Report suggests vaping on buses and trains "should be considered"

[Domh245]

Are there any studies on the long-term health effects of vaping? If not, it should be treated the same as smoking until such time as the evidence shows that it's safe.

It's only been a 'thing' for under a decade so I'd be very surprised if there have been.

Interestingly enough, earlier in the week, the University of Birmingham did release some research about vaping. Admittedly it's more short/medium term than long term, and was only under lab conditions (rather than a proper medical study), but still - hardly encouraging.

Research led by the University of Birmingham has found that vapourised e-liquid fluid has a similar effect on the lungs and body that is seen in regular cigarette smokers and patients with chronic lung disease.

The research, published in Thorax and funded by the British Lung Foundation, shows that e-liquid that has been vapourised through the use of an electronic ‘e-cigarette’ boosts the production of inflammatory chemicals and disables key protective cells in the lungs that keep the air spaces clear of potentially harmful particles.

They found that vapour impairs the activity of cells, called alveolar macrophages, which are key to the immune response within the airways. Alveolar macrophages engulf and remove dust, bacteria, and allergens that have evaded the other mechanical defences of the respiratory tract.

The findings have prompted the researchers to suggest that, while further studies are needed to better understand the health effects of vaping on people, e-cigarettes may be more harmful than we think.

Professor David Thickett, of the University of Birmingham’s Institute of Inflammation and Ageing, said: “Cigarette smoking is associated with the cause of almost every lung disease – lung cancer, asthma, COPD and fibrosis.

“It has been suggested electronic cigarettes are safer than traditional cigarettes, and this narrative is increasingly supported by tobacco companies that have established research institutes devoted to generating supportive data.

“E-cigarette users have been given advice based on relatively little information. We hope that by disseminating this data as widely as possible the public can at least make an informed choice; the public must be aware that these devices are not harmless.

“We hope this information will be taken on board by advisory bodies when considering their public advice strategy. We also hope this highlights the need for dedicated funding and research to determine the long term effects of e-cigarette usage.”

Dr Aaron Scott, also of the University of Birmingham’s Institute of Inflammation and Ageing, said: “Several previous studies have examined the effects of unvaped e-cigarette liquid however, it is well established that the vapourising process changes the chemical composition of the liquid.

“The use of vaped liquid in our study makes this a better reflection of the exposure of the user, allowing us to examine whether e-cigarettes have a negative impact on the viability and function of cells called alveolar macrophages, which are key to the immune response within the airways.

“Our work clearly shows that vapourised e-cigarette fluid is toxic to living cells; increases the production of inflammatory chemicals; and inhibits the function of cells that are key to the immune stystem.

“Importantly, we found that exposure of these cells to e-cigarette vapour induced many of the same cellular and functional changes in function seen in cigarette smokers and patients with COPD.

"While further research is needed to fully understand the effects of e-cigarette exposure in humans in vivo, we suggest continued caution against the widely held opinion that e-cigarettes are safe.”

To find out the impact of vaping e-liquid, the researchers devised a mechanical procedure to mimic vaping and produce ‘condensate’ from the vapour.

They extracted alveolar macrophages from lung tissue samples provided by eight non-smokers who had never had asthma or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD).

A third of the cells were exposed to plain e-cigarette fluid, a third to different strengths of the artificially vaped condensate with and without nicotine, and a third to nothing for 24 hours.

The results showed that the condensate was significantly more harmful to the cells than e-cigarette fluid and that these effects worsened as the 'dose' increased.

After 24 hours of exposure the total number of viable cells exposed to the vaped condensate was significantly reduced compared to the 'untreated' cells, and condensate containing nicotine exaggerated this effect.

Exposure to the condensate increased cell death and boosted production of oxygen free radicals 50-fold and significantly increased the production of inflammatory chemicals - more so with condensate containing nicotine.

What's more, the ability of cells exposed to vaped condensate to engulf bacteria was significantly impaired, although treatment with an antioxidant restored this function and helped lessen some of the other harmful effects.

The researchers conclude that the vaping process itself can damage vital immune system cells, at least under laboratory conditions.

 

[InspectorBloke]

I would have thought a few people smoking those 'steam train' type vapes could cause a visibility hazard on a bus!

In all seriousness, as a vaper (or smoker on a bad day!), I wouldn't want to vape on a bus out of consideration to others and I would like to think that most vapers think the same.

Like takeaways, alcohol, smoking, loud music, swearing etc is discouraged or banned on public transport to maintain harmony, Vaping should remain banned too.

 

[najaB]

We know (don't we?) that tobacco smoke is genuinely dangerous, so why aren't we all dead then?

I hope this is a rhetorical device, because of it's meant literally then science education is dead in this country.

 

[route101]

Someone quite often smokes a vape on the bus i get quite often , getting a waft of it is no fun. Try and sit away from him.

 

[Swanny200]

I am a vaper and to be honest I'm against it too, there are two forms of vaping through two types of devices, you get the pen devices which are mostly MTL (Mouth to lung) vaping, basically the same as you would have with a normal cigarette, this means you take the vapour, inhale then exhale. Then you get the DTL Direct to Lung) vapes, these are the ones that are attached to the big boxes that give off the big clouds, people confuse these as being all the same but they are not, however I still don't wish to see them on public transport when there is little ventilation at times.

I MTL and it is akin to a normal cigarette in terms of what is exhaled, I tried DTL once and nearly ended up coughing up a lung.

The headaches can be caused by an ingredient in the vaping juice, usually menthol or mint related juice, I have been told this by my local vape shop and there is still not enough evidence that this ingredient does not linger in the vapour that is exhaled.

You will also find that some police forces are looking into banning vaping in cars as the amount of vape released upon exhale can obscure the vision of the driver even with a window open, this really should only apply to DTL but will probably encompass all vapers.

 

[adrock1976]

Thinking about government intervention in regards to e- cigarettes, the cynic in me interprets this being about a possibility of introducing a tax on them, especially if sales of conventional tobacco products decrease.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The answer is surely - a la Holland / Germany - have dedicated smoking areas - if need be for vapers only - at station areas. Not rocket science is it. ?

 

[najaB]

The answer is surely...

At stations, fine. Onboard, no way. And stop calling me Shirley.

 

[The Ham]

I would have thought a few people smoking those 'steam train' type vapes could cause a visibility hazard on a bus!

In all seriousness, as a vaper (or smoker on a bad day!), I wouldn't want to vape on a bus out of consideration to others and I would like to think that most vapers think the same.

Like takeaways, alcohol, smoking, loud music, swearing etc is discouraged or banned on public transport to maintain harmony, Vaping should remain banned too.

Quite, if I were to board a train, bus, etc. and start spraying deodorant I would probably get told to stop in no uncertain terms (or at least have a load of people start coughing).

Why should vaping be any different?

It doesn't matter if it's safer or not, whether it helps so people from smoking or not. Spraying a strong smelling substance in a confined space should not be acceptable behaviour.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

At stations, fine. Onboard, no way. And stop calling me Shirley.

A fair compromise I reckon.

 

[Rail Blues]

I sincerely hope that this is a piece of silly season news that will get kicked into the long grass, I can vividly recall the fug and stench of the smokers carriage, winding back the clock to choke up carriages with clouds of smoke and the vile cocktail of smells from e cigarettes (or douche flutes as I've heard them called).

There is no need for this or any great clamour from the travelling public to go back to the situation where your hair and clothes would stink to high heaven or sit in an thick haze of vapour, all because some selfish folk are too weak willed to last a journey without a nicotine hit.

 

[GusB]

I'm currently a smoker (although, hopefully not for much longer). I'm used to the idea that what I do is now quite socially unacceptable, and becoming less so as time marches on. Banning smoking from public places was a good idea, and I'm prepared to be banned and banished to a certain extent. Vaping is something I've tried and don't really get on with, and I'm totally against it being permitted where smoking may have previously been allowed for the following reasons:
1) Some vaping substances are repulsive, even to those of us who do still engage in the old habit.
2) Why should I be forbidden from having my nicotine hit when others are allowed, when the whole point of vaping is that it's supposed to be an aid to quitting?

If changing behaviour was one of the aims of the smoking ban, it has worked with me. I can't sit at the bar and puff away any more, so I have to go outside. If it's bitterly cold outside, I think twice - do I really need one? I really don't see a problem with having a smoke on an open platform at a station if there's nobody else around, but if the rules forbid it, so be it - I shall abide by them. Vapers should also have to abide by those same rules, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Butts]

Speaking as a B&H devotee of 35 years plus vaping is to smoking as methadone is to heroin (I imagine).

Not the real thing but a substitute to aid giving up.

 

[najaB]

Not the real thing but a substitute to aid giving up.

If only (methadone v heroin) - it's about harm-reduction to people around them, not getting them off the stuff. I see a *LOT* of them around the town centre and there's quite often a queue at the little both in Boots.

Many of them have been on methadone for years, and likely will be until they fall asleep in a doorway in winter, choke on their vomit or fall down some stairs.

 

[Rail Blues]

Speaking as a B&H devotee of 35 years plus vaping is to smoking as methadone is to heroin (I imagine).

Not the real thing but a substitute to aid giving up.

The evidence isn't that clear, there's contradictory accounts as to whether they help ween people off nicotine or whether they are a harm reduction measure in which long term smokers switch to being long term vapers.

 

[Crossover]

Can you imagine the top deck of a bus, all Windows shut, with 30 people vaping, 30 different flavours/smells? Stench would be horrible not to mention you couldn't even see if there was an empty seat

I have experienced one person vaping on the top deck of a bus before - it was like sitting next to a steam locomotive! Horrible things when used like that!

 

[thenorthern]

I can't see the rules being changed for trains as its rare that rules are lifted for passengers.

I hope they don't change the rules are the flavoured vapes such as blueberry make a horrible sweet smell for other passengers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't see the rules being changed for trains as its rare that rules are lifted for passengers.

I hope they don't change the rules are the flavoured vapes such as blueberry make a horrible sweet smell for other passengers.

As I said I don't overly mind about the health aspect, but I do think it's unpleasant and highly inconsiderate to vape where someone else can breathe it - I'd genuinely rather they smoked, I find tobacco smoke far less unpleasant than thick clouds of sickly sweet vape.

 

[Cowley]

I’m also someone who used a Vape to give up smoking. I went onto the thing so that I still had something to suck (as the actress said to the bishop) while I was quitting. Over a few weeks I was able to separate the addition (nicotine) from the habit (puffing on something).
It was never a case of enjoying the different flavours like some kind of lifestyle thing, but it did the job.
In no way would I have found it acceptable to inflict it upon others though. Least of all in a confined space...

Funny to think back to when I’d sit on the top deck of a Devon General VR on the way into school in the eighties and nearly always end up sitting in front of an old dear (the seat in front of her was always empty for some reason..) with yellow skin and a hacking cough who chain smoked and coughed over my back all the way into Exeter.
Hmm, I wonder what became of her in the end..?

Edit - And another thing. I couldn’t believe how strong cigarette smoke smelt once I’d given up. It’s eye watering.

 

[Macwomble]

Personally I find the stench from cigarettes & vapes utterly repulsive. If they allow vaping on trains & busses you'll find me using the car MORE rather than less (as I'd much prefer to do).

 

[bussnapperwm]

If they want to vape and travel, we could always convert pacers into dedicated smoking/vaping trains!

 

[najaB]

If they want to vape and travel, we could always convert pacers into dedicated smoking/vaping trains!

There's rules against cruel and inhuman treatment.

 

[bussnapperwm]

There's rules against cruel and inhuman treatment.

Tell that to the Northern and Valley commuters.

Could be worse. Could have offered a Class 139

 

[najaB]

Tell that to the Northern and Valley commuters.

A Pacer is bad enough, never mind one full of vape.

 

[Starmill]

For me, the most significant reason (among others) why I don't think that vaping should be permitted on public transport (ideally in law but certainly not under company policy) is because it could reduce the efficacy of the actual smoking ban.

For example, imagine you are the bus driver and a passenger comes over to complain that someone is smoking a tobacco on the bus. You lock up your cab, come to the back of the bus and can smell the smoke.

"Excuse me Sir, we do not allow smoking on this bus. Could you extinguish that please."
"I'm not smoking, I'm vaping. That's allowed isn't it?"
"It is, but I believe you are smoking. I can smell the smoke."
"Nope, it's definitely not smoke. I'm vaping."
"But it smells very strongly like real smoke to me. I will have to ask you to leave, Sir, if you refuse to stop."
"I'm not doing anything wrong. Your company policy clearly permits vaping on this bus. I won't leave."

What do you do? Call the police? Cancel the bus and inconvenience all of the other passengers? Or do nothing and continue, allowing the person smoking to flout the law and put the health of other passengers at risk, resulting in the inevitable complaints?

 

[thenorthern]

Do any airlines still permit vaping? I know EasyJet did for a while but now I don't think they do. I know Wetherspoons has banned them and several other pubs have well which is strange given that 15 years ago pubs were often full of smoke.

One thing I have noticed is the design of e-cig has changed over the past few years as at first e-cigs looked like real cigarettes complete with glowing tip. Now e-cigs are a strange shape but are obviously not conventional cigarettes which is useful.

I can't see the government acting on the report as it's rare for them to legalise things that are or may be harmful. A common example is cannabis which in recent years has become legal in some jurisdictions such as Canada, California, Uraguay and The Netherlands however in the United Kingdom other than for exceptional medicinal purposes the government has made it absolutely clear that they have no intention of legalising or decriminalising cannabis which is a policy I can't ever see changing.

 

[The Ham]

I can't see the government acting on the report

There's simple things, like reviewing this distance children are expected to walk to school (currently up to 3 miles for 8 year olds), thats been agreed need reviewing yet MP's haven't and it's taken them 9 years and counting.

As such I wouldn't hold it much hope for something which splits opinion.

 

[Butts]

As I said I don't overly mind about the health aspect, but I do think it's unpleasant and highly inconsiderate to vape where someone else can breathe it - I'd genuinely rather they smoked, I find tobacco smoke far less unpleasant than thick clouds of sickly sweet vape.

Excellent idea, you have my vote !!

 

[thenorthern]

As such I wouldn't hold it much hope for something which splits opinion.

There would probably have to be an expensive review into the matter which would show customer feedback doesn't want vaping on trains. When GNER banned smoking in 2005 (the last operator to do so) they stated that public feedback showed that most passengers didn't want smoking on trains back then around 20-25% of the population smoked now the number of smokers/vapers is about 15%.

One thing to remember though with smoking as that the United Kingdom has some of the strictest no-smoking laws in the world thanks to Patricia Hewitt in that unless you work in an oil rig you can't smoke indoors at work no exceptions. In other countries in Europe indoor smoking rooms are often still allowed.

 

[Swanny200]

I think they even tried banning smoking in some prisons.

I do remember someone saying (unsure of true) that in one of the prisons, they are allowed to smoke in their cells, but the prison officers have to smoke outside as it is a workplace. How does that work!!!

There was also a rule that nurses on home visits used to ask that half an hour before their arrival you refrain from smoking, it just ended up with nurses smoking with their clients.

Oh... And the smoking in works vehicles, still goes on to this day!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think they even tried banning smoking in some prisons.

I do remember someone saying (unsure of true) that in one of the prisons, they are allowed to smoke in their cells, but the prison officers have to smoke outside as it is a workplace. How does that work!!!

Similar to hotels (though for business reasons, i.e. saving cleaning costs and that most people don't like the smell of smoking rooms, most now ban smoking). A residential unit, even a temporary one, is excepted for residents.

 

[thenorthern]

I think they even tried banning smoking in some prisons.

I do remember someone saying (unsure of true) that in one of the prisons, they are allowed to smoke in their cells, but the prison officers have to smoke outside as it is a workplace. How does that work!!!

There was also a rule that nurses on home visits used to ask that half an hour before their arrival you refrain from smoking, it just ended up with nurses smoking with their clients.

Oh... And the smoking in works vehicles, still goes on to this day!

Similar to hotels (though for business reasons most now ban smoking). A residential unit, even a temporary one, is excepted for residents.

Yes residential areas although not shared areas (such as communal areas) are exempt, the prison is the prisoners home but its the workplace of the prison officer. Its the same with old people's homes where the residents can smoke but the staff can't. Offshore oil rigs while technically a workplace are exempt as it's not safe to smoke outside.

Tobacco shops which make more than 50% of their income from pipe tobacco, cigars and loose tobacco but not cigarettes are legally allowed to let customers sample tobacco in the shop.

 

[Shaun Twails]

I'm hugely against this, we can not allow vaping on public transport. It's not safe for anyone involved and I for one don't want to be sitting on a train whilst someone blows vape into my face.