West Lothian buses

[Gingerbus1991]

Writing was on the wall, when people made it clear they couldn't make the switch because First was cheaper. Other point is Buses on all front going in and out of Edinburgh off peak is dire, Im still surprised First brought back the 15min headway on the Broxburn - City route. I did say 275 with 5 people on it to the gyle Whoooooo.....

The only way lothian wouldve made a dent in firsts numbers would be the fares being noticeably cheaper and the fare/ticket structure being similar to firsts, obviously first operations in livi are better than it was in east lothian, apparently lothian went from 40000 traveling per week upto around 100000 journeys a week with ecb, perhaps they exaggerate alittle

 

[overthewater]

The only way lothian wouldve made a dent in firsts numbers would be the fares being noticeably cheaper and the fare/ticket structure being similar to firsts, obviously first operations in livi are better than it was in east lothian, apparently lothian went from 40000 traveling per week upto around 100000 journeys a week with ecb, perhaps they exaggerate alittle

How many is City passengers? Remember aswell they killed off the 15 so some passengers were forced over to LCB, on top of that the local council cut its sub for discounted rail travel pushing more people on to the buses.

 

[In Focus]

The only way lothian wouldve made a dent in firsts numbers would be the fares being noticeably cheaper and the fare/ticket structure being similar to firsts, obviously first operations in livi are better than it was in east lothian, apparently lothian went from 40000 traveling per week upto around 100000 journeys a week with ecb, perhaps they exaggerate alittle

First had invested in a modern fleet with Wi-Fi, charging ,contactless etc , the fare structure based on multi journeys daily and weekly tickets were good value, the East coast were never given such a chance to compete .
The network change had many flaws without doubt however dismantling the 27 and 28 in the form they operated was not one of them as they had proven to be a substantial loss maker over many years ,due to rail compliance rules First had no option bit to operate them, I think LCB will soon find out they will have the same issues .

 

[overthewater]

27/28 was awful and should have been thrown in the bin 4 years ago with the last of the controls come off. Time keeping coming out of Edinburgh made it impossible.

If I was Lothian and clean broad and start again.
Revised Route:

New 48: Edinburgh - Linlithgow every 30mins
275: Gyle - Broxburn via housing estates - Fastlink - St johns H - bus stations a loop around sky campus? Every 30mins
Try and win the 40 council contract.
NewX50 Livingston - Edinburgh Hourly
40/50 would be 30mins service to Hermiston.

New peak service:
Livingston - M8 - Maybury - Granton.
Livingston - M8 - Hermiston - Gyle
Livingston - Sighthill - Gyle.

Bolt it on to Edinburgh network, try and go after the car drivers at peak times? Thoughts anyone...

 

[Gingerbus1991]

27/28 was awful and should have been thrown in the bin 4 years ago with the last of the controls come off. Time keeping coming out of Edinburgh made it impossible.

If I was Lothian and clean broad and start again.
Revised Route:

New 48: Edinburgh - Linlithgow every 30mins
275: Gyle - Broxburn via housing estates - Fastlink - St johns H - bus stations a loop around sky campus? Every 30mins
Try and win the 40 council contract.
NewX50 Livingston - Edinburgh Hourly
40/50 would be 30mins service to Hermiston.

New peak service:
Livingston - M8 - Maybury - Granton.
Livingston - M8 - Hermiston - Gyle
Livingston - Sighthill - Gyle.

Bolt it on to Edinburgh network, try and go after the car drivers at peak times? Thoughts anyone...

The M8 spur is nose to tail at rush hour...

 

[overthewater]

Old saying, Go were the car go..

 

[TheEastCoaster]

27/28 was awful and should have been thrown in the bin 4 years ago with the last of the controls come off. Time keeping coming out of Edinburgh made it impossible.

If I was Lothian and clean broad and start again.
Revised Route:

New 48: Edinburgh - Linlithgow every 30mins
275: Gyle - Broxburn via housing estates - Fastlink - St johns H - bus stations a loop around sky campus? Every 30mins
Try and win the 40 council contract.
NewX50 Livingston - Edinburgh Hourly
40/50 would be 30mins service to Hermiston.

New peak service:
Livingston - M8 - Maybury - Granton.
Livingston - M8 - Hermiston - Gyle
Livingston - Sighthill - Gyle.

Bolt it on to Edinburgh network, try and go after the car drivers at peak times? Thoughts anyone...

While I think the current Lothian X27/X28 route to West Lothian is better and faster than the original carnation I think it needs a better frequency, especially for the likes of Kirknewton or Wilkieston which get stuck with an hourly service.

I do think a LC variation of the 40 would be a very good idea personally, from what I read it’s a popular service already, if Lothian got their paws on the contract it could be even more.

I imagine the 48 would be like the current 38 route as far as Linlithgow? I dig it, maybe make it limited stop through Glasgow road and it’d Be a solid service, the folk in Kirkliston would die for a direct Lothian service, it is puzzling how that was not considered.

I might of mentioned this before but I think an X20 from Edinburgh to Whitburn would be a good hit, running direct from the city to Broxburn and then Bathgate (omit Livingston) and then via Armadale and then Whitburn. would give the folk in Bathgate a faster direct service to the city as well as a direct city link for Newbridge, Broxburn, Armadale and Whitburn. also Revise the 275 timetable to help connect with the X20 onward travel to Livingston

I’d leave the 280/287 for now since they are still new (any word on how the first day in service went?) introduce a new service linking Livingston with West Calder, Fauldhouse and Whitburn.

Also cheekily bring over the 20/63 over to LC, granted both routes are contracted so I doubt it will work, but who knows.

 

[overthewater]

287 is backwards, its like lothian are just throwing out seeds, It should not go via howden, it should go via Morrisons plus its goes the wrong way around Bathgate Town centre, and it really should got to the Train station at peak times.

X27/28 just seem to carry oaps from the Bathgate to Knightsbridge.

 

[In Focus]

While I think the current Lothian X27/X28 route to West Lothian is better and faster than the original carnation I think it needs a better frequency, especially for the likes of Kirknewton or Wilkieston which get stuck with an hourly service.

I do think a LC variation of the 40 would be a very good idea personally, from what I read it’s a popular service already, if Lothian got their paws on the contract it could be even more.

I imagine the 48 would be like the current 38 route as far as Linlithgow? I dig it, maybe make it limited stop through Glasgow road and it’d Be a solid service, the folk in Kirkliston would die for a direct Lothian service, it is puzzling how that was not considered.

I might of mentioned this before but I think an X20 from Edinburgh to Whitburn would be a good hit, running direct from the city to Broxburn and then Bathgate (omit Livingston) and then via Armadale and then Whitburn. would give the folk in Bathgate a faster direct service to the city as well as a direct city link for Newbridge, Broxburn, Armadale and Whitburn. also Revise the 275 timetable to help connect with the X20 onward travel to Livingston

I’d leave the 280/287 for now since they are still new (any word on how the first day in service went?) introduce a new service linking Livingston with West Calder, Fauldhouse and Whitburn.

Also cheekily bring over the 20/63 over to LC, granted both routes are contracted so I doubt it will work, but who knows.

287 is backwards, its like lothian are just throwing out seeds, It should not go via howden, it should go via Morrisons plus its goes the wrong way around Bathgate Town centre, and it really should got to the Train station at peak times.

X27/28 just seem to carry oaps from the Bathgate to Knightsbridge.

The 287 in that form has no chance of succeeding , unless like the one I seen this morning going totally the wrong route lol ,the 280 will do fine as it stands running just ahead of 25 and I expect First to move times as LCB have placed the 280 to run 5 minutes ahead of the 25 , something that should be deemed as aggressive at registration you would think ! So First will either alter their current times or insert another bus into cycle to address the timing issue. I still doubt with dead mileage and changeover it will be massively profitable though.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

The 287 in that form has no chance of succeeding , unless like the one I seen this morning going totally the wrong route lol ,the 280 will do fine as it stands running just ahead of 25 and I expect First to move times as LCB have placed the 280 to run 5 minutes ahead of the 25 , something that should be deemed as aggressive at registration you would think ! So First will either alter their current times or insert another bus into cycle to address the timing issue. I still doubt with dead mileage and changeover it will be massively profitable though.

I have a good feeling about phase 2, so far all the comments about it seem positive from what I’ve read, especially linking with St Johns which was a smart move!

Recent post from LCB is they revised the fare zone for the Tesco Distribution Centre so that it rests in both zones, so it’d be £1.70 for Bathgate-Armadale residents.

Unexpected tbh but it’s a start, so they must be listening and wanting to keep customers as much as possible. At this point anything’s possible

 

[In Focus]

I have a good feeling about phase 2, so far all the comments about it seem positive from what I’ve read, especially linking with St Johns which was a smart move!

Recent post from LCB is they revised the fare zone for the Tesco Distribution Centre so that it rests in both zones, so it’d be £1.70 for Bathgate-Armadale residents.

Unexpected tbh but it’s a start, so they must be listening and wanting to keep customers as much as possible. At this point anything’s possible

Strange one @ St johns after telling First that too many buses using the grounds and causing disruption to allow LCB entry with All services !! Kind of stinks to be honest .
Always expected the 280 to be the most popular in short term although popular enough long term I have my doubts . Although as you say at this point anything is indeed possible.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

In livingston for a spot of shopping, past both a 24 and 27 and both dead, how are any companys in livi making revenue outside peak time?

 

[In Focus]

In livingston for a spot of shopping, past both a 24 and 27 and both dead, how are any companys in livi making revenue outside peak time?

None , way too many buses , way to few passengers bit that's West Lothian and even what City classes as "peak " just does not exist in West Lothian.
Another footnote on visiting Livingston Centre be very careful the bus hub has now turned into a very dangerous place that is way overcrowded with vehicles and only a matter of time before an inevitable accident happens I'm afraid. It was never designed to facilitate so many vehicles and requires an immediate rethink before it's too late .

 

[In Focus]

In livingston for a spot of shopping, past both a 24 and 27 and both dead, how are any companys in livi making revenue outside peak time?

The 27 must be in the running for worst route ever thought up!! An absolute disgrace and the fact anyone within First thought it was anything other than that is quite an alarming thought .

 

[overthewater]

27 is designed by the passengers so their to blame... There is plenty of room for the buses if there just know where to put them. stance D has room for 3 buses, while A also has room for 3 buses if there just moved up a bit.

 

[In Focus]

27 is designed by the passengers so their to blame... There is plenty of room for the buses if there just know where to put them. stance D has room for 3 buses, while A also has room for 3 buses if there just moved up a bit.

Which passengers designed it ? It was down as part of the network review which was done by a company based in the Isle of Wight based on stats from previous network, I'm convinced it's based on a giant Scaletrix ! And whoever thought going onto A71 to get it facing correct way deserves a slap on the neck for stupidity !!
As for Livingston it's an accident waiting to happen 2 buses max at each stand with proper timing it may be workable but LCB decision to run on First times and First stupidly asking buses to sit for over 5 minutes means at times 4 and 5 buses trying to get into a stance and before 10am the added nonsense of HGV vehicles unloading !!

 

[Gingerbus1991]

None , way too many buses , way to few passengers bit that's West Lothian and even what City classes as "peak " just does not exist in West Lothian.
Another footnote on visiting Livingston Centre be very careful the bus hub has now turned into a very dangerous place that is way overcrowded with vehicles and only a matter of time before an inevitable accident happens I'm afraid. It was never designed to facilitate so many vehicles and requires an immediate rethink before it's too late .

Stagecoach's x51 seems to be doin not to bad however, lothian are wasting money as I see it, even building a new depot at newbridge, is that correct?

I've said before and I'd say it again lothians city reputation isnt reflected in other areas where most dont like traveling in buses and where most have been lost to the convenience and true comfort of cars or the quickness of the train, east coast buses has been abit of a lucky win for lothian.

Simply put most will not give up there cars so easily, I reckon even if it means people go as far as moving jobs or simply not goin to edinburgh at all

 

[overthewater]

27 was redesigned after a passengers kick up hell at this meetings, Stagecoach service is just doing fine. Yes Lothian a building a new depot but it's for Motorcoach and n43 aswell. Has one one else notice the cut backs in the midlothian area since the trains started? Traveling to Birkenside, well one hour on slow lothian bus or train within 20min..

 

[In Focus]

27 was redesigned after a passengers kick up hell at this meetings, Stagecoach service is just doing fine. Yes Lothian a building a new depot but it's for Motorcoach and n43 aswell. Has one one else notice the cut backs in the midlothian area since the trains started? Traveling to Birkenside, well one hour on slow lothian bus or train within 20min..

The 27 is as it was when first new network and I can assure the kick up and public meeting in Dedridge happened after that , the consultation in Craigshill that happened lead to the X23 being sent there (and onto Strathbrock health centre ) to retain a link to Edinburgh and 27 was sent to Ladywell Inveralmond school to accommodate school children twice a day after meeting in Craigshill .
X51 was how First should have operated Livingston to Glasgow but they turned it into a tour of West Lothian and journey time if almost 2 hours from Glasgow!! Good luck to Stagecoach and I hope it is well used .

 

[overthewater]

Im sure the route around the town centre was altered? Also yesterday Citylink 900 starting going into Deer park at late night and over night, which allowed stagecoach tickets to be used. Just a shame there isnt 7pm coach

 

[livi man]

first sit at Livingston for 5 minutes because the plan was to have driver's break down the centre but fell through

 

[livi man]

the new Blackridge service looks dead

 

[In Focus]

first sit at Livingston for 5 minutes because the plan was to have driver's break down the centre but fell through

Never got past the talked about stage,all premises looked at were unsuitable for various reasons .
The idea of sitting for up to 5 minutes was to allow passengers from other buses 26 /27 to get connections to the City on 25 /23 /24 Services, but with LCB now also us g the Terminus it's becoming farcical at times.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Stagecoach's x51 seems to be doin not to bad however, lothian are wasting money as I see it, even building a new depot at newbridge, is that correct?

I've said before and I'd say it again lothians city reputation isnt reflected in other areas where most dont like traveling in buses and where most have been lost to the convenience and true comfort of cars or the quickness of the train, east coast buses has been abit of a lucky win for lothian.

Simply put most will not give up there cars so easily, I reckon even if it means people go as far as moving jobs or simply not goin to edinburgh at all

My thought is they were looking for a new depot anyway for the motercoachs which occurred before the expansion right? I’m sure Lothian will make the money back in no time, considering how many operations they have right now.

Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t Firsts fares cheaper In East Lothian before East Coast took over? I didn’t recall an uproar back when ECB launched, (despite first already withdrawing at this point). After 2 years though and with 8 services in its network they must be unstoppable at this point, surely that must be what they’re thinking with West Lothian. I know they must of anticipated it wouldn’t be easy but it’s 50-50 at this point, First have cheaper fares and more services but Lothian have the advantage of cross network travel, as someone who uses ECB alot I see the cheaper advantage of not buying two different day tickets for different operators and one singular ticket to use on two services, and I think that’s their trump card. but the war is still on it seems..

the new Blackridge service looks dead

It’s only been 4 days, plus I’m sure they must have some passangers boarding at times of the day, give them time

 

[In Focus]

My thought is they were looking for a new depot anyway for the motercoachs which occurred before the expansion right? I’m sure Lothian will make the money back in no time, considering how many operations they have right now.

Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t Firsts fares cheaper In East Lothian before East Coast took over? I didn’t recall an uproar back when ECB launched, (despite first already withdrawing at this point). After 2 years though and with 8 services in its network they must be unstoppable at this point, surely that must be what they’re thinking with West Lothian. I know they must of anticipated it wouldn’t be easy but it’s 50-50 at this point, First have cheaper fares and more services but Lothian have the advantage of cross network travel, as someone who uses ECB alot I see the cheaper advantage of not buying two different day tickets for different operators and one singular ticket to use on two services, and I think that’s their trump card. but the war is still on it seems..



It’s only been 4 days, plus I’m sure they must have some passangers boarding at times of the day, give them time

Been 9 weeks on x27 /x28 and they are still running around 90% empty .
Do not confuse West Lothian with Edinburgh or East Lothian for public transport,, different ball game completely.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

My thought is they were looking for a new depot anyway for the motercoachs which occurred before the expansion right? I’m sure Lothian will make the money back in no time, considering how many operations they have right now.

Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t Firsts fares cheaper In East Lothian before East Coast took over? I didn’t recall an uproar back when ECB launched, (despite first already withdrawing at this point). After 2 years though and with 8 services in its network they must be unstoppable at this point, surely that must be what they’re thinking with West Lothian. I know they must of anticipated it wouldn’t be easy but it’s 50-50 at this point, First have cheaper fares and more services but Lothian have the advantage of cross network travel, as someone who uses ECB alot I see the cheaper advantage of not buying two different day tickets for different operators and one singular ticket to use on two services, and I think that’s their trump card. but the war is still on it seems..



It’s only been 4 days, plus I’m sure they must have some passangers boarding at times of the day, give them time

Not sure that cross network travel is on mosts needs nowadays, I dout many will have to go from livingston to musselburgh for example with a £7.50 day ticket for instance, albeit being able to use the 275 then transfer to a tram sounds a solid plan.

When I drove for lothian I always thought it was mad that the 63 lothian subsidised service was able to charge £1.60 singles and £4 day tickets yet the 43 was £2.60/£5 because it was essentially a green bus.

To this day I reckon the 43 could probably operate with the current £1.70 singles.

Your nearly as quick and cheaper of taking the 63 to the gyle and jumping on the tram to the city centre and you save a quid.

 

[herb21]

To this day I reckon the 43 could probably operate with the current £1.70 singles.

Your nearly as quick and cheaper of taking the 63 to the gyle and jumping on the tram to the city centre and you save a quid.

The 63 only runs about once an hour and depending on the time of day to get from somewhere reasonably central in Queensferry to the say Princes Street will take you well over an hour doing it on the 43/x43 can be under 40 minutes and is regularly 45min in traffic. The route timings look worse if you get on very early in the loop round Queensferry for the 43. The real problem for the 63 is that it is very much a plan your life round the bus service, while the 43 is for a lot of the day close to turn up and go or at least not stress about it.

That said, given the loads I see quite far either side of peak I think that the 43 could be viable as a £1.70 service although almost none of the passengers I see buy that. its day tickets, rider-cards and oap.

 

[route101]

Bring back the Bus Station at Livi ?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Been 9 weeks on x27 /x28 and they are still running around 90% empty .
Do not confuse West Lothian with Edinburgh or East Lothian for public transport,, different ball game completely.

I mostly only see them empty in the evenings with a few passangers, I have noticed more people using the services during the day though so can’t say it’s not underused,

Different I agree, I’m not saying it’s the exact same but if Lothian could transform East Lothian I’m confident they will do the same for West Lothian, otherwise why would they bother?

Not sure that cross network travel is on mosts needs nowadays, I dout many will have to go from livingston to musselburgh for example with a £7.50 day ticket for instance, albeit being able to use the 275 then transfer to a tram sounds a solid plan.

When I drove for lothian I always thought it was mad that the 63 lothian subsidised service was able to charge £1.60 singles and £4 day tickets yet the 43 was £2.60/£5 because it was essentially a green bus.

To this day I reckon the 43 could probably operate with the current £1.70 singles.

Your nearly as quick and cheaper of taking the 63 to the gyle and jumping on the tram to the city centre and you save a quid.

I agree it’s not everyone’s priority but the fact you have the option to do so is pretty good, especially for one off trips. I know most folk will probably just use the services to commute to work in the city,

I think extending the m-ticket option to the end of the year was a good plan, though if they wanted to attract folk more they should of kept the prices permanent.

If they were to drop the Queensferry fare to 1.70 (which I doubt sadly) it would mean the whole CityWest fare zone would be revised or the 43 would be run under a normal LB Service, since i don’t see the 63 going to LCB anytime soon, but as mentioned most of the users use daytickets and bus passes anyway.

I used to do that when I wanted to go to Queensferry back when the 40 was run because I wanted the free travel. Though I don’t need to anymore

 

[In Focus]

I mostly only see them empty in the evenings with a few passangers, I have noticed more people using the services during the day though so can’t say it’s not underused,

Different I agree, I’m not saying it’s the exact same but if Lothian could transform East Lothian I’m confident they will do the same for West Lothian, otherwise why would they bother?




I agree it’s not everyone’s priority but the fact you have the option to do so is pretty good, especially for one off trips. I know most folk will probably just use the services to commute to work in the city,

I think extending the m-ticket option to the end of the year was a good plan, though if they wanted to attract folk more they should of kept the prices permanent.

If they were to drop the Queensferry fare to 1.70 (which I doubt sadly) it would mean the whole CityWest fare zone would be revised or the 43 would be run under a normal LB Service, since i don’t see the 63 going to LCB anytime soon, but as mentioned most of the users use daytickets and bus passes anyway.

I used to do that when I wanted to go to Queensferry back when the 40 was run because I wanted the free travel. Though I don’t need to anymore

Their figures will show exactly how underused they are and believe you me they won't make for good reading for those in charge of LCB .