea who to call.

Can anyone help? :)
 

cl90001

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been confirmed this morning that the next scrap move will indeed be 373201/202 on the 25th/26th May.
 

cl90001

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been reported this morning that 3223/3224s move to Kingsbury on June 29th/30th is now cancelled. Next weeks move (3201/3202) will be the last scrap move for a while, won’t be any more 373 sets going to Kingsbury until at least the end of the year now.
 

DanNCL

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been reported this morning that 3223/3224s move to Kingsbury on June 29th/30th is now cancelled. Next weeks move (3201/3202) will be the last scrap move for a while, won’t be any more 373 sets going to Kingsbury until at least the end of the year now.
Possibly related to the problems with the 374s at Ashford?

I can't think of any other reason why Eurostar would need to keep the unrefurbished 373s for longer.
 

cl90001

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Possibly related to the problems with the 374s at Ashford?

I can't think of any other reason why Eurostar would need to keep the unrefurbished 373s for longer.

Im not sure but I dont think it would be related to the current problems with 374s being able to call at Ashford?? could well be to do with something at Kingsbury??

As for the remaining unrefurbished sets, I presume they will end up being stored at Temple Mills or somewhere untill the scrap moves get going again or swapping them around on diagrams with refurbished sets? not to sure what the current news is on Thalys maybe taking on 2 sets ethier?
 

DanNCL

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Im not sure but I dont think it would be related to the current problems with 374s being able to call at Ashford?? could well be to do with something at Kingsbury??
I believe the withdrawal schedule for the 373s was dependent on 374s taking over diagrams that call at Ashford, so with the 373s still being required for those diagrams for the forseeable future Eurostar probably need the extra 4 373s.

As far as I'm aware Kingsbury don't accept the next set until almost all of the previous one has been scrapped, so unless either EMR or Eurostar have pulled out of the contract I can't see that being the reason why with the exception of 3201/3202 no more sets are going.

I assume that if the 374 issues at Ashford turn out to be too severe to resolve (entirely possible as the issues are apparently due to interference between the train's electric systems and the third rail in the Ashford area, which causes an electronics card on the train to "fry" and that electronics card is a key part of the French signalling system, the 373s don't have these interference issues) then refurbishing the remaining unrefurbished sets might be an option rather than sending them for scrap? (if the 374s won't be able to call at Ashford then the only other option for Eurostar would be to reduce the number of calls they make at Ashford so that the 7 refurbished 373s can cover them all.)
As for the remaining unrefurbished sets, I presume they will end up being stored at Temple Mills or somewhere untill the scrap moves get going again or swapping them around on diagrams with refurbished sets?
The unrefurbished and refurbished 373s share diagrams anyway, so I imagine that'll probably remain as it currently is.

not to sure what the current news is on Thalys maybe taking on 2 sets ethier?
I believe they are, but only as a source of spare parts for their TGV Reseau fleet (which in many ways are very similar to the 373s) and as such won't see service with Thalys.
 

AlexNL

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Rumour has it that a 373 will be used for the Izy service between Paris and Brussels.
 

43096

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Rumour has it that a 373 will be used for the Izy service between Paris and Brussels.
Ah, but would that be a full length 373 or one of the still-stored shortened North of London sets?
 

cl90001

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Ah, but would that be a full length 373 or one of the still-stored shortened North of London sets?

at a guess it will be a full length set with Thalys set to take on the last 2 unrefurbished sets, would make sense as x2 Thalys sets (as 1 service) are roughly the equivalent of a full length TMST
 

cl90001

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I believe the withdrawal schedule for the 373s was dependent on 374s taking over diagrams that call at Ashford, so with the 373s still being required for those diagrams for the forseeable future Eurostar probably need the extra 4 373s.

As far as I'm aware Kingsbury don't accept the next set until almost all of the previous one has been scrapped, so unless either EMR or Eurostar have pulled out of the contract I can't see that being the reason why with the exception of 3201/3202 no more sets are going.

I assume that if the 374 issues at Ashford turn out to be too severe to resolve (entirely possible as the issues are apparently due to interference between the train's electric systems and the third rail in the Ashford area, which causes an electronics card on the train to "fry" and that electronics card is a key part of the French signalling system, the 373s don't have these interference issues) then refurbishing the remaining unrefurbished sets might be an option rather than sending them for scrap? (if the 374s won't be able to call at Ashford then the only other option for Eurostar would be to reduce the number of calls they make at Ashford so that the 7 refurbished 373s can cover them all.)

The unrefurbished and refurbished 373s share diagrams anyway, so I imagine that'll probably remain as it currently is.


I believe they are, but only as a source of spare parts for their TGV Reseau fleet (which in many ways are very similar to the 373s) and as such won't see service with Thalys.


Indeed that 374s being able to call at Ashford Intl would be a move that would see the last remaining non refurbished 373 sets withdrawn from service, Kingsbury indeed do not accept the next set (as you say) until most if not all of the previous scrap move has been dealt with.

Yes it would be ideal to maybe keep the sets and refurbish a couple more to help with the problem until it can be sorted (if it can be sorted that is), it might get sorted at some point although I’m not sure how they will do that? maybe more new equipment or modifications needed to both Ashford and E320s (although this probably won’t happen)?

Not sure how much work the remaining non refurbished sets will see once the final 2 sets come back from refurbishment, obviously those 2 sets won’t go back into traffic straight away, Eurostar will of course continue to swap sets around.
 

cl90001

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**posted on another forum just a few moments ago**

From a Dutch language rail forum via Google translate ...

There will soon be a TMST show between Brussels and Paris. Izy has rented one from us. The training of the instructors (both drivers and supervisors) has been completed this week. When they are going to drive and how he is going to look, I do not know yet. But there is one (provisionally) saved from the demolisher
 

DanNCL

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**posted on another forum just a few moments ago**

From a Dutch language rail forum via Google translate ...

There will soon be a TMST show between Brussels and Paris. Izy has rented one from us. The training of the instructors (both drivers and supervisors) has been completed this week. When they are going to drive and how he is going to look, I do not know yet. But there is one (provisionally) saved from the demolisher
Having had a look at another forum I get the impression that Izy are looking at taking the NoL sets, rather than the remaining unrefurbished 3 capitals sets. If this does happen then that's great news that the NoL sets have potentially found a new home. Not so great for the unrefurbished 3 capitals sets though...

Indeed that 374s being able to call at Ashford Intl would be a move that would see the last remaining non refurbished 373 sets withdrawn from service, Kingsbury indeed do not accept the next set (as you say) until most if not all of the previous scrap move has been dealt with.
Just the power cars from the previous set left when they accept the next one iirc.

Yes it would be ideal to maybe keep the sets and refurbish a couple more to help with the problem until it can be sorted (if it can be sorted that is), it might get sorted at some point although I’m not sure how they will do that? maybe more new equipment or modifications needed to both Ashford and E320s (although this probably won’t happen)?
I'm no technical expert here so may be completely wrong, but I think because of the nature of the 374 issues at Ashford (interference with the third rail) they may never be able to call there. I suspect that for the 374s to be able to call there the third rail would have to be removed, which obviously can't happen because the Southeastern EMUs require it! I could be completely wrong here though!
 

59CosG95

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I'm no technical expert here so may be completely wrong, but I think because of the nature of the 374 issues at Ashford (interference with the third rail) they may never be able to call there. I suspect that for the 374s to be able to call there the third rail would have to be removed, which obviously can't happen because the Southeastern EMUs require it! I could be completely wrong here though!
I suspect that as the Eurostar services are dedicatedly using P3 and P4, there's not much of a problem with the 3rd rail in those two specific platforms (IIRC it was removed as Eurostar trains no longer use shoegear). The problem may be that P3/4 has to be trimmed back a considerable amount to allow the tracks to then be slewed (realigned) to accept them, particularly near the Through Lines (between P2 & P3). This map here should help.
 

gordonjahn

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Having had a look at another forum I get the impression that Izy are looking at taking the NoL sets, rather than the remaining unrefurbished 3 capitals sets. If this does happen then that's great news that the NoL sets have potentially found a new home. Not so great for the unrefurbished 3 capitals sets though...


Just the power cars from the previous set left when they accept the next one iirc.


I'm no technical expert here so may be completely wrong, but I think because of the nature of the 374 issues at Ashford (interference with the third rail) they may never be able to call there. I suspect that for the 374s to be able to call there the third rail would have to be removed, which obviously can't happen because the Southeastern EMUs require it! I could be completely wrong here though!

Does anyone know the technical details of the 3rd rail problem? The e300s don't have third rail shoes any more, let alone the e320s, so my novice head says it must be an issue with the neutral / track currents which would mean when 3rd rail trains are near, they're causing voltage spikes in the signals to the TVM gear, or specific frequencies that are hitting the tuned components in the TVM equipment.
 

DanNCL

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I suspect that as the Eurostar services are dedicatedly using P3 and P4, there's not much of a problem with the 3rd rail in those two specific platforms (IIRC it was removed as Eurostar trains no longer use shoegear). The problem may be that P3/4 has to be trimmed back a considerable amount to allow the tracks to then be slewed (realigned) to accept them, particularly near the Through Lines (between P2 & P3). This map here should help.
The third rail is still in situ in the Eurostar platforms: (presumably taken in April as the 374s were only calling at Ashford for about a week)
20180403_145004.jpg

(not my image)

Does anyone know the technical details of the 3rd rail problem? The e300s don't have third rail shoes any more, let alone the e320s, so my novice head says it must be an issue with the neutral / track currents which would mean when 3rd rail trains are near, they're causing voltage spikes in the signals to the TVM gear, or specific frequencies that are hitting the tuned components in the TVM equipment.
That makes sense. I knew it was something to do with an electrics card related to the French signaling systems (either KVB or TVM, not sure which), so that would probably explain why 374s can't currently stop at Ashford. Potentially this problem might be quite difficult to resolve?
 

Fred43123

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Is there any information about when the E320s are gonna start to call at Ashford again? I’m booking a trip to Brussels in June and just hoping the issues are still on going then so I can get a TMST both ways
 

cl90001

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I haven’t seen anything new regarding this, the issue is still ongoing though, only thing I can report is that there appears to be a slight shortage of E320 sets at the moment due to sets undergoing software updates to allow them to run to Amsterdam (not all sets fitted with the correct software at present), today’s 08:31 London to Amsterdam required 2 E320s, one from London-Brussels (4027/4028) and then passengers changing on to another E320 for the Brussels-Amsterdam leg
 

sd0733

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3201 is at the buffers at st pancras still with all the internal lights on, the coffee machines on, posters still in the frames and all the magazine's still in the racks! Having a close look at it and there are some massive patches of rust on it

2 other unrefurbished 373s were in the station at the time one being 3224. Must be a rare sight these days.IMG-20180525-WA0005.jpeg
 
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urpert

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3201 is at the buffers at st pancras still with all the internal lights on, the coffee machines on, posters still in the frames and all the magazine's still in the racks! Having a close look at it and there are some massive patches of rust on it

2 other unrefurbished 373s were in the station at the time one being 3224. Must be a rare sight these days.View attachment 47291

You can see right through the side panels of some of the unrefurbished power cars... I wonder why they are so much rustier than (eg) Class 91 of similar vintage?
 
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