ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Highland37]

How many sets have entered the refurb programme?

 

[Northhighland]

I don't believe that 385 delays are impacting on the HST introduction at all - it's the HST refurb delays that are having an impact on HST introduction!

My understanding of the stock situation around 385s/365s/170s/HSTs...

• 385s with windscreen mods are passed for passenger service and a small number (less than 10) have had the mods. These are likely to enter service in the next couple of weeks. Remaining units will be modded but this will probably happen fairly quickly.
• 10 365s (as of a couple of hours ago) are in Scotland and 6 or 8 of those are modded and good for service - they are expected to stay here for a year.
• There were a total of 16 170s to go to Northern - 4 in March, 6 in July and 6 in November.
• 4x modified HST sets were to be available for the May timetable change, this didn't happen and Scotrail have apparently asked about using unmodified stock from December

I suspect the reason that 365s were gauge cleared for more than just the E&G suggests that they will end up covering what were planned to stay as diesel routes pending the completion of 385 deliveries to cover for the delayed HSTs, but that another difficult period is on the way, hence the request to operate unmodified stock from December.

It looks like 365s will now easily cover the 170s going south in July and there should almost certainly be enough 385s in service by November to cover those too (if not moving 365s off the core E&G route as well) - this should really be the situation by mid-July but training/mileage accumulation/rostering will all need to settle down. December (or "after October") should also bring electrification of Stirling/Dunblane/Alloa (SDA) and could use 365/385 depending upon availability (was SDA one of the gauge-cleared routes for 365s?), freeing up DMUs. It's just whether there's enough electrification in November to free up enough DMUs to cover for those leaving and the "missing" HSTs... SDA, Grahamston and possibly Shotts services would be the likely candidates.

I've been critical about some operational decisions, but I'm actually pretty impressed with the part of Abellio Scotrail looking after all of this - they are juggling rolling stock procurement/testing, refurbishment delays, electrification projects, drivers, guards and training and pretty much managing to keep the show on the road.

Would be great to get the unmodified HST ‘s in service. If the door mod is going to take time it makes no sense not to use them.

The overcrowding on some of the services is a joke. So at least get thing s improved.

Also need to understand what is going on at Wabtec. Why are they so far behind. Seems like they are either lacking resource or planning in some way.

 

[Highland37]

How far behind are they?

 

[The_Engineer]

Also need to understand what is going on at Wabtec. Why are they so far behind. Seems like they are either lacking resource or planning in some way.

I have seen photographs taken recently at Doncaster station where you can see a large hoarding at the works advertising for just about every type of trade......

 

[43096]

I have seen photographs taken recently at Doncaster station where you can see a large hoarding at the works advertising for just about every type of trade......

Yes, believe they are short of staff - they will have lost some to the new Hitachi depot.

 

[InOban]

I'm sure I read somewhere that they had lost a lot of their skilled engineers from Eastern Europe.

 

[Highland37]

I can imagine as all sectors are suffering from the Brexit/right wing effect right now. Health being one of the most important. However, *if* it's a workforce issue, this goes beyond Brexit etc and they have promised more than what they can deliver.

 

[Chris125]

Was also thinking it's been awfully quiet lately. I seem to recall Alex Hynes saying that there will be one in passenger service by July, so hopefully that is still the case.

It was merely an 'aspiration', very wise given the circumstances - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-44054334

"Mr Hynes said a delay in refitting the vehicles meant it was his "aspiration" that the first of the new trains would begin service in July, but he was "not in a position to give a firm date" for this"

 

[Northhighland]

It was merely an 'aspiration', very wise given the circumstances - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-44054334

"Mr Hynes said a delay in refitting the vehicles meant it was his "aspiration" that the first of the new trains would begin service in July, but he was "not in a position to give a firm date" for this"

Surely this is time for plan B? The original date given for the first set was in May. Surely we need to get the sets into use without the door mod. I assume that the training that is currently going on in quite regularly will need to be redone if the trains don't arrive in a certain period?

 

[Grumpy]

I can imagine as all sectors are suffering from the Brexit/right wing effect right now.

Tosh.

Whilst ever the UK continues to spend more abroad than it earns abroad the value of the pound will steadily decline.​

When the value of the pound goes down the money remitted "home" becomes worth less, so coming to the UK to work becomes less appealing.

 

[InOban]

The truth will, as usual, be somewhere between. The antipathy and uncertainty around Brexit will be one factor. The increasingly better job opportunities in other EU countries will be another. I think the steady fall in unemployment has been at least partly due to employers being forced to employ people already resident in the UK

It must also be remembered that the main fall in the£ occurred on the day after the referendum.

 

[cf111]

A sneak preview of the outside of a refurbished coach from Alex Hynes on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/AlexHynes/status/982288432327163904

I very much approve of the prominent and hopefully obvious to passengers coach letter indicator. On almost every journey I sit in coach C on a 170 and I would say in 2/3 journeys I would say that I am asked to move by the holder of a reservation which is actually at the other end of the train!

White "H"'s have appeared on the platform surfaces at Inverness, I am assuming for stop boards.

 

[InOban]

That tweet dates from April, doesn't it?

 

[kje7812]

6th April to be exact.

 

[cf111]

6th April to be exact.

That tweet dates from April, doesn't it?

I have conspired to load the thread from page 65 instead of 73 by typing the title into the Firefox address bar rather than navigating to it normally!

 

[47271]

I very much approve of the prominent and hopefully obvious to passengers coach letter indicator. On almost every journey I sit in coach C on a 170 and I would say in 2/3 journeys I would say that I am asked to move by the holder of a reservation which is actually at the other end of the train!

Yes, isn't it funny how those with reservations in Coach A always head directly to Coach C! Scotrail coach lettering is way more feeble than it needs to be, it definitely used to be clearer under First.

 

[nat67]

How far behind are they?

Very is the word.

 

[Northhighland]

Very is the word.

Surely time for a rethink then? Get the units in service with slam doors.

 

[ld0595]

Surely time for a rethink then? Get the units in service with slam doors.

There’s some rumours going round that they have applied to run slam door stock from December. I guess we’ll see soon if that goes ahead, but considering how’s far behing the program is, I think it will be necessary.

 

[najaB]

There’s some rumours going round that they have applied to run slam door stock from December. I guess we’ll see soon if that goes ahead, but considering how’s far behing the program is, I think it will be necessary.

I hope that it isn't. Running slam door stock would mean that a lot of the potential timetable improvements won't happen - in fact it would get worse as they'd need to have a longer dwell time than 170s.

 

[Northhighland]

I hope that it isn't. Running slam door stock would mean that a lot of the potential timetable improvements won't happen - in fact it would get worse as they'd need to have a longer dwell time than 170s.

To be honest if it means not standing to Perth I would take that.

 

[92002]

To be honest if it means not standing to Perth I would take that.

Seems very strange that if Wabtec at Doncaster are struggling that Wabtec at Kilmarnock have not been given the opportunity of carrying out some of the conversion work.

 

[gingertom]

Seems very strange that if Wabtec at Doncaster are struggling that Wabtec at Kilmarnock have not been given the opportunity of carrying out some of the conversion work.

is Kilmarnock tooled up to carry out this sort of conversion?

 

[route101]

Yes, isn't it funny how those with reservations in Coach A always head directly to Coach C! Scotrail coach lettering is way more feeble than it needs to be, it definitely used to be clearer under First.

Are the sets often the wrong way round ? Have this problem on 185s and 350s too

 

[route:oxford]

To be honest if it means not standing to Perth I would take that.

If Chiltern can manage to run a slam-door crowdbuster, I'm sure that Scotrail could as well.

A 2+6 HST should be more than capable of out-accelerating the 3+3 Turbo or 2+2 158.

Looking at the public timetable, the 17:40 from Glasgow to Aberdeen calls at Stirling for 4 minutes. That's exactly the same length of time as the Highland Chieftain calls at Stirling.

 

[Bungle965]

If Chiltern can manage to run a slam-door crowdbuster, I'm sure that Scotrail could as well.

A 2+6 HST should be more than capable of out-accelerating the 3+3 Turbo or 2+2 158.

Looking at the public timetable, the 17:40 from Glasgow to Aberdeen calls at Stirling for 4 minutes. That's exactly the same length of time as the Highland Chieftain calls at Stirling.

ScotRail already do, in the form of the Fife Circle loco hauled sets.
Sam

 

[XCTurbostar]

I think this slam-door argument will be about capacity rather than timings. ScotRail are being squeezed with units going to northern. It will honestly depend how far behind the program is and whether there are other units scheduled to come off lease soon.

 

[mullac30]

Will the rumoured slam door sets be fully refurbished sans power doors?

 

[najaB]

Will the rumoured slam door sets be fully refurbished sans power doors?

Probably not. The conversion basically entails cutting massive chunks of the ends off the carriages so they won't want to risk damaging the new interior.

 

[Non Multi]

A picture of the first modified SR rake at Wabtec. https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/1017747774035685380