RMT dispute on Merseyrail

[Carlisle]

30th July 2018


RMT general secretary Mick Cash added:

“RMT is writing to Merseyrail tonight giving them until 31st August 2018 to agree a deal in principle that underpins the guard guarantee.”‎

I thought at the start of the ACAS talks RMT accepted the outcome might not definitely conclude in a second safety critical person on every train at all times , however their above statement appears to contradict this, and hints at problems if such a commitment isn’t made by a certain date.

 

[urbophile]

I don't quite know what you mean by Merseyside, but Bache station is unstaffed and is one of the few with a TVM.
I think Capenhurst is the same.
Both in Cheshire of course.

'Merseyside' is the old metropolitan county within which all Merseyrail stations endeavour to maintain a staff presence.It doesn't always happen of course. I'm not sure about the Lancashire stations on the Ormskirk line, but otherwise the Cheshire ones are the only ones to be unstaffed and hence have TVMs, which on the rest of the network are far from universal.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ormskirk, Aughton Park and Town Green are staffed for the full period of service. Ormskirk has a cash only TVM (a rare breed!) in addition.

 

[CN75]

I thought at the start of the ACAS talks RMT accepted the outcome might not definitely conclude in a second safety critical person on every train at all times , however their above statement appears to contradict this, and hints at problems if such a commitment isn’t made by a certain date.

The statement as good as says if we don’t get a guard for every train then we will go back on strike. Doubtless this is because if any other outcome surfaces, RMT’s leadership could be accused of being duped by an angry membership.

A rest from the hostilities will have helped both sides recover for more battles though. RMT members and ASLEF drivers can have built up some funds lost from all the strikes and Merseyrail have deflected the political attention away and had lots of time for a tactical rethink.

 

[kw12]

30th July 2018
NEWS RELEASE
Immediate

JOINT STATEMENT ON MERSEYRAIL GUARDS' DISPUTE

Joint statement from RMT, Merseytravel and the Metro Mayor on the Merseyrail guards’ dispute following a meeting today:

“The meeting was scheduled to enable an update on the ACAS process to date from the RMT’s perspective and we discussed the next phase of the negotiations. Today’s discussions have been positive and constructive and we have made good progress in agreeing a roadmap for further discussions and meetings as we work towards a mutually agreeable solution to the dispute.

“All parties are agreed that, whilst these further discussions take place, we will maintain the confidentiality agreed at ACAS until we have agreed further public statements.”

RMT general secretary Mick Cash added:

“RMT is writing to Merseyrail tonight giving them until 31st August 2018 to agree a deal in principle that underpins the guard guarantee.”‎

Has the proposed deal (and associated changes to driver duties) been discussed with, and agreed by, ASLEF?

Given that Merseytravel picks up the tab for any strikes and is also being asked to agree to changes to what it is buying under the franchise agreement, is it seeking any assurances that if it were to agree to the changes as part of seeking an end to the RMT dispute it will not then simply be followed by a further round of strikes, this time by ASLEF?

 

[jamesst]

Has the proposed deal (and associated changes to driver duties) been discussed with, and agreed by, ASLEF?

Given that Merseytravel picks up the tab for any strikes and is also being asked to agree to changes to what it is buying under the franchise agreement, is it seeking any assurances that if it were to agree to the changes as part of seeking an end to the RMT dispute it will not then simply be followed by a further round of strikes, this time by ASLEF?

Aslef have yet to agree to anything

 

[Goldfish62]

30th July 2018
NEWS RELEASE
Immediate

JOINT STATEMENT ON MERSEYRAIL GUARDS' DISPUTE

Joint statement from RMT, Merseytravel and the Metro Mayor on the Merseyrail guards’ dispute following a meeting today:

“The meeting was scheduled to enable an update on the ACAS process to date from the RMT’s perspective and we discussed the next phase of the negotiations. Today’s discussions have been positive and constructive and we have made good progress in agreeing a roadmap for further discussions and meetings as we work towards a mutually agreeable solution to the dispute.

“All parties are agreed that, whilst these further discussions take place, we will maintain the confidentiality agreed at ACAS until we have agreed further public statements.”

RMT general secretary Mick Cash added:

“RMT is writing to Merseyrail tonight giving them until 31st August 2018 to agree a deal in principle that underpins the guard guarantee.”‎

So they issue a joint statement then one of the parties issues a veiled threat at the end of it. Hmmm.

 

[kw12]

So they issue a joint statement then one of the parties issues a veiled threat at the end of it. Hmmm.

The joint statement says that it is on behalf of "RMT, Merseytravel and the Metro Mayor". No mention of Merseyrail being a party to the statement or even at the meeting.

 

[Goldfish62]

The joint statement says that it is on behalf of "RMT, Merseytravel and the Metro Mayor". No mention of Merseyrail being a party to the statement or even at the meeting.

It's not Merseyrail's dispute. They operate what Merseytravel tells them to. It's the same as London Overground. People still don't seem to understand the relationship between Merseyrail, Merseytravel, Liverpool City Region Combined Authority and the Mayor.

 

[kw12]

It's not Merseyrail's dispute. They operate what Merseytravel tells them to. It's the same as London Overground. People still don't seem to understand the relationship between Merseyrail, Merseytravel, Liverpool City Region Combined Authority and the Mayor.

As you say, it's not Merseyrail's dispute. They have been caught in the middle of the dispute between Merseytravel and RMT. It seems that until this week's meeting between Merseytravel and RMT there has been very little, if any, direct interaction between the two organisations. Perhaps if they had been interacting directly from the start of the dispute the dispute would have been resolved months ago.

 

[northwichcat]

As you say, it's not Merseyrail's dispute. They have been caught in the middle of the dispute between Merseytravel and RMT. It seems that until this week's meeting between Merseytravel and RMT there has been very little, if any, direct interaction between the two organisations. Perhaps if they had been interacting directly from the start of the dispute the dispute would have been resolved months ago.

But it's worth remembering the RMT can't call a strike against Merseytravel because their members don't work for Merseytravel.

 

[Goldfish62]

But it's worth remembering the RMT can't call a strike against Merseytravel because their members don't work for Merseytravel.

Yes, but they can still make Merseytravel the focus of attention instead of Merseyrail. I haven't really seen much of that during this dispute.

 

[Carlisle]

Perhaps if they had been interacting directly from the start of the dispute the dispute would have been resolved months ago.

Given there’s been almost 3 years and what must surely amount to hundreds of hours spent at ACAS by the various TOCs trying to solve their DOO disputes, with no breakthrough so far, I doubt anyone from Merseytravel could have succeeded, where alll others so far have failed, of course they could have simply conceded long ago to the RMTs demands if that’s what you were implying.

 

[northwichcat]

of course they could have simply conceded long ago to the RMTs demands if that’s what you were implying.

Which would have meant one or more of higher fares, other staffing cuts or increased council tax for those in Merseyside.

 

[Goldfish62]

Which would have meant one or more of higher fares, other staffing cuts or increased council tax for those in Merseyside.

Or cuts in bus services, social care education or policing. Unlike central Government there is no magic money tree for local authorities.

 

[northwichcat]

Or cuts in bus services, social care education or policing. Unlike central Government there is no magic money tree for local authorities.

And the central government one is only for Northern Ireland by eliminating what little progress George Osborne made towards cutting the deficit, giving the Conservatives an excuse to impose another 10 years of austerity on whatever areas they want if they remain in power.

 

[Goldfish62]

And the central government one is only for Northern Ireland by eliminating what little progress George Osborne made towards cutting the deficit, giving the Conservatives an excuse to impose another 10 years of austerity on whatever areas they want if they remain in power.

There's a whole list there going back decades, eg, no deregulation of bus services, no franchising or privatisation of rail services.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There's a whole list there going back decades, eg, no deregulation of bus services, no franchising or privatisation of rail services.

They say that the end of the turnpikes was the first step along the road that led to what your posting above so highlights.

 

[387star]

What's new

 

[shakey1961]

So... we should be hearing the outcome of talks today? Or is it another update? Let's hope the dispute is settled.

 

[footprints]

So... we should be hearing the outcome of talks today? Or is it another update? Let's hope the dispute is settled.

Wasn't today just the deadline that Mick Cash set Merseytravel to agree to his demands, despite the RMT supposedly signing up to talks in the first place on the understanding that not having a guard on every train was a possible outcome?

 

[Bungle965]

Sky Breaking News is reporting that an end to the dispute has been agreed to in principle.
Sam

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sky Breaking News is reporting that an end to the dispute has been agreed to in principle.

Interesting. I look forward to seeing what it is (and whether there will be other job losses, e.g. ticket offices, as I'd be amazed if it didn't include at least OBSs who could flog tickets from the quieter stations, or if the PTE has found some additional funding to allow OBSs *and* ticket offices).

If it is OBSs or similar, this must surely also set a precedent for resolving the Northern dispute, given that that would now be *two* DOO disputes (Merseyrail and Southern) resolved in that manner.

If it is actual guards (i.e. retaining full door control, or driver open/guard close), given that Merseyrail was to me the strongest case for DOO on the network (due, for example, to the level boarding which will be introduced) surely this means new DOO must be as good as dead now for the foreseeable future.

 

[hwl]

Interesting. I look forward to seeing what it is (and whether there will be other job losses, e.g. ticket offices, as I'd be amazed if it didn't include at least OBSs who could flog tickets from the quieter stations, or if the PTE has found some additional funding to allow OBSs *and* ticket offices).

If it is OBSs or similar, this must surely also set a precedent for resolving the Northern dispute, given that that would now be *two* DOO disputes (Merseyrail and Southern) resolved in that manner.

Merseytravel need to save several £m a year to cover the laon repayments on the new trains and balance the books. some thign has to give.

 

[OxtedSignaller]

Joint statement from the Combined Authority, Merseyrail and the RMT union
Home > Joint statement from the Combined Authority, Merseyrail and the RMT union

The Liverpool City Region Combined Authority, Merseyrail and the RMT Union have today agreed in principle that, subject to the provision and approval of an appropriate, affordable and sustainable funding package, the new fleet of Merseyrail trains, will have a second member of staff on board the train.

In order to pay for a second member of staff on each train additional funding will now need to be generated. Productivity proposals have come forward from the ACAS process that will cover some of the required funding, however additional means will also need to be considered by all parties, which could include an enhanced crackdown on fare evasion and increased fares. The design of the new trains means that the door control and dispatch of the trains will transfer to the driver. No one currently employed as a guard will lose their employment as a result of the introduction of the new fleet in 2021.

All parties will now undertake the detailed work required to develop a full proposed agreement, which will take some months and will require compromise on all sides. An element of this will be agreeing the role and safety responsibilities of this second member of staff as part of the process. The current business case will need to be revisited. Whilst this takes place and until dialogue has been completed there will be no further industrial action.

Steve Rotheram, Metro Mayor, Liverpool City Region Combined Authority, said:

“I am pleased that we are agreeing in principle that there will be a second member of staff on board the train when the new, state-of-the-art Merseyrail fleet is fully in place in 2021.

“I have always believed that the only way this dispute would be resolved was by all sides sitting down and talking. That’s why I pushed for Merseyrail and the RMT to enter ACAS talks last year and I’m pleased that this approach has got us to where we are today.

“Today’s announcement is huge progress but I also want to be clear that it requires a significant financial commitment and hard choices on all sides. This has to be kept in mind alongside the reality of the substantial reductions in funding that Merseytravel will receive from government over the next ten years.

“I believe this agreement gives us the best chance to successfully deliver and operate the new fleet of trains and therefore is in the best interests of the people of the Liverpool City Region. We will now complete the detailed work to explore and hopefully identify the affordable funding package needed to gain a final agreement.”

Andy Heath, Merseyrail Managing Director said:

“Merseyrail and its shareholders have given our support to this agreement as we have always been clear that any dispute between us and the RMT will only be resolved through talks.

“Today’s announcement is an acknowledgement of that fact.

“The commitment from the RMT to continue the suspension of industrial action during this review period will undoubtedly help maintain the continuity of the current phase of ACAS conciliation which will allow us to plan our operational delivery around the major programme of Merseyrail platform modifications and the major events between now and the end of the year. During this phase of conciliation we will continue our engagement with both the Combined Authority and the RMT as we explore the feasibility and affordability of a solution to keeping a second person on the new trains.”

Mick Cash, General Secretary of the RMT, said.

"Today's agreement in principle is an important and‎ significant development in respect of RMT's long running campaign to retain a guaranteed second, safety-critical member of staff on Merseyrail trains.

"I want to pay tribute to RMT members for their resilience and‎ solidarity throughout this campaign.

"We now await a fully-formed and detailed set of proposals that the we can take back to our Executive and our members."

To me that sounds like the second member of staff will be a safety critical guard more than likely.

 

[northwichcat]

To me that sounds like the second member of staff will be a safety critical guard more than likely.

I'm not sure Mick Cash and the RMT's goal is a 'safety critical guard' on every service and he's calling it a development opposed to saying they've won the fight and it's over. The fact that Merseytravel are saying they don't know how the second member of staff will be funded and that no guards will be made redundant, opposed guard's role and salary will be unaffected, suggests to me the cheapest option of providing a second person on every service will be Merseytravel's preferred option.

 

[OxtedSignaller]

I'm not sure Mick Cash and the RMT's goal is a 'safety critical guard' on every service and he's calling it a development opposed to saying they've won the fight and it's over. The fact that Merseytravel are saying they don't know how the second member of staff will be funded and that no guards will be made redundant, opposed guard's role and salary will be unaffected, suggests to me the cheapest option of providing a second person on every service will be Merseytravel's preferred option.

If that is the case I now would be expecting the RMT to come up with an agreement with GTR and agree recognition rights. That is the precedent which this would now set.

 

[Intermodal]

I just received this from Steve Rotheram, Mayor of Liverpool, in my email. He hints that he believes fares may rise as a result of this agreement. He is clearly very supportive of the RMT.

Agreement in principle reached with the RMT and Merseyrail over guard dispute

I’m writing to let you know that today I have signed an agreement in principle with the RMT and Merseyrail that the new fleet of trains being introduced onto the Merseyrail network from 2020 will have a second staff member on board the train.

This agreement represents huge progress and has been made possible thanks to months of ACAS talks and a willingness on all sides to compromise. I have always believed that the only way this dispute would be resolved was by all sides sitting down and talking. That’s why I pushed for Merseyrail and the RMT to enter ACAS talks last year and I’m pleased that this approach has got us to where we are today.

My focus has always been on getting the best outcome for the people of the Liverpool City Region. The £460 million investment we are making into our new trains is something that we should all be proud of. It’s a great success story for our city region – particularly for those of us in Labour Party, because the trains will be publicly owned for the first time.

Our new fleet will be transformative in the true sense – state-of-the-art design, safe, fast and comfortable - and will be able to carry more people, travel more quickly, while supporting the economic growth of the City Region. They will also have ground breaking unassisted access on every train, making our network the most accessible in the UK and will have CCTV, air conditioning and Wi-Fi.

However, despite the huge improvements that passengers will get from the introduction of these trains I recognise that there has been public concern expressed about the proposed staffing arrangements of the new fleet. I believe today’s agreement addresses those concerns and is the right thing for our City Region.

Today’s announcement is a real step forward but I also want to be clear that it represents a huge financial commitment. This has to be kept in mind alongside the reality of the Tory Government cutting almost one million pounds per year from the amount of rail funding Merseytravel receives locally, for the next ten years.

Therefore, this agreement is contingent on further consensus being reached as to a sustainable funding package. All sides – the Combined Authority, the RMT and Merseyrail - have agreed to play their part in achieving this, but it will require tough choices by all and will likely mean our rail network is more expensive. I hope we can count on your support as we work through these remaining issues over the coming months.

I will be speaking at a number of CLP meetings in the next few weeks where I will be happy to talk to you about this issue in more detail. In the meantime, please don’t hesitate to contact me if I can help with anything.

Best wishes
Steve

 

[northwichcat]

I just received this from Steve Rotheram, Mayor of Liverpool, in my email. He hints that he believes fares may rise as a result of this agreement.

The agreement is that fares will rise and that they'll be a crackdown on fare evasion (presumably the productivity reference to the second person.) There's a rumour circulating on Twitter that single tickets will increase by 15p in price and returns/day tickets by up to 30p, on top of existing planned fare rises, to pay for the second member of staff. If season tickets increase by the same level then regular passengers will pay around £70 extra each year to keep the second member of staff.

 

[Intermodal]

The agreement is that fares will rise and that they'll be a crackdown on fare evasion (presumably the productivity reference to the second person.) There's a rumour circulating on Twitter that single tickets will increase by 15p in price and returns/day tickets by up to 30p, on top of existing planned fare rises, to pay for the second member of staff. If season tickets increase by the same level then regular passengers will pay around £70 extra each year to keep the second member of staff.

The public overwhelmingly wanted to keep the guard, though, right? I guess it's highly likely they'd like to keep the guard and not pay for them, too...