Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern

[Geeves]

I can only think the risk behind the project failing is already high, throwing in a complete rewire would have no doubt delayed the project even further. In addition modern fly by wire or computer controls on trains do not make them any less prone to break downs.

it took them 3 years to rewire/re-control a tram on the Manchester Metrolink and find the faults.

 

[AM9]

Reports in Rail Engineer and The Railway Magazine both showed new control cubicles. I don't understand, why do trains still need large control cubicles when we can now hold powerful computers in our hands?

"Powerful computers" don't necessarily use megawatts of power, whereas electric switchgear for controlling traction motors that do, need a bit more space than your janha can provide.

 

[LowLevel]

Launch day today at the GCR so it is moving along.

 

[anthony263]

How long before videos start appearing onli e or we start getting comments from those who have ridden on it

 

[anthony263]

Hopefully testing goes well and production speeds up as the they are urgently needed by northern and keolis

 

[Bornin1980s]

"Powerful computers" don't necessarily use megawatts of power, whereas electric switchgear for controlling traction motors that do, need a bit more space than your janha can provide.

So the computer processors are just a small part of the control gear? Do brand new trains still have control cubicles?

 

[hwl]

So the computer processors are just a small part of the control gear? Do brand new trains still have control cubicles?

Processors are tiny part of the control gear but everything is split up with a lot of the computing in one place with networked controllers locally, all the traction and power electronics in huge box underneath (see Aventra and Desiro City grey boxes) e.g. the traction electroncis box in this pic:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/crossrail-class-345-takes-shape.129896/

 

[edwin_m]

Reports in Rail Engineer and The Railway Magazine both showed new control cubicles. I don't understand, why do trains still need large control cubicles when we can now hold powerful computers in our hands?

What's in the cubicles may not be computers. The Rail Engineer article talks about relocating the heater contactors, so they may well be in this cabinet. There's also mention of a static converter for units with air cooling/conditioning, and extra switchgear to select between third rail and diesel. All these will be relatively large items.

 

[gordonjahn]

16 minutes ago on Twitter: https://twitter.com/tobythetram/status/1047520208389332993?s=21

 

[a_c_skinner]

A lot of people won't like that.

I do of course.

 

[EE Andy b1]

Well that's more like it! Horns not bad neither.

So at some point these Flex units will have to do about 1500 miles or so trouble free running before service or does that not apply?

 

[a_c_skinner]

A hundred round trips on the GC. I'd want to do them all on there, ideally after dark.

 

[Bornin1980s]

That was pretty fast. Now, can I see starting on a steep grade?

 

[507021]

16 minutes ago on Twitter: https://twitter.com/tobythetram/status/1047520208389332993?s=21

Excellent.

 

[trash80]

Fantastic, its great to see the project really hit it's stride

 

[CosherB]

Depending on who you believe, it was doing 60 or 75 mph. Acceleration up to the linespeed reported as 'impressive'.

This might actually end up a success.

 

[tbtc]

Good news - and thanks to @gordonjahn for the link.

As I've said on other threads, we are going to have a surplus of 100mph "regional" DMUs, which means we end up cascading them to "local" routes - trains like 170s struggle when you ask them to do start/stop routes where the train rarely gets above 50mph - we also have plenty of 1980s EMUs going spare over the next few years - I'd love it if we could order a batch of four coach "150s" as there are plenty of busy routes where eighty metre 75mph trains are just what is needed.

So, putting the traditional grumbles about "cast-off" stock to one side, this test on the GCR is a potentially huge step forward - if you can get your bi-mode EMUs onto the market (ahead of the potential for converting 321s or 458s or what not) then you could be very popular. Bad news for Viva, of course, but if they hadn't pushed their 230s so well then Porterbrook had to innovate.

 

[js1000]

Good news - and thanks to @gordonjahn for the link.

As I've said on other threads, we are going to have a surplus of 100mph "regional" DMUs, which means we end up cascading them to "local" routes - trains like 170s struggle when you ask them to do start/stop routes where the train rarely gets above 50mph - we also have plenty of 1980s EMUs going spare over the next few years - I'd love it if we could order a batch of four coach "150s" as there are plenty of busy routes where eighty metre 75mph trains are just what is needed.

So, putting the traditional grumbles about "cast-off" stock to one side, this test on the GCR is a potentially huge step forward - if you can get your bi-mode EMUs onto the market (ahead of the potential for converting 321s or 458s or what not) then you could be very popular. Bad news for Viva, of course, but if they hadn't pushed their 230s so well then Porterbrook had to innovate.

The 150s are horrid. Once the Pacers are retired, these will be the units that will incur the wrath of passengers instead.

It's good to see the 769 actually move. I hope it goes well when it is introduced in service. If so, Northern may be interested in a few more as a short term fix.

 

[tbtc]

The 150s are horrid. Once the Pacers are retired, these will be the units that will incur the wrath of passengers instead

We've got a lot of unremarkable services where a four coach 75mph DMU would be fine - nobody is going to love a basic functional mass-market low speed DMU - people like fast/ quirky/ unique trains - but a 769 should be fine (if Porterbrook can get these trains to be reliable).

I'm not saying 150s are my favourite train - the low 3+2 seats aren't great - but there are plenty of routes where they are appropriate - so plenty of places where a 769 would be good enough* without the added bonus of them being bi-mode and therefore able to operate through central Manchester etc without diesel fumes upsetting people.

(* - good enough, not perfect but good enough)

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd love it if we could order a batch of four coach "150s" as there are plenty of busy routes where eighty metre 75mph trains are just what is needed.

Isn't that near enough exactly what a 769 is, with the added benefit of a pantograph?

 

[sprinterguy]

Isn't that near enough exactly what a 769 is, with the added benefit of a pantograph?

Yes, that's exactly what tbtc is saying.

The 150s are horrid. Once the Pacers are retired, these will be the units that will incur the wrath of passengers instead.

The South West Trains class 455 refurb demonstrated over ten years ago that it's perfectly possible to produce a suitable 21st century commuter train within the 20 metre mark 3 bodyshell. The same goes for the more recent class 321 Renatus project. The class 769s have that same potential with regards interior ambience, though sadly it's highly unlikely that Arriva Northern would be interested in such a high quality refurbishment.

 

[Cardiff123]

If the testing goes well, how quickly can Porterbrook start to get 769s off the production line and actually fulfil their orders?
I'm guessing we are still many months off seeing any 769s in revenue earning service

 

[Cowley]

My, this thread has changed its tone after seeing a clip of a 769 flying past photographers on diesel power this week.
Just remember though. It could’ve been pushed up to speed by D123 just out of camera shot...

 

[anamyd]

Ha ha. Yeah, I want to hear more MAN (not "Cummings") engine sound. Yay, a 7 second video! It's a Vine! Nice tones.

 

[Cowley]

Ha ha. Yeah, I want to hear more MAN (not "Cummings") engine sound. Yay, a 7 second video! It's a Vine! Nice tones.

What’s a ‘Vine’ anamyd?

 

[anamyd]

What’s a ‘Vine’ anamyd?

A video posted to the former app/service of the same name. All videos were 7 seconds long (actually 6, but reuploads to YouTube were rounded up to 7), same as this 769 clip

 

[Cowley]

A video posted to the former app/service of the same name. All videos were 7 seconds long (actually 6, but reuploads to YouTube were rounded up to 7), same as this 769 clip

Well you learn something new.
Thanks for that.
I shall make my children look up from their cornflakes in confusion when I drop that one into the conversation at breakfast tomorrow...

 

[anamyd]

Well you learn something new.
Thanks for that.
I shall make my children look up from their cornflakes in confusion when I drop that one into the conversation at breakfast tomorrow...

 

[Bornin1980s]

769 in a Vine. Len Goodman would have liked it; better than Sigourney Weaver with a beaver!

 

[sprinterguy]

My, this thread has changed its tone after seeing a clip of a 769 flying past photographers on diesel power this week.
Just remember though. It could’ve been pushed up to speed by D123 just out of camera shot...

They can be fickle lot in here, can't they? Just you wait for the wails of "I told you it was doomed from the start, DOOMED I say!" as soon as the initial unit suffers an inconsequential electrical fire or somesuch.